Paul Davis &lt;paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com&gt; writes: Well, I am sure the non-visual interface problem for multi-track recording is also unsolved. However, Kai managed to write a multi-track recording tool which is massively useful to the blind. And it even has a GUI, although optional. DOnt get me wrong. I totally understand that visual interfaces are useful to some kind of people, but * Alternative, scriptable, interface have their advantage even for the non-blind * Designing your app more modular will make it easier to extend it later. I know, we should be hacking alternative interfaces ourselves, and we do this when we are given the opportunity. But last time I was motivated to do some rewrite work on a LAD GUI tool, it was so highly interwoven with the underlying Toolkit in use, that it was no fun, and I gave up after some hours of headache producing source-code review. I am convinced that if we actually allow us to use the functionality you describe, we will invent a interface which is useful to us. It is totally clear that I can not expect from Free Software coders that they find the optimal interface for the blind. But if we are given the ability to somehow use the underlying functionality, we can investigate this. I've already written ecasound.el. I am sure I can come up with some interface to an interesting audio app, if I am given the ability to do so. What I essential do is asking developers to implement their 30% backend engine in a well-defined library, which can be used by their 70% GUI, and by other code which might want to. -- CYa, Mario | Debian Developer <URL:http://debian.org/> | Get my public key via finger mlang(a)db.debian.org | 1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44

--- Mario Lang &lt;mlang(a)delysid.org&gt; wrote: I totally agree with this point. I've looked at a couple of apps myself to see how easy it would be to rip off the GUI and plug in a different type of interface with varying levels of success. In my day job I'm entangled in the MVC paradigm for web development using J2EE. I think it's cool to see some audio developers trying to achieve the same thing with native audio apps. I'm not blind, but I am severely visually impaired. Many of the interfaces that are currently out there for Linux and other platforms especially make it difficult for me to work quickly and efficiently. To me the optimal interface for blind and visually impaired people is not a command-line text interface, but some hardware interface that doesn't yet exist. Typing in track numbers and locations on a numeric keypad is OK, but typing mix envelopes is not all that useful, IMHO. I'd much prefer to use faders and such for that. If only there was an intuitive hardware interface for editing waveforms and drawing envelopes and EQ curves, etc. Again, the MVC approach is good b/c when such an interface comes to exist it can simply be plugged in to the audio engine. Again, I really agree with this idea in principle. Greg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

as they say .... bwahahahahahaha !!! ardour's mixer might have 80-300 widgets on screen. the idea that you can navigate between these with anything other than a custom navigation system is laughable. the ATK stuff is clearly targetted at "regular" apps with on just 10's of widgets in a window, if that. --p

On Monday 15 September 2003 11:18, Paul Davis wrote: I worked with a system at a radio news network in the mid/late 90s that essentially did just this. It was called "DCart". http://www.abc.net.au/olympics_1996/dcart.htm The system could capture, playout, cut and paste edit and do all the other operations you'd expect of an audio editor. It was also multiuser, meaning that the entire staff had access to the full audio repository. It used a central host CPU with dumb terminals attached via RS-232. It ran under one of the proprietary Unices (can't remember which flavor, I think one of the SVR4 variants). And, it worked well! So well, in fact, that when they "upgraded" a few years later to an M$ based system with a full GUI, many of the editors griped about it, saying the new system was a lot less efficient and usable. Cheers! |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Director of Broadcast Software Development | | Salem Radio Labs | http://www.salemradiolabs.com/ | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | There's never time to do it right, but there's always time | | to do it over. | | -- Meskimen's Law | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Hi Mario, Monday 15 September 2003 16:43 skrev Mario Lang: Yeah, I know the situation. I'm not blind myself but I used to work in the disability industry. Providing, mainly, adaptations for computerized workplaces. And needless to say there are lots of apps that are totally inaccessible to blind people. This is getting rather of topic, but I thought I'd just mention this app Drums++ that popped up the other week. http://dpp.mikekohn.net/ It's a programmable pattern sequencer (as in, you feed it with source code). It's mainly for drums, but I imagine it could be used for any kinds of sounds. So... if you're into programming, this might be a really cool utility. It has a C-like syntax and seems very nice for it's purpose (haven't tried it myself yet, been meaning to). /Robert

Hi list, mlang(a)delysid.org wrote: [..] Just curious - have you already tried asking the author if he would consider changing the license accordingly? There have already been a lot of programs where the author (often unknowingly) chose a non-DFSG compliant license, but when asked to correct it, did so quickly so that his application could be adopted into the Debian pool. Greetings, Frank