On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 08:07:47AM +0200, Juhana Sadeharju wrote: (not speaking for anyone but myself here)... the problem is that people are likely to take that question the wrong way. (if you want to be get your point across, you should strive to convey your message as clearly as possible in the most robust manner possible). so when you say "could somebody please write these routines for me", my reaction is to think that this person feels their time is more valuable than others' time and that this person thinks other people should stop what they're doing to attend to his goal. (i don't believe you intended this which is why i didn't actually put a nasty comment there: i wanted to convey though that i found the behaviour socially unacceptable). asking for hints (as you did) was probably the right way to pose the question. many times when you ask for hints, someone will pull out some example code--they'll basically write it for you. but i don't think asking people outright to write the code for you is likely to engender a positive response. (especially when the recipient of the message doesn't know of or share your goal). people are more willing to help someone who they see put his effort into the task for which he seeks help. if you don't want to spend your time and energy doing it, why should i? you can say, "it would be more efficient; we could get so much more done." and that may well be true, but you're dealing with *people*, not with columns in a spreadsheet. show other people that you understand this. (do you mean this http://slashdot.org/features/98/10/13/1423253.shtml ?) they should be encouraged to ask if those algorithms and utils exist, and if so how might they find them. they should not be encouraged to request other people to spend time doing what they want done. the approach you advocate doesn't scale...what happens the next time you need an algorithm but can't be bothered to look it up? what happens when the expert leaves and isn't around to help you anymore? to summarize: communities have certain protocols and rules of etiquette. (where i'm from you don't ask someone else to do your work for you, because you can't be bothered or because it would be easier and faster for you. i think this is extremely reasonable). people don't merely exist to be as efficient as possible. if you fail to recognize these facts or if you treat people in ways that make it appear that you don't understand these facts, then you should not be surprised if you encounter criticism. we *might* end up with all sorts of stuff if we change our attitudes, but who said my goal was to finish software? pompously yours, rob ---- Robert Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: async(a)cc.gatech.edu