1 Jul
2021
1 Jul
'21
2:48 a.m.
Somebody said on GitHub that "Pipewire is the soon to be successor to
Jack/Pulseaudio".
I ran a quick search in this ML and couldn't find any mentions of it in
the last few years.
Is Pipewire viewed like this by the wider community? Does anybody have
experience using it?
https://pipewire.org/
Thanks,
Yuri
1 Jul
1 Jul
2:59 a.m.
On 7/1/21 12:48 AM, Yuri wrote:
Somebody said on GitHub that "Pipewire is the
soon to be successor to
Jack/Pulseaudio".
Yes, and ALSA as well to some extent. To applications pipewire looks
like a running JACK server, or pulseaudio or like an ALSA device. So
existing apps do not have to be changed.
Search this list archives from 2018. There was a discussion of the
framework.
Is Pipewire viewed like this by the wider community?
Does anybody have
experience using it?
Yes, all Fedora 34 users, and some Arch'ers too. It comes up regularly
on the Ardour forum in recent months, top 3: [1,2,3].
There are still a few rough edges, but it matures quickly.
--
robin
[1]
https://discourse.ardour.org/t/has-anyone-experimented-with-pipewire-yet/10…
[2]
https://discourse.ardour.org/t/solved-is-there-a-simple-definitive-answer-t…
[3] https://discourse.ardour.org/t/god-save-pipewire/105691
3:12 a.m.
The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is
no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know
what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire
if it was working on 18.04.
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 3:59 PM Robin Gareus <robin(a)gareus.org> wrote:
On 7/1/21 12:48 AM, Yuri wrote:
--
Borasky Research Journal https://www.znmeb.mobi
Markovs of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Somebody said on GitHub that "Pipewire is
the soon to be successor to
Jack/Pulseaudio".
Yes, and ALSA as well to some extent. To applications pipewire looks
like a running JACK server, or pulseaudio or like an ALSA device. So
existing apps do not have to be changed.
Search this list archives from 2018. There was a discussion of the
framework.
Is Pipewire viewed like this by the wider
community? Does anybody have
experience using it?
Yes, all Fedora 34 users, and some Arch'ers too. It comes up regularly
on the Ardour forum in recent months, top 3: [1,2,3].
There are still a few rough edges, but it matures quickly.
--
robin
[1]
https://discourse.ardour.org/t/has-anyone-experimented-with-pipewire-yet/10…
[2]
https://discourse.ardour.org/t/solved-is-there-a-simple-definitive-answer-t…
[3] https://discourse.ardour.org/t/god-save-pipewire/105691
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev 
10:01 a.m.
The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does
not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't
support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it
matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04.
--
Great music, chat and even some wit.
Join me every Friday evening at 8pm for
Keith's Music Box:
Follow: https://www.facebook.com/KMBEngland
On Friday go to: https://www.mixcloud.com/live/KeithsMusicBox/
5:27 p.m.
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100
Keith Edmunds <kae(a)midnighthax.com> wrote:
Is pipewire runnable on the raspberry Pi?
Anyone tried it?
--
Will J Godfrey
https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
The biggest
issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't
support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it
matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04. 
2 Jul
2 Jul
3 a.m.
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote:
i would suggest that edward had the rational perspective
the distro is not at fault for "failing" to support something,
which did not exist, or was very immature, or proprietary, when
the dirsto was released
the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to decide
which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18
was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated
to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either
i do not see any "problem" for anyone (yet) - use pipewire if
you want to - switch distros if you must - but ... if good 'ol
(lean and mean) JACK does not remain as an option, for those who
do not need pipewire's extra bells-and-whistles, that could be a
problem
The biggest
issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't
support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it
matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04.
3:33 a.m.
Let me say a bit more about my situation. I run a mix of Windows 10/11
(including Windows Subsystem for Linux) and Linux audio software. Some
is proprietary with a corporate support model, some is bundled with
hardware (NVIDIA Jetsons and Bela) and supported by the hardware
vendor, and some is open source projects, either my own or publicly
accessible in more recent versions than what's on the distro.
The particular incident that relates to Pipewire arose from the latter
category - I saw some interesting writing about Pipewire and wanted to
experiment with it on the NVIDIA Jetsons. They ship with an
NVIDIA-supported operating system called Linux for Tegra (L4T), which
is arm64 Ubuntu 18.04 LTS "Bionic Beaver" with some modifications and
enhancements for the hardware platform. When I downloaded Pipewire and
tried to install it from source, it did not build because some
libraries on 18.04 are too old.
In this case I do *not* have the option to upgrade to 20.04 until
NVIDIA gets around to upgrading L4T to 20.04, which seems like a major
problem in the making for all of their other users who've built on
18.04. I'm guessing it would also be a major problem for Pipewire to
backport to the 18.04 libraries - they may depend on functionality not
present.But if they could backport it, I'd certainly test it if it
offers something better than JACK on the hardware.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:03 PM bill-auger <bill-auger(a)peers.community> wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote:
i would suggest that edward had the rational perspective
the distro is not at fault for "failing" to support something,
which did not exist, or was very immature, or proprietary, when
the dirsto was released
the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to decide
which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18
was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated
to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either
i do not see any "problem" for anyone (yet) - use pipewire if
you want to - switch distros if you must - but ... if good 'ol
(lean and mean) JACK does not remain as an option, for those who
do not need pipewire's extra bells-and-whistles, that could be a
problem
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
--
Borasky Research Journal https://www.znmeb.mobi
Markovs of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
The
biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't
support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it
matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04. 
5:58 p.m.
On 7/2/21 1:32 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
The particular incident that relates to Pipewire arose
from the latter
category - I saw some interesting writing about Pipewire and wanted to
experiment with it on the NVIDIA Jetsons. They ship with an
NVIDIA-supported operating system called Linux for Tegra (L4T), which
is arm64 Ubuntu 18.04 LTS "Bionic Beaver" with some modifications and
enhancements for the hardware platform. When I downloaded Pipewire and
tried to install it from source, it did not build because some
libraries on 18.04 are too old.
I assume the Jetsons are not your everyday machines, probably even headless.
I would argue that the main reason to run pipewire is seamless
integration of pro-audio needs with pulseaudio convenience on your
everyday office machine.
So if you "just" want to integrate the jetsons into you audio production
workflow, install jack and zita-njbridge and never look back. Also makes
for a lot more deterministic system.
As to backporting: that is a burden on the developers that takes
resources away from developing. Pipewire is a fast-moving, very new
project. You are on a customized embedded (and thus a little slower
moving) platform. That is a problem, but if you want to combine embedded
with cutting edge, you have to find a platform where the vendor tracks
the latest stuff. The only community big enough to warrant that expense
right now and deliver something close to "latest" is the Raspberry Pi,
and, to a lesser degree, Armbian-supported boards. I know it doesn't
help you, but I guess it's a fact of life.
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487
Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
4 Jul
4 Jul
11 p.m.
On Thu, Jul 01, 2021 at 06:57:59PM -0400, bill-auger wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote:
the distro is not at fault for "failing" to support something,
which did not exist, or was very immature, or proprietary, when
the dirsto was released
The distro is at fault for not packaging it.
the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to
decide
which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18
was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated
to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either
Is there anything that prevents you from compiling and building pipewire on 18.04?
If not, then it is a distro problem. They have not packaged pipewire for 18.04, and they
probably won't package it since 18.04 is a stable release so major new changes
won't be made. It would be possible to add it in as a backport, that could optionally
be added.
--
Gordonjcp
6 Jul
6 Jul
12:51 p.m.
Le Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:57:59 -0400,
bill-auger <bill-auger(a)peers.community> a écrit :
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote:
> > The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support
> > Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
>
> I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04
> doesn't support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire
> one. If it matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of
> upgrading to 20.04.
Distros do what they can. If your favourite software is not included,
you can contribute to it by at least making a bug report asking for its
addition.
the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to
decide
which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18
was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated
to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either
Software developers make software, not distribution. They like when a
distribution support their software, but they are not responsible for
that.
Also, if a given software builds and works on a given distribution, as
example the distro(s) of the dev(s), it should work with all other
distributions where the dependencies are satisfied. For pipewire, as
systemd is an optional run time depend, it should builds and works on
all distributions providing alsa, dbus, python and meson, which must be
something like all not very old distributions.
So again, if your favourite distro did not include pipewire, you
can consider to contribute to it, or for an outdated distribution, to
one of its external repository or overlay.
Cheers,
Dominique
1:04 p.m.
On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 10:51:17 +0200
Dominique Michel <dominique.c.michel(a)gmail.com> wrote:
For pipewire, as
systemd is an optional run time depend
Why?
What on earth has this got to do with systemd? Although I suppose I shouldn't be
surprised with it coming from redhat.
--
Will J Godfrey
https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
1:51 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 10:04:28AM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote:
What on earth has this got to do with systemd?
Although I
suppose I shouldn't be surprised with it coming from redhat.
I've started moving away from systemd on all systems. Not
finished yet but getting close.
Had a look at the PW docs, and really didn't like what I saw.
The thing looks horribly complicated, lots of abstraction for
its own sake, and dependencies all over the place (dbus, polkit,
systemd,...)
On a more fundamental level, I don't want the 'desktop' and 'pro'
audio systems to be unified. It would be even worse than having all
those pesty autoconnecting Jack apps. And for the 'pro' side, I'd
prefer something as simple and autonomous as possible.
Ciao,
--
FA
3 Jul
3 Jul
5:11 a.m.
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:11:47 -0700 M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does
not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is
no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know
what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire
if it was working on 18.04.
I've just seen a response from SOURAV DAS posted on 11 May to:
https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2021/05/install-latest-pipewire-ppa-ub…
Saying "Hi, the PPA maintainer here. Now added supports for Ubuntu
18.04 also."
Linux Mint 20.1 (Ubuntu 20.04) here, so haven't tested it.
--
John.
It's better to be an outlier than an out and out liar.
8:10 a.m.
Cool! I'll check it out!
On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:12 PM John Murphy <rosegardener(a)freeode.co.uk> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:11:47 -0700 M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
--
Borasky Research Journal https://www.znmeb.mobi
Markovs of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it
does not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is
no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know
what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire
if it was working on 18.04.
I've just seen a response from SOURAV DAS posted on 11 May to:
https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2021/05/install-latest-pipewire-ppa-ub…
Saying "Hi, the PPA maintainer here. Now added supports for Ubuntu
18.04 also."
Linux Mint 20.1 (Ubuntu 20.04) here, so haven't tested it.
--
John.
It's better to be an outlier than an out and out liar.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev 
10 Jul
10 Jul
9:19 a.m.
On Sat, 3 Jul 2021, John Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:11:47 -0700 M. Edward (Ed)
Borasky wrote:
18.04 is of interest because... after that Ubuntu drops 32 bit ...
everything they could get away with. It is for this reason I have switched
at least one of my computers to debian. Not of interest to linux audio in
general, except this 32bit laptop did save a recording session when the
"recording machine" with win 10 showed up without the proper driver for
the interface which worked just fine on this linux box because the
interface was usb 2.0.
However, to be more inline with the topic: beware that if you wish to use
pipewire on ubuntu, the above ppa is required because none of the releases
keep up with this quickly changing software. Also, be aware that (last I
heard) the ffado backend is not supported. The expectation is that the
alsa drivers will just work. If the current kernel will actually load the
snd-<fwcardtype> (mine does not right now), the performance is even worse
than usb boxes. So for firewire, jack is still king and usb 2.0 audio can
still not match most firewire devices despite their age. With a properly
setup pipewire, pipewire should auto bridge to jackd... I have not
achieved this yet but I have not had time really either. Getting a boat in
the water so the family could spend last week "messing about with boats"
has been more important ;)
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it
does not support
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is
no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know
what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire
if it was working on 18.04.
I've just seen a response from SOURAV DAS posted on 11 May to:
https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2021/05/install-latest-pipewire-ppa-ub…
Saying "Hi, the PPA maintainer here. Now added supports for Ubuntu
18.04 also."
Linux Mint 20.1 (Ubuntu 20.04) here, so haven't tested it.
8 Jul
8 Jul
7:34 a.m.
On 6/30/21 3:58 PM, Robin Gareus wrote:
Yes, and ALSA as well to some extent. To applications
pipewire looks
like a running JACK server, or pulseaudio or like an ALSA device. So
existing apps do not have to be changed.
When the Jack option is enabled in Pipewire it expects Jack >= 1.9.10 to
be installed, despite Pipewire being Jack's successor.
Yuri
4 Jul
4 Jul
8:36 p.m.
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote:
[...]
Does anybody have experience using it?
https://pipewire.org/
Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base
(Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work. The only thing
I had to set was the Profile for the CM106 Like sound device I use,
in PaVuCtl to Digital Stereo Duplex (IEC958).
One small problem for me is that jack_transport locate doesn't work,
but I expect it will soon. May be related to Jackdbus support which
is "very tedious to implement" Wim Taymans said.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/issues/819
--
John.
More diplodocus than diplomatic.
8:45 p.m.
A few weeks ago, before my Ubuntu Studio 20.04 + KX Studio beastie died --
it was an 11-year-old laptop that finally got knocked off of a table -- I
tried Pipewire and completely messed up the system. Prior to that I had
Cadence nicely integrating ALSA, PulseAudio, and JACK. At least, it seemed
to be okay. I'm not much of an expert, but it was really easy to route
various sources and sinks with Catia and Claudia, from within the Cadence
"Tools" tab.
Now I've got a brand new System76 running Pop!_OS. I've added some of the
Ubuntu Studio and KX Studio applications to it, but I've been afraid to try
Pipewire again. I haven't even managed to get Cadence working like I had
previously.
So, is there a "For Dummies" guide that would apply to Pop!_OS?
5 Jul
5 Jul
5:25 a.m.
On 7/4/21 6:35 PM, John Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote:
[...]
Yes, the project is making huge progress. Also thanks to the many early
adopters filing helpful issue reports. Wim and his team address them at
incredible speed.
If you use it, be prepared to live on the bleeding edge, e.g. until last
week pipewire didn't set realtime permissions correctly, and the week
before had a crashing bug with Ardour querying ports when 3rd party apps
are involved. Fixed now.
So update early, update often
--
robin
Does anybody have experience using it?
https://pipewire.org/
Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base
(Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work.
6 Jul
6 Jul
6:28 p.m.
On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 03:25:09 +0200 Robin Gareus wrote:
On 7/4/21 6:35 PM, John Murphy wrote:
I may have to do one of those. I think James Szinger's prediction [1]
is accurate, although, while I am confused I am not yet "wailing".
He says the proposal "does not mention any native tools.", by which
he may mean the jack-tools package itself, which is the source of my
partially working jack_transport (I use it most days via a QProcess).
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote:
[...]
Yes, the project is making huge progress. Also thanks to the many early
adopters filing helpful issue reports. Wim and his team address them at
incredible speed. Does anybody have experience using it?
https://pipewire.org/
Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base
(Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work. If you use it, be prepared to live on the bleeding
edge, e.g. until last
week pipewire didn't set realtime permissions correctly, and the week
before had a crashing bug with Ardour querying ports when 3rd party apps
are involved. Fixed now.
So update early, update often
I think I read that the PPA is updated every fifteen days, so I'll be
a bit behind the sharpest edge.
[1]
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org…
--
John.
7:27 p.m.
On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 15:27:53 +0100 I wrote:
I may have to do one of those. I think James
Szinger's prediction [1]
is accurate, although, while I am confused I am not yet "wailing".
Now wailing with joy having found a workaround. Simply need to send
'play' to jack_transport after any 'locate'. Strange, but true.
--
John.
7 Jul
7 Jul
12:17 a.m.
New problem. I run jack_capture, at certain times, via cron.
Can run the script manually and it works fine, but just doesn't start
from the cronjob. I have no idea why.
Same story with arecord and pw-record (which has no -d duration). Script
works fine from command line, but no joy from the crontab (the thing I do
at the same time on the next line, works).
It's a head scratcher. Something I'm missing, but it's definitely staying,
even if I have to set my alarm clock to remind me to run my script.
--
John.
6 Jul
6 Jul
9:21 p.m.
On 7/4/21 6:25 PM, Robin Gareus wrote:
On 7/4/21 6:35 PM, John Murphy wrote:
Hmmm, yes, realtime is fixed now?? (it was returning hardwired
priorities (!) and was generally a mess). But part of the problem is
rtkit itself which will not let you do what you need to do if you know
what you are doing. Maybe now not using rtkit works fine.
I did a quick test last week and the results with ardour were bad (up to
date Fedora 34), for a complex session it would hang forever or crash.
And I have seen a big difference when using jacktrip - pipewire triggers
long dropouts when new clients connect, jackd is fine. So I suspect it
has (had?) long delays when compared to jackd when reordering the graph
when new clients connect or new ports get created. I still have to try
to debug this to get more data, time time time...
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote:
[...]
Yes, the project is making huge progress. Also thanks to the many early
adopters filing helpful issue reports. Wim and his team address them at
incredible speed.
If you use it, be prepared to live on the bleeding edge, e.g. until last
week pipewire didn't set realtime permissions correctly, and the week
before had a crashing bug with Ardour querying ports when 3rd party apps
are involved. Fixed now. Does anybody have experience using it?
https://pipewire.org/
Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base
(Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work. So update early, update often
Yup...
(but so far for production I have to use jackd)
-- Fernando
1015
days inactive
1024
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
22 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
bill-auger -
Dominique Michel -
Fernando Lopez-Lezcano -
Fons Adriaensen -
Gordonjcp -
John Murphy -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Keith Edmunds -
Kevin Cole -
Len Ovens -
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky -
Robin Gareus -
Will Godfrey -
Yuri