26 Dec
2009
26 Dec
'09
10:31 a.m.
I am trying to fix the size of my UI to be independent of the selected
WM theme. I have a gtkrc (based on the "Ia Oya" engine) which will do
that - except for the font sizes which will vary dependent on how screen
resolution is set globally.
One work-around I have found is to use a font that has only one size. Of
that kind I have found three: "Terminal" (medium sized, looks a bit like
a flattened "9x15"), "Teletext" (like "Terminal" but
wider),
"Outcast" (small, "Tek"-like slanted) and "Caption" which is
again like
"Terminal but twice the size and more polished.
Are these fonts standard in any distribution? Or a result of the
dependencies of whatever packages I might whimsically have happened to
have currently installed?
[Dots per inch makes little sense when the target could be a cinema
sized 800x600 projector as well as a handheld with similar resolution]
26 Dec
26 Dec
10:48 a.m.
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jens M Andreasen
<jens.andreasen(a)comhem.se> wrote:
[Dots per inch makes little sense when the target
could be a cinema
sized 800x600 projector as well as a handheld with similar resolution]
the point size specification given to Pango is already "a lie". if you
ask for "Sans 10", you don't get "Sans 10", you get something that
the
GUI toolkit believes looks roughly like "Sans 10" for the display
configuration you are using (precisely for the reason you noted).
There is a list of "standard" fonts that any given GUI toolkit can
expect to be able to use. I can't recall where it lives (its probably
toolkit specific), but AFAIR, the 5 that you listed are not on it.
10:52 a.m.
Hi, I don't know about GTK but in Qt it is possible to load a bundled font.
I would think that with some wizardry that would be possible with GTK too.
Not sure about licenses may be a problem to find a font that allows it.
/Robert
2009/12/26 Jens M Andreasen <jens.andreasen(a)comhem.se>se>:
I am trying to fix the size of my UI to be independent
of the selected
WM theme. I have a gtkrc (based on the "Ia Oya" engine) which will do
that - except for the font sizes which will vary dependent on how screen
resolution is set globally.
One work-around I have found is to use a font that has only one size. Of
that kind I have found three: "Terminal" (medium sized, looks a bit like
a flattened "9x15"), "Teletext" (like "Terminal" but
wider),
"Outcast" (small, "Tek"-like slanted) and "Caption" which
is again like
"Terminal but twice the size and more polished.
Are these fonts standard in any distribution? Or a result of the
dependencies of whatever packages I might whimsically have happened to
have currently installed?
[Dots per inch makes little sense when the target could be a cinema
sized 800x600 projector as well as a handheld with similar resolution]
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2:53 p.m.
Hi,
On Saturday 26 December 2009 15:31:10 Jens M Andreasen wrote:
I am trying to fix the size of my UI to be independent
of the selected
WM theme. I have a gtkrc (based on the "Ia Oya" engine) which will do
that - except for the font sizes which will vary dependent on how screen
resolution is set globally.
One work-around I have found is to use a font that has only one size. Of
that kind I have found three: "Terminal" (medium sized, looks a bit like
a flattened "9x15"), "Teletext" (like "Terminal" but
wider),
"Outcast" (small, "Tek"-like slanted) and "Caption" which
is again like
"Terminal but twice the size and more polished.
Are these fonts standard in any distribution? Or a result of the
dependencies of whatever packages I might whimsically have happened to
have currently installed?
[Dots per inch makes little sense when the target could be a cinema
sized 800x600 projector as well as a handheld with similar resolution]
Please use the fonts the user has selected in the sizes the user has selected.
There is a reason why some people use 9px Times and others use 20pt bold
Verdana. [*] And an applications programmer trying to be smarter than the user
ends destroying the users experience...
Arnold
[*] And there is a reason why modern toolkits have dynamic layouts and such
stuff.
3:06 p.m.
Arnold Krille wrote:
Hi,
On Saturday 26 December 2009 15:31:10 Jens M Andreasen wrote:
Full ACK, but it's also good if a user has the possibility to us an
application specific font, as an additional option. My user selected
fonts for the DE are huge, but sometimes I like to have smaller fonts
for some applications. Anyway, for the default the fonts should be the
fonts selected for the DE and the applications window should be able to
display even huge fonts. Btw. scrollbars are better than wide and huge
windows that sometimes can't be moved to show everything.
I can imagine that a coder starting a project has better things to do,
but keeping an eye on those issue, but for well-engineered applications
conversion to the DE, applying fonts, using scroll bars and applying
colours is very important (sometimes there's a dark theme vs bright
theme issue).
I am trying to fix the size of my UI to be
independent of the selected
WM theme. I have a gtkrc (based on the "Ia Oya" engine) which will do
that - except for the font sizes which will vary dependent on how screen
resolution is set globally.
One work-around I have found is to use a font that has only one size. Of
that kind I have found three: "Terminal" (medium sized, looks a bit like
a flattened "9x15"), "Teletext" (like "Terminal" but
wider),
"Outcast" (small, "Tek"-like slanted) and "Caption" which
is again like
"Terminal but twice the size and more polished.
Are these fonts standard in any distribution? Or a result of the
dependencies of whatever packages I might whimsically have happened to
have currently installed?
[Dots per inch makes little sense when the target could be a cinema
sized 800x600 projector as well as a handheld with similar resolution]
Please use the fonts the user has selected in the sizes the user has selected.
There is a reason why some people use 9px Times and others use 20pt bold
Verdana. [*] And an applications programmer trying to be smarter than the user
ends destroying the users experience...
Arnold
[*] And there is a reason why modern toolkits have dynamic layouts and such
stuff.
5:39 p.m.
On Sat, 2009-12-26 at 19:53 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote:
There is a reason why some people use 9px Times and
others use 20pt bold
Verdana. [*] And an applications programmer trying to be smarter than the user
ends destroying the users experience...
It is like this: If the fontsize for the (mostly decorative) labels is
too big, the application window will become absolutely huge and for no
apparent reason won't fit on the desktop. This destroys the users
experience... Playing it safe and just setting the labels to a small
size won't work always either. I can't read the labels in Ardour when
run from Gnome without zooming in or changing my normal settings. It
works the way I believe it was intended with WindowMaker though.
Arnold
[*] And there is a reason why modern toolkits have dynamic layouts and such
stuff.
And sometimes you just have reasons to outsmart the Toolkit, the WM, the
Desktop, the Theme and the Xconfig (as well as the user having more or
less lost control of it all) - to get things done right for the sake of
a consistent user experience!
Anyways, here is what I do for 'Sans' with a max height of 13 that is to
be used for labeling some 16x16 px checkboxes:
window = gtk_window_new (GTK_WINDOW_TOPLEVEL);
{
GtkWidget *label = gtk_label_new
("ABCD EFG HIJKLMNO PQR STUVWXY Za bcde fghijk lmn opqest uvw xyz
123 45 67 890!");
g_object_ref (label);
gtk_container_add (GTK_CONTAINER (window), label);
GtkRequisition rq;
int i = 5;
char buf[32];
do {
sprintf(buf,"%s %2d","Sans",i);
gtk_widget_modify_font (label,pango_font_description_from_string
(buf));
gtk_widget_size_request ((GtkWidget *)label,&rq);
printf("'%7s' h:%3d w:%4d \n",buf,rq.height,rq.width);
} while(rq.height < 13 && ++i < 42);
label_font = strdup(buf); // <--
gtk_container_remove (GTK_CONTAINER (window), label);
}
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6:49 p.m.
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Jens M Andreasen
<jens.andreasen(a)comhem.se> wrote:
It is like this: If the fontsize for the (mostly
decorative) labels is
too big, the application window will become absolutely huge and for no
apparent reason won't fit on the desktop. This destroys the users
experience... Playing it safe and just setting the labels to a small
size won't work always either. I can't read the labels in Ardour when
run from Gnome without zooming in or changing my normal settings. It
works the way I believe it was intended with WindowMaker though.
have you used the font scaler in ardour? its true that it change
(almost) all text, rather than parts of it.
Anyways, here is what I do for 'Sans' with a
max height of 13 that is to
be used for labeling some 16x16 px checkboxes:
jens - there's a faster way to do this. rather than using widgets,
create Pango layouts and then use pango_layout_get_ink_extents(). in
c++:
void
Gtkmm2ext::get_ink_pixel_size (Glib::RefPtr<Pango::Layout> layout,
int& width,
int& height)
{
Pango::Rectangle ink_rect = layout->get_ink_extents ();
width = (ink_rect.get_width() + PANGO_SCALE / 2) / PANGO_SCALE;
height = (ink_rect.get_height() + PANGO_SCALE / 2) / PANGO_SCALE;
}
27 Dec
27 Dec
11 a.m.
Hi,
On Saturday 26 December 2009 22:38:32 Jens M Andreasen wrote:
And sometimes you just have reasons to outsmart the
Toolkit, the WM, the
Desktop, the Theme and the Xconfig (as well as the user having more or
less lost control of it all) - to get things done right for the sake of
a consistent user experience!
No, a consistent user experience is _not_ to try to be smarter than the user.
If the user likes his font 64pt big, so be it. Trying to be smarter then some
users regularly results in be dumber for most other users.
Just don't do it. Have dynamic layouts and use the systems fonts, colours and
styles. They save you a great deal of work and time which you can spend on
more important things like what your application is doing on all systems
instead of how its looking on some systems.
Arnold
1:10 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-12-27 at 16:00 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote:
If the user likes his font 64pt big, so be it. Trying
to be smarter then some
users regularly results in be dumber for most other users.
Just don't do it. ....
You are talking about some general case, for an application without any
known goal or specific purpose. I am talking about the specific case,
having one goal of staying out of the way as much as possible. If I
could have crammed everything into a 64x64 px WindowMaker Applet, I
would have done so. Now plz download, compile and run it, then see if it
does not suit your Desktop anyway:
http://web.comhem.se/luna/
If it did not look very much like what you see in the picture (excluding
the exact colours), then that is considered a bug in my book, and I
would like to hear about it!
[You'll need the 'Ia Ora' theme-engine installed: libia_ora-gnome]
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8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Arnold Krille -
Jens M Andreasen -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf -
Robert Jonsson