18 Jul
2010
18 Jul
'10
9:57 p.m.
A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for their guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
I'm not fine with this solution, but the kids argue, that e.g. an
interruption does cause unwanted noise, especially for over drive
sounds. IMO even using opto-electronics won't solve the issue, because
the noise of the transistor overdrive effect still would be hearable,
while for a short circuit there is silence.
Has anybody an idea to solve this without a short circuit?
I'm really not a fan of short circuits. Note, it's not possible to do an
interrupt all the times behind the latest noise generator and even an
interrupt could cause noise itself, while a short circuit indeed is a
good way to cancel sound.
18 Jul
18 Jul
10:27 p.m.
On Sunday 18 July 2010 21:57:06 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for their
guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
I'm not fine with this solution, but the kids argue, that e.g. an
interruption does cause unwanted noise, especially for over drive
sounds. IMO even using opto-electronics won't solve the issue, because
the noise of the transistor overdrive effect still would be hearable,
while for a short circuit there is silence.
Has anybody an idea to solve this without a short circuit?
I'm really not a fan of short circuits. Note, it's not possible to do an
interrupt all the times behind the latest noise generator and even an
interrupt could cause noise itself, while a short circuit indeed is a
good way to cancel sound.
What about an amplifier that normally passes through but on the kill-signal,
the amplification is faded down really fast. Like ardour does with region-
boundaries?
Arnold
10:45 p.m.
On Sun, 2010-07-18 at 21:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for their
guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
Yes, it's just a switch wired across the volume pot. It has the same
effect as instantaneously reducing the volume to minimum. Dead easy.
Gordon MM0YEQ
11:19 p.m.
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for their
guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
Most guitar players here (myself included) either have a
tuning pedal in the FX chain, or a volume pedal. Either one
will accomplish this.
A lot of kids need tuning pedals, too. :-)
-gabriel
19 Jul
19 Jul
7:41 a.m.
On July 18, 2010 03:57:06 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote:
A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for their
guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
I'm not fine with this solution, but the kids argue, that e.g. an
interruption does cause unwanted noise, especially for over drive
sounds. IMO even using opto-electronics won't solve the issue, because
the noise of the transistor overdrive effect still would be hearable,
while for a short circuit there is silence.
Has anybody an idea to solve this without a short circuit?
I'm really not a fan of short circuits. Note, it's not possible to do an
interrupt all the times behind the latest noise generator and even an
interrupt could cause noise itself, while a short circuit indeed is a
good way to cancel sound.
If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim.
2:04 p.m.
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 01:30 -0400, Tim E. Real wrote:
On July 18, 2010 03:57:06 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Yes, but this could cause noise by the switch or by effects, e.g. the
sustainer. I guess the kids prevent any noise by a short circuit,
perhaps even the sustainer then will be 'killed', if so, OTOH I guess
this won't be good for the effects and amps. As some people mentioned
before, it would be better to use some kind of gate at the end of the
effect chain. I really wonder what happens to e.g. a sustainer or to the
pre-amp of the guitar's amp when doing a short circuit. I guess because
of a short circuit there really will be silence. I also wonder if just
interrupting would cause that annoying noise, believing the hype, it
should cause annoying noise. Btw. for all this Japan avant-garde a
Gibson switch or a foot switch isn't good, they do need a momentary
switch. Because it's really used by kids, I wonder how old the equipment
would become. A short-circuit protection won't protect against impulses,
OTOH just interrupting might also cause impulses.
Thank you all :)
Ralf
A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for
their guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
I'm not fine with this solution, but the kids argue, that e.g. an
interruption does cause unwanted noise, especially for over drive
sounds. IMO even using opto-electronics won't solve the issue, because
the noise of the transistor overdrive effect still would be hearable,
while for a short circuit there is silence.
Has anybody an idea to solve this without a short circuit?
I'm really not a fan of short circuits. Note, it's not possible to do an
interrupt all the times behind the latest noise generator and even an
interrupt could cause noise itself, while a short circuit indeed is a
good way to cancel sound.
If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim. 
9:17 p.m.
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:04:24 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 01:30 -0400, Tim E. Real wrote:
I'm not really clear on what your objection is to shorting the guitar
pickups. I've never heard of it causing any problem.
There is a remarkably effective click-free way of muting a guitar. The
original involved a light-dependent-resistor and a filament bulb, but
these days you'd be better off using an LED as the light source.
The L.D.R. (typically ORP12) is in a light proof box with a
hole in line with the LED. The LDR shunts the guitar output. When
'dark' it has a typical value of 5 Meg, and has no noticeable effect.
When 'light' it is typically 100 Ohm and effectively shorts out the
pickups.
However the trick is NOT to switch the LED off and on, but to keep it
on all the time and arrange the pedal/switch so it slides an opaque
vane or shutter between the LED and the L.D.R.
These switches can be made *extremely* robust and never wear out or
become noisy.
A variant of this was used as a swell pedal in the original GEM portable
organ of the middle 1960s - I know. I had one :)
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
On July 18, 2010 03:57:06 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Yes, but this could cause noise by the switch or by effects, e.g. the
sustainer. I guess the kids prevent any noise by a short circuit,
perhaps even the sustainer then will be 'killed', if so, OTOH I guess
this won't be good for the effects and amps. As some people mentioned
before, it would be better to use some kind of gate at the end of the
effect chain. I really wonder what happens to e.g. a sustainer or to the
pre-amp of the guitar's amp when doing a short circuit. I guess because
of a short circuit there really will be silence. I also wonder if just
interrupting would cause that annoying noise, believing the hype, it
should cause annoying noise. Btw. for all this Japan avant-garde a
Gibson switch or a foot switch isn't good, they do need a momentary
switch. Because it's really used by kids, I wonder how old the equipment
would become. A short-circuit protection won't protect against impulses,
OTOH just interrupting might also cause impulses.
Thank you all :)
Ralf A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for
their guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
I'm not fine with this solution, but the kids argue, that e.g. an
interruption does cause unwanted noise, especially for over drive
sounds. IMO even using opto-electronics won't solve the issue, because
the noise of the transistor overdrive effect still would be hearable,
while for a short circuit there is silence.
Has anybody an idea to solve this without a short circuit?
I'm really not a fan of short circuits. Note, it's not possible to do an
interrupt all the times behind the latest noise generator and even an
interrupt could cause noise itself, while a short circuit indeed is a
good way to cancel sound.
If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim.
20 Jul
20 Jul
10:45 a.m.
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 20:17 +0100, Folderol wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:04:24 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
I never opened a Morley pedal, but I guess this is the way they use
opto.
But it's solved, I did error in reasoning:
-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp(a)gjcp.net>
To: linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [LAD] May I asked something OT?
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:04:28 +0100
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 14:45 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 01:30 -0400, Tim E. Real
wrote:
I'm not really clear on what your objection is to shorting the guitar
pickups. I've never heard of it causing any problem.
There is a remarkably effective click-free way of muting a guitar. The
original involved a light-dependent-resistor and a filament bulb, but
these days you'd be better off using an LED as the light source.
The L.D.R. (typically ORP12) is in a light proof box with a
hole in line with the LED. The LDR shunts the guitar output. When
'dark' it has a typical value of 5 Meg, and has no noticeable effect.
When 'light' it is typically 100 Ohm and effectively shorts out the
pickups.
However the trick is NOT to switch the LED off and on, but to keep it
on all the time and arrange the pedal/switch so it slides an opaque
vane or shutter between the LED and the L.D.R.
These switches can be made *extremely* robust and never wear out or
become noisy.
A variant of this was used as a swell pedal in the original GEM portable
organ of the middle 1960s - I know. I had one :) On July 18, 2010 03:57:06 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Yes, but this could cause noise by the switch or by effects, e.g. the
sustainer. I guess the kids prevent any noise by a short circuit,
perhaps even the sustainer then will be 'killed', if so, OTOH I guess
this won't be good for the effects and amps. As some people mentioned
before, it would be better to use some kind of gate at the end of the
effect chain. I really wonder what happens to e.g. a sustainer or to the
pre-amp of the guitar's amp when doing a short circuit. I guess because
of a short circuit there really will be silence. I also wonder if just
interrupting would cause that annoying noise, believing the hype, it
should cause annoying noise. Btw. for all this Japan avant-garde a
Gibson switch or a foot switch isn't good, they do need a momentary
switch. Because it's really used by kids, I wonder how old the equipment
would become. A short-circuit protection won't protect against impulses,
OTOH just interrupting might also cause impulses.
Thank you all :)
Ralf A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for
their guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
I'm not fine with this solution, but the kids argue, that e.g. an
interruption does cause unwanted noise, especially for over drive
sounds. IMO even using opto-electronics won't solve the issue, because
the noise of the transistor overdrive effect still would be hearable,
while for a short circuit there is silence.
Has anybody an idea to solve this without a short circuit?
I'm really not a fan of short circuits. Note, it's not possible to do an
interrupt all the times behind the latest noise generator and even an
interrupt could cause noise itself, while a short circuit indeed is a
good way to cancel sound.
If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim.
http://www.instructables.com/image/FC6ZZ0XF8JUW8E8/What-is-a-killswitch.jpg
This is what I call short circuit. It won't harm a pre-amp doing it by a
potentiometer, but I wonder if doing it fast, again and again by a
switch won't cause impulses, when the short circuit will be released
again? Perhaps I do error in reasoning and it's quite save.
Yes, it's entirely safe. At that stage you've got a few tens of
millivolts of signal at best, across about a 1k impedance source.
Gordon MM0YEQ
19 Jul
19 Jul
2:13 p.m.
2010/7/19 Tim E. Real <termtech(a)rogers.com>om>:
If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup
volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim.
Ah, this takes me back. A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far...
no not that far away.
Anyway, had a Yamaha SG clone and cheap amp set at maximum distortion
(probably a distortion pedal too) and playing in a small, not very
well damped practice room with my mates. As soon as I stopped playing
it would constantly wail. The solution as you mention was to set the
neck pickup to zero and switch to it.
Didn't know about the EVH anecdote though :)
Regards,
Robert
23 Jul
23 Jul
1:01 p.m.
Robert Jonsson wrote:
2010/7/19 Tim E. Real <termtech(a)rogers.com>om>:
A Yamaha SG clone? You mean the Yamaha SG series? Those are great
guitars. Have a SG2000 myself, it's an awesome guitar, lots of low but
it also punches through in the highs when it comes to solos or riffs.
Best,
Jeremy
If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup
volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim.
Ah, this takes me back. A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far...
no not that far away.
Anyway, had a Yamaha SG clone and cheap amp set at maximum distortion
(probably a distortion pedal too) and playing in a small, not very
well damped practice room with my mates. As soon as I stopped playing
it would constantly wail. The solution as you mention was to set the
neck pickup to zero and switch to it.
Didn't know about the EVH anecdote though :)
Regards,
Robert
4:07 p.m.
On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 13:01 +0200, Jeremy wrote:
Robert Jonsson wrote:
IMO the easiest to play guitar other do have other good sounds, but they
are harder to play.
2010/7/19 Tim E. Real
<termtech(a)rogers.com>om>:
A Yamaha SG clone? You mean the Yamaha SG series? Those are great
guitars. Have a SG2000 myself, it's an awesome guitar, lots of low but
it also punches through in the highs when it comes to solos or riffs.
Best,
Jeremy If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup
volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim.
Ah, this takes me back. A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far...
no not that far away.
Anyway, had a Yamaha SG clone and cheap amp set at maximum distortion
(probably a distortion pedal too) and playing in a small, not very
well damped practice room with my mates. As soon as I stopped playing
it would constantly wail. The solution as you mention was to set the
neck pickup to zero and switch to it.
Didn't know about the EVH anecdote though :)
Regards,
Robert
12:58 p.m.
Tim E. Real wrote:
On July 18, 2010 03:57:06 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote:
That's what I do too. It doesn't cause any extra noise and it saves me
from rewiring/soldering my precious guitars.
Best,
Jeremy
A lot of kids wish to have a kill switch for
their guitars.
A kill switch is a short circuit, to 'stop' the audio signal.
I'm not fine with this solution, but the kids argue, that e.g. an
interruption does cause unwanted noise, especially for over drive
sounds. IMO even using opto-electronics won't solve the issue, because
the noise of the transistor overdrive effect still would be hearable,
while for a short circuit there is silence.
Has anybody an idea to solve this without a short circuit?
I'm really not a fan of short circuits. Note, it's not possible to do an
interrupt all the times behind the latest noise generator and even an
interrupt could cause noise itself, while a short circuit indeed is a
good way to cancel sound.
If you play a Gibson you can set the neck pickup volume to zero and
the bridge pickup volume to full and then toggle the pickup switch,
rapidly if desired, like Eddie van Halen on You Really Got Me.
Tim.
5050
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
11 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Arnold Krille -
Folderol -
Gabriel M. Beddingfield -
Gordon JC Pearce -
Jeremy -
Ralf Mardorf -
Robert Jonsson -
Tim E. Real