2 Jul
2011
2 Jul
'11
10:46 p.m.
Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the difficulties of
getting decent audio performance on Android, what about not using
Android and using good ol' Linux instead?
Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 (
https://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-…
). I'm sure that it will be easier to create handheld multimedia
applications on an in-production and widely-distributed, supported
product that supports the full stack of libs and development tools
already in use by the LAD community....
..................
Fortunately, a bunch of interesting multimedia projects will be
getting a Nokia N950 to develop applications for the upcoming Nokia N9
( see also http://shootspeak.com/2011/06/24/nokia-n9-extra-facts-tidbits-updates/
).
The following are excerpted from
http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Accep…
as of July 2 2011:
-- Porting Maesynth and Maelophone from N900 Python to QML and C++.
Stress testing the new Qt Game Enabler to see if we finally have low
latency audio support in Qt. Will also look to see if we can get midi
sample support via Wild Midi or equivalent.
-- Porting FunkeySynth, a MeeGo Tablet synthesizer to Harmattan
http://sandst1.wordpress.com/
-- Develop an audio recording application with geo-location support,
plus other applications to improve personal productivity utilising the
Harmattan notification/event view.
-- Develop FM RDS applications with focus in the new standards from
RadioDNS like the RadioVIS (partly based in the already existent the
N900-fmvis http://code.google.com/p/n900-fmvis/). I'm a member of a
university radio station (Radio Muda FM, 88.5MHz) and my plan is to
develop "real life" radio station applications.
I'll also rewrite an application I did for audio streaming, darknow (a
gui for darkice, http://darksnow.radiolivre.org) which is an icecast2
client, and also write an audio/video icecast2 client (based in a
software I did called theorur, http://theorur.sarava.org), all using
QT.
-- Porting XBMC + MeeGo TV stuff + doing audio continuums using pulseaudio.
-- Creating a Libre.fm radio client and porting Jokosher to small
screen devices.
-- Meex, a portable DJing application http://jenkins.vitaminj.co.uk/job/meex/
-- Porting Amarok to tablets and handsets running MeeGo/Harmattan.
-- Developing an audio player to access to more than 47 000 webradios
referenced on AOL shoutcast (by name, genre, current track)
-- Panucci - Resuming audiobook and podcast player
-- http://mediadownloader.cz.cc/?page_id=2
-- LinuxMCE is a next generation smart home platform encompassing
media, home automation, telecom, and security features.
http://www.linuxmce.org/
-- Porting Flumotion an open source streaming solution to Harmattan
taking advantage of the hardware encoding and the camera
-- magnus-plus photo: an application that combines a camera-based
magnifier with more advanced image processing techniques
-- Photographer's application suite (SnapGo, currently) to include
feature like a light meter and GPS track recording.
-- And last, but not least, I'm Looking forward to getting mine soon.
:-) [For: http://wiki.meego.com/tubelet-and-cutetube-port and
http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectF…
]
Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
PS: As long as floating-point limited CPU's (ARM) are the norm among
mobile processors, there may be a final calling for really complicated
audio synthesis to be done entirely with integer arithmetic. Which may
necessitate a different and more monolithic architecture -- one where
everything is done/controled in&by the application itself, as opposed
to using jack. Given the limited screen real estate available, how
much can you expect to successfully control and mix simultaneously
anyways?
PPS: The successful apps figure out dedicated gestural/haptic/vocal
interfaces to control all the knobs-and-dials underneath, e.g..
http://smule.com/ 's http://ocarina.smule.com/ (see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHtCAAj8jFI ).
PPPS: speaking of having a complete "Linux" stack , what about WebOS
and the HP Touchpad? http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/06/hp-touchpad/
3 Jul
3 Jul
2:38 a.m.
Just so that we're clear, absolutely NOTHING stops JACK supporting
integer audio formats. The code required to add it is measured in the
tens of lines, not even hundreds.
4:42 a.m.
New subject: MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Jul 2, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Niels Mayer wrote:
Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the
difficulties of
getting decent audio performance on Android, what about not using
Android and using good ol' Linux instead?
Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 (
https://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-…
). I'm sure that it will be easier to create handheld multimedia
applications on an in-production and widely-distributed, supported
product that supports the full stack of libs and development tools
already in use by the LAD community....
..................
Fortunately, a bunch of interesting multimedia projects will be
getting a Nokia N950 to develop applications for the upcoming Nokia N9
( see also http://shootspeak.com/2011/06/24/nokia-n9-extra-facts-tidbits-updates/
).
The following are excerpted from
http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Accep…
as of July 2 2011:
-- Porting Maesynth and Maelophone from N900 Python to QML and C++.
Stress testing the new Qt Game Enabler to see if we finally have low
latency audio support in Qt. Will also look to see if we can get midi
sample support via Wild Midi or equivalent.
-- Porting FunkeySynth, a MeeGo Tablet synthesizer to Harmattan
http://sandst1.wordpress.com/
-- Develop an audio recording application with geo-location support,
plus other applications to improve personal productivity utilising the
Harmattan notification/event view.
-- Develop FM RDS applications with focus in the new standards from
RadioDNS like the RadioVIS (partly based in the already existent the
N900-fmvis http://code.google.com/p/n900-fmvis/). I'm a member of a
university radio station (Radio Muda FM, 88.5MHz) and my plan is to
develop "real life" radio station applications.
You may be interested in "airtime"
http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/products/airtime_overview/
I'll also rewrite an application I did for audio
streaming, darknow (a
gui for darkice, http://darksnow.radiolivre.org) which is an icecast2
client, and also write an audio/video icecast2 client (based in a
software I did called theorur, http://theorur.sarava.org), all using
QT.
Theorur is a GUI for Ogg/Theora streaming, written using gtk2, under GLPv2, by Rafael
Diniz.
http://wiki.theartcollider.org/tools/qiph is a thin QT frontend
to ffmpeg2theora & oggfwd - source as well as binaries for OSX, win32 and GNU/Linux
are avail for download.
-- Porting XBMC + MeeGo TV stuff + doing audio
continuums using pulseaudio.
-- Creating a Libre.fm radio client and porting Jokosher to small
screen devices.
-- Meex, a portable DJing application http://jenkins.vitaminj.co.uk/job/meex/
-- Porting Amarok to tablets and handsets running MeeGo/Harmattan.
-- Developing an audio player to access to more than 47 000 webradios
referenced on AOL shoutcast (by name, genre, current track)
-- Panucci - Resuming audiobook and podcast player
-- http://mediadownloader.cz.cc/?page_id=2
-- LinuxMCE is a next generation smart home platform encompassing
media, home automation, telecom, and security features.
http://www.linuxmce.org/
-- Porting Flumotion an open source streaming solution to Harmattan
taking advantage of the hardware encoding and the camera
-- magnus-plus photo: an application that combines a camera-based
magnifier with more advanced image processing techniques
-- Photographer's application suite (SnapGo, currently) to include
feature like a light meter and GPS track recording.
-- And last, but not least, I'm Looking forward to getting mine soon.
:-) [For: http://wiki.meego.com/tubelet-and-cutetube-port and
http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectF…
]
sounds like you'll be busy for a while :)
have fun,
robin
Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
PS: As long as floating-point limited CPU's (ARM) are the norm among
mobile processors, there may be a final calling for really complicated
audio synthesis to be done entirely with integer arithmetic. Which may
necessitate a different and more monolithic architecture -- one where
everything is done/controled in&by the application itself, as opposed
to using jack. Given the limited screen real estate available, how
much can you expect to successfully control and mix simultaneously
anyways?
PPS: The successful apps figure out dedicated gestural/haptic/vocal
interfaces to control all the knobs-and-dials underneath, e.g..
http://smule.com/ 's http://ocarina.smule.com/ (see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHtCAAj8jFI ).
PPPS: speaking of having a complete "Linux" stack , what about WebOS
and the HP Touchpad? http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/06/hp-touchpad/
tl;dr
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
11:40 a.m.
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Niels Mayer <nielsmayer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 (
https://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-…
). I'm sure that it will be easier to create handheld multimedia
applications on an in-production and widely-distributed, supported
product that supports the full stack of libs and development tools
already in use by the LAD community....
Just to clarify, the N9, and N950(The 'developer' device that most of
the existing community really wants over the n9) isn't running Meego,
but instead is running Maemo Harmattan, which is primarily Maemo, with
the Meego development API implemented on top of it. Could make a
difference in performance and support.
Not to mention of course that the current CEO of Nokia, Stephen Elop,
is a former MS guy that has insisted that even if the N9 is a success
Nokia won't be producing any more handsets based around Meego (Or
Maemo/Harmattan is the common understanding) and instead will be
running Windows Phone 7, to the effect of he has even 'leaked' videos
of nearly identical hardware running WP7 with the only conceivable
reason to most people is to help ensure that the Maemo/Harmattan N9 or
even Meego is not a success. Whether the latter part of that is the
real reason or not is not certain but I haven't come up with a better
reason either at this point.
Seablade
4 Jul
4 Jul
2:04 a.m.
New subject: MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Sunday, July 03, 2011 04:40:22 am Thomas Vecchione wrote:
Just to clarify, the N9, and N950(The
'developer' device
that most of the existing community really wants over
the n9) isn't running Meego, but instead is running
Maemo Harmattan, which is primarily Maemo, with the
Meego development API implemented on top of it. Could
make a difference in performance and support.
Do we really need to carry this MeeGo/Harmattan FUD outside
of the MeeGo community? Yes, Harmattan is not a purist form
of MeeGo... but the developer differences aren't all that
great.
Not to mention of course that the current CEO of
Nokia,
Stephen Elop, is a former MS guy that has insisted that
even if the N9 is a success Nokia won't be producing any
more handsets based around Meego (Or Maemo/Harmattan is
Yes, this is an excellent reason to not get an N9. It is
the reason why I will not be getting an N9.
It is not a reason to *NOT* develop for MeeGo. Nokia
doesn't own MeeGo and never has. MeeGo is not dead, nor
dying.
Yes, if you develop for MeeGo, you'll be an early adopter.
If you're developing apps you should target the N9 and/or
the AppUp (x86-based) stores.
-gabriel
4:48 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Gabriel M. Beddingfield
<gabrbedd(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, July 03, 2011 04:40:22 am Thomas Vecchione
wrote:
Actually it isn't FUD because it is true, and isn't meant to spread
fear uncertainty or doubt, just to explain that there is an actual
difference. You are correct in that if you develop for the Meego API,
it shouldn't present to much difference, but it is something that must
be kept in mind in my opinion in case you do find a difference.
Just to clarify, the N9, and N950(The
'developer' device
that most of the existing community really wants over
the n9) isn't running Meego, but instead is running
Maemo Harmattan, which is primarily Maemo, with the
Meego development API implemented on top of it. Could
make a difference in performance and support.
Do we really need to carry this MeeGo/Harmattan FUD outside
of the MeeGo community? Yes, Harmattan is not a purist form
of MeeGo... but the developer differences aren't all that
great. Yes, this is an excellent reason to not get an N9. It
is
the reason why I will not be getting an N9.
It is not a reason to *NOT* develop for MeeGo. Nokia
doesn't own MeeGo and never has. MeeGo is not dead, nor
dying.
You seem to think I was suggesting it was. I was responding directly
to the mailings suggesting the N9 itself, nothing more and nothing
less.
Personally I think there are far better reasons not to get an N9, but
to each there own. I don't have much opinions on Meego itself in
general right now aside from there isn't really a good strong consumer
phone coming out that I know of that is scheduled to use it to my
knowledge, which makes me hesitant to spend to much time developing
for it personally, a shame as I suspect based off my experience with
Maemo that I would like it more. Yes LG supposedly has some in the
workings, but I haven't heard much to make me believe they will be out
anytime soon at the least.
Once again I am not saying don't develop for it, that is a decision up
to each individual developer, just that it should be approached with
caution at this point IMO before to much time is spent on it.
Seablade
3:44 p.m.
On 07/02/2011 10:46 PM, Niels Mayer wrote:
Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the
difficulties of
getting decent audio performance on Android, what about not using
Android and using good ol' Linux instead?
A small note here. As noted by Jeff, the "Android penetration" is a serious
argument in its favor.
Now, Android has a somehow deficient internal audio stack, and it's sort of
big-brother'ized by Google..
Well, it's not the end of the story.
I am often amazed by the dynamism of the Android ROM community. Android is
largely open sourced and many developers work on custom ROMs as can be seen on
the XDA forums. Every day or so a new ROM or some other system fix pops up.
And it's not a marginal phenomenon. In the "Top paid apps", ROM Manager, an
app
for easy ROM installation/switching, is #11, and IIRC it was #4 a few weeks ago.
What this means is that there are plenty of users who customize their system. I
know that's precisely why some of them got an Android device instead of an
iPhone/iPad.
What about audio? For example, Project Voodoo provides audio enhancements, such
as input level reduction which can be a problem when recording loud stuff:
http://project-voodoo.org/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=806195
And I wouldn't be surprised to see a ROM claiming to provide low latency audio
on a fair range of popular devices, in the coming weeks or months. A such
package could also include some popular Linux software.
Ok, it's a bit of a jungle... But it's about freedom too.
--
Olivier
5:23 p.m.
New subject: MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Saturday, July 02, 2011 03:46:30 pm Niels Mayer wrote:
Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the
difficulties of getting decent audio performance on
Android, what about not using Android and using good ol'
Linux instead?
Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 (
I would like to voice my opinion that developing Audio apps
for/on MeeGo is an excellent option. The only problem
(today) is that there aren't very many MeeGo devices
shipping. (To date it's mostly netbooks and tablets, but no
handhelds.) This will change over time.
MeeGo is a Linux stack... here's the caveats:
- There is no JACK, so you can't have a hard
dependency on JACK.
- You probably won't be able to get RT scheduling.
- You must play nice with pulseaudio, and you should
avoid using pasuspender as a workaround. I recommend
using "the safe alsa subset."
- The "MeeGo API" (i.e. Qt and especially QtQuick) is
the recommended API to use... but you can still dip
into ALSA. There's provisions for things like GTK+,
but with limited cross-platform support. No fltk or
wxWidgets... and don't use Xlib if you can help it
(it works, but doesn't work right).
- There is not standard "desktop" environment in MeeGo.
Vendors are expected to provide their own custom
"user experience." That's the reason why you want
to stick with the "MeeGo API" -- so that you'll work
on all these different devices.
-gabriel
5:38 p.m.
New subject: MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
Oops...
On Monday, July 04, 2011 10:23:36 am Gabriel M. Beddingfield
wrote:
Oops.. the N9 is a handheld, and is MeeGo.
(And yes, seablade... this was a Freudian Slip!)
-gabriel
Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 (
[SNIP]
devices shipping. (To date it's mostly netbooks and
tablets, but no handhelds.) This will change over time.
4690
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Gabriel M. Beddingfield -
Niels Mayer -
Olivier Guilyardi -
Paul Davis -
Robin Gareus -
Thomas Vecchione