15 Jul
2010
15 Jul
'10
9:27 p.m.
Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
midi master -> special program
ddr pad -> special program
special program -> hydrogen
I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master tempo. aseqdump shows
the tempo messages x times a second.
I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr pad (usb gamepad)
and assign different timed midi patterns to the buttons, so for example:
if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold down or toggle a
button
if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd have a basic drum and
snare beat when both buttons are held down or toggled, of course i'd like to
be able to have multiple patterns bound per button as well
button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36, then rest for the
remaining 3 beats
1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
2 -
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth
Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a live solo
performance could easily be changed on the fly, leaving hands free to play
guitar.
Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about it?
If I don't find anything I want to hack something together, so a primer on
midi tempo sync, and how to program with it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Nathanael
15 Jul
15 Jul
10:14 p.m.
On 15 July 2010 20:27, Nathanael Anderson <wirelessdreamer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If I don't find anything I want to hack something
together, so a primer on
midi tempo sync, and how to program with it would be appreciated.
Hi Nathanael,
I'm using JACK MIDI which makes it quite easy (compared with designing
the program architecture) to output MIDI events.
I'm also trying to use JACK transport to a) sync with other timebase
master programs, b) to act as a simple timebase master.
The JACK timebase and transport documentation focuses on using JACK to
accomplish these tasks.
see here: http://jackaudio.org/files/docs/html/transport-design.html
There is also a transport example in the examples directory within the
source code for JACK.
But these documents do not go into the issues you'll come across when
trying to accurately synchronize your application with another. Or
accurately acting as timebase master (ie you've recorded some audio
sequenced by your MIDI program acting as timebase master but it does
not line up when imported into a DAW with the same tempo/meter).
Beyond this, you'll have to look into other software source code
(AFAIK). But it's far from trivial.
Cheers,
James.
10:26 p.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 21:14 +0100, James Morris wrote:
On 15 July 2010 20:27, Nathanael Anderson
<wirelessdreamer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps the source code for Qtractor could help.
I've got timing issues, but they have nothing to do with JACK transport.
I guess (didn't use it) JACK transport is okay, with the limits Rui
mentioned today. Usually Rui does good programming.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Rui Nuno Capela <rncbc(a)rncbc.org>
To: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
Cc: Robin Gareus <robin(a)gareus.org>rg>, Devin Anderson
<devin(a)charityfinders.com>om>, qtractor-devel
<qtractor-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net>et>, 64studio-devel
<64studio-devel(a)lists.64studio.com>om>, Linux-Audio-Dev
<linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org>
Subject: Re: [LAD] Transport issue for Qtractor - has impact to the
jitter issue
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:33:53 +0100
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:15:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
If I don't find anything I want to hack
something together, so a primer on
midi tempo sync, and how to program with it would be appreciated.
Hi Nathanael,
I'm using JACK MIDI which makes it quite easy (compared with designing
the program architecture) to output MIDI events.
I'm also trying to use JACK transport to a) sync with other timebase
master programs, b) to act as a simple timebase master.
The JACK timebase and transport documentation focuses on using JACK to
accomplish these tasks.
see here: http://jackaudio.org/files/docs/html/transport-design.html
There is also a transport example in the examples directory within the
source code for JACK.
But these documents do not go into the issues you'll come across when
trying to accurately synchronize your application with another. Or
accurately acting as timebase master (ie you've recorded some audio
sequenced by your MIDI program acting as timebase master but it does
not line up when imported into a DAW with the same tempo/meter).
Beyond this, you'll have to look into other software source code
(AFAIK). But it's far from trivial.
Cheers,
James. Transport issue for Qtractor - has impact to the
jitter issue
what transport issue? oh i see... :)
qtractor has in fact a known trouble with jack transport sync when slaving
to period/buffer sizes greater than 2048 frames. it skids. maybe that's
exactly what you're experiencing when running jackd -p4096.
i'll recommend for you to turn jack transport mode to "none" or
"master"
only, never "slave" nor "full" on those situations (in
view/options.../audio/jack Transport).
another recommendation would be to grab the latest from svn trunk where
the said trouble has been already mitigated :)
cheers
10:58 p.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 14:27 -0500, Nathanael Anderson wrote:
Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
midi master -> special program
ddr pad -> special program
special program -> hydrogen
I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master tempo. aseqdump
shows the tempo messages x times a second.
I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr pad (usb
gamepad) and assign different timed midi patterns to the buttons, so
for example:
if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold down or toggle
a button
if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd have a basic
drum and snare beat when both buttons are held down or toggled, of
course i'd like to be able to have multiple patterns bound per button
as well
button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36, then rest for
the remaining 3 beats
1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
2 - 41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|
41,eighth|rest,eighth
Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a live solo
performance could easily be changed on the fly, leaving hands free to
play guitar.
Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about it?
Perhaps a MIDI control change command could switch between different
drum patterns for a soft drum module like Hydrogen?
IIUC you aren't searching for something like JACK transport, you just
wish to switch between drum patterns.
11:02 p.m.
hydrogen accepting a cc or pc, along with tempo sync would actually be the
perfect solution
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>wrote;wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 14:27 -0500, Nathanael Anderson
wrote:
Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
midi master -> special program
ddr pad -> special program
special program -> hydrogen
I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master tempo. aseqdump
shows the tempo messages x times a second.
I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr pad (usb
gamepad) and assign different timed midi patterns to the buttons, so
for example:
if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold down or toggle
a button
if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd have a basic
drum and snare beat when both buttons are held down or toggled, of
course i'd like to be able to have multiple patterns bound per button
as well
button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36, then rest for
the remaining 3 beats
1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
2 - 41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|
41,eighth|rest,eighth
Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a live solo
performance could easily be changed on the fly, leaving hands free to
play guitar.
Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about it?
Perhaps a MIDI control change command could switch between different
drum patterns for a soft drum module like Hydrogen?
IIUC you aren't searching for something like JACK transport, you just
wish to switch between drum patterns.
11:02 p.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:58 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 14:27 -0500, Nathanael Anderson
wrote:
E.g.
pattern one does
36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
pattern two does
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|
rest,eighth41,eighth|rest,eighth
and pattern three does
36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
+
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|
rest,eighth41,eighth|rest,eighth
hence you only need to program an app that switch between drum patterns.
Perhaps the used drum machine is able to switch by a CC command.
Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
midi master -> special program
ddr pad -> special program
special program -> hydrogen
I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master tempo. aseqdump
shows the tempo messages x times a second.
I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr pad (usb
gamepad) and assign different timed midi patterns to the buttons, so
for example:
if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold down or toggle
a button
if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd have a basic
drum and snare beat when both buttons are held down or toggled, of
course i'd like to be able to have multiple patterns bound per button
as well
button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36, then rest for
the remaining 3 beats
1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
2 - 41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|
41,eighth|rest,eighth
Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a live solo
performance could easily be changed on the fly, leaving hands free to
play guitar.
Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about it?
Perhaps a MIDI control change command could switch between different
drum patterns for a soft drum module like Hydrogen?
IIUC you aren't searching for something like JACK transport, you just
wish to switch between drum patterns.
11:03 p.m.
and i've already got code for gamepad to cc/pc laying around. but hydrogen
is qt, which i'm quite unfamiliar with =|
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>wrote;wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:58 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 14:27 -0500, Nathanael
Anderson wrote:
E.g.
pattern one does
36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
pattern two does
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|
rest,eighth41,eighth|rest,eighth
and pattern three does
36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
+
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|
rest,eighth41,eighth|rest,eighth
hence you only need to program an app that switch between drum patterns.
Perhaps the used drum machine is able to switch by a CC command.
Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
midi master -> special program
ddr pad -> special program
special program -> hydrogen
I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master tempo. aseqdump
shows the tempo messages x times a second.
I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr pad (usb
gamepad) and assign different timed midi patterns to the buttons, so
for example:
if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold down or toggle
a button
if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd have a basic
drum and snare beat when both buttons are held down or toggled, of
course i'd like to be able to have multiple patterns bound per button
as well
button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36, then rest for
the remaining 3 beats
1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
2 - 41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|
41,eighth|rest,eighth
Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a live solo
performance could easily be changed on the fly, leaving hands free to
play guitar.
Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about it?
Perhaps a MIDI control change command could switch between different
drum patterns for a soft drum module like Hydrogen?
IIUC you aren't searching for something like JACK transport, you just
wish to switch between drum patterns.
16 Jul
16 Jul
12:15 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 16:03 -0500, Nathanael Anderson wrote:
and i've already got code for gamepad to cc/pc
laying around. but
hydrogen is qt, which i'm quite unfamiliar with =|
"Alessandro Cominu (Comix's blog)
[comix(a)users.sourceforge.net]
Maintainer, main coder" (http://www.hydrogen-music.org/?p=authors)
I'm sure they will have a sympathetic ear regarding to your needs.
Perhaps you should include 'Hydrogen' to the email's subject for LAD.
- Ralf
PS: Capability for freestyle improvisation is much harder than what I
expect from a PC. I guess you not only wish to chose between a fistful
of possibilities for drum patterns, while you're playing the guitar ;)?!
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:58 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 14:27 -0500, Nathanael
Anderson wrote:
> Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
>
> midi master -> special program
> ddr pad -> special program
> special program -> hydrogen
>
> I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master
tempo.
aseqdump
> shows the tempo messages x times a second.
>
> I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr
pad (usb
> gamepad) and assign different timed midi
patterns to the
buttons, so
> for example:
> if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold
down or
toggle
> a button
>
> if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd
have a
basic
> drum and snare beat when both buttons are
held down or
toggled, of
> course i'd like to be able to have
multiple patterns bound
per button
> as well
>
> button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36,
then rest for
> the remaining 3 beats
> 1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
> 2 - 41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|
rest,eighth|
> 41,eighth|rest,eighth
>
> Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a
live solo
> performance could easily be changed on the
fly, leaving
hands free to
> play guitar.
>
> Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about
it?
Perhaps a MIDI control change command could switch between
different
drum patterns for a soft drum module like
Hydrogen?
IIUC you aren't searching for something like JACK transport,
you just
wish to switch between drum patterns.
E.g.
pattern one does
36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
pattern two does
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|
rest,eighth41,eighth|rest,eighth
and pattern three does
36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
+
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|
rest,eighth41,eighth|rest,eighth
hence you only need to program an app that switch between drum
patterns.
Perhaps the used drum machine is able to switch by a CC
command. 
2:51 a.m.
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:14:50 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
[too much]
Ralf,
Please, please, please, refrain from posting so much. Please, please,
please, take a good breath of thinking each time you're about to post
on LAD. You are welcomed to post. Sometimes, a lot of posts for
debugging purpose is fine, as long as you stick to what those who know
(thanks and kudos to them) ask you, say a log file or the result of
simple test cases you'd have to run on your system.
Thanks.
PS: If you really wish to reply to this email, reply to me, and
NOT to the list. Please, please, please.
-- David
11:34 p.m.
Am Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:27:35 -0500
schrieb Nathanael Anderson <wirelessdreamer(a)gmail.com>om>:
Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
midi master -> special program
ddr pad -> special program
special program -> hydrogen
I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master tempo. aseqdump shows
the tempo messages x times a second.
I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr pad (usb gamepad)
and assign different timed midi patterns to the buttons, so for example:
if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold down or toggle a
button
if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd have a basic drum and
snare beat when both buttons are held down or toggled, of course i'd like to
be able to have multiple patterns bound per button as well
button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36, then rest for the
remaining 3 beats
1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
2 -
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth
Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a live solo
performance could easily be changed on the fly, leaving hands free to play
guitar.
Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about it?
If I don't find anything I want to hack something together, so a primer on
midi tempo sync, and how to program with it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Nathanael
hi, try the hydrogen-midi-clock branch.
http://svn.assembla.com/svn/hydrogen/branches/midi-clock
with this branch you can send and receive midi clock ,spp and midi-start & stop.
this make it possible to control external hardware like a korg kaossilator pro or a
mopho.
also hydrogen comes with a build in tap-tempo. its possible to map midi note or midi cc
massages to the different tap tempo functions.
hydrogen has two differnt tap tempo implementation.
1. normal taptempo with 1/4 tapping (AltGr + \)
2. advanced beat counter. 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 tapping is adjustable( , key). also it's
adjustable, how many taps will calculate the tempo. minimum is two maximum is 16.
now you can tap the tempo in hydrogen and other jack transport or midi clock applications
and devices can follow your tapping.
i personal prefer midi clock to sync different sequencers.
1. because its the easy to use and most hardware devices comes with midi clock
implementation.
2. midi clock will also send if the trasnsport is stopped.
3. midi clock is independent from frame positions or song positions. it only send a
simple quarter note based clock rate. this keep you against many side effects you will
run
if you try to use jack transport.
greetings wolke
17 Jul
17 Jul
3:42 a.m.
On July 16, 2010 05:34:11 pm m.wolkstein(a)gmx.de wrote:
Am Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:27:35 -0500
schrieb Nathanael Anderson <wirelessdreamer(a)gmail.com>om>:
Hey, cool! Thanks for the
tip. I didn't know there were other branches.
Seems an important branch. I think someone else was asking about this before.
Hope they see this.
Tim.
Here is the setup i'm looking to do:
midi master -> special program
ddr pad -> special program
special program -> hydrogen
I've got a hardware midi device controlling the master tempo. aseqdump
shows the tempo messages x times a second.
I want to either find or make a program so I can use a ddr pad (usb
gamepad) and assign different timed midi patterns to the buttons, so for
example: if the program is configured for 4/4 time, when I hold down or
toggle a button
if note 36 is a bass drum and 41 is a snare then you'd have a basic drum
and snare beat when both buttons are held down or toggled, of course i'd
like to be able to have multiple patterns bound per button as well
button one is set to play a quarter note midi note 36, then rest for the
remaining 3 beats
1 - 36,quarter|rest,quarter|36,quarter|rest,quarter
2 -
41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eighth|rest,eighth|41,eigh
th|rest,eighth
Each pattern would describe one measure, and the flow of a live solo
performance could easily be changed on the fly, leaving hands free to
play guitar.
Anything out there like this, and I just don't know about it?
If I don't find anything I want to hack something together, so a primer
on midi tempo sync, and how to program with it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Nathanael
hi, try the hydrogen-midi-clock branch.
http://svn.assembla.com/svn/hydrogen/branches/midi-clock
with this branch you can send and receive midi clock ,spp and midi-start &
stop. this make it possible to control external hardware like a korg
kaossilator pro or a mopho.
also hydrogen comes with a build in tap-tempo. its possible to map midi
note or midi cc massages to the different tap tempo functions.
hydrogen has two differnt tap tempo implementation.
1. normal taptempo with 1/4 tapping (AltGr + \)
2. advanced beat counter. 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 tapping is adjustable( , key).
also it's adjustable, how many taps will calculate the tempo. minimum is
two maximum is 16.
now you can tap the tempo in hydrogen and other jack transport or midi
clock applications and devices can follow your tapping.
i personal prefer midi clock to sync different sequencers.
1. because its the easy to use and most hardware devices comes with midi
clock implementation.
2. midi clock will also send if the trasnsport is stopped.
3. midi clock is independent from frame positions or song positions. it
only send a simple quarter note based clock rate. this keep you against
many side effects you will run if you try to use jack transport.
greetings wolke
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10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
David -
James Morris -
m.wolkstein＠gmx.de -
Nathanael Anderson -
Ralf Mardorf -
Tim E. Real