5 Jul
2011
5 Jul
'11
9:12 p.m.
Hi,
Looking around the LV2 Trac at http://lv2plug.in/trac/, I don't see any simple
introduction on how to create a minimal plugin. Is there any plan for this?
I think that a gain plugin tutorial could be a way to show how to say Hello
World in LV2. Something very short, which include proper links to reference
documentation. Not a long story as "LV2 programming for the complete idiot"
which IIUC also happens to be obsolete.
In addition to helping the newbie find his way, one advantage of a short and
simple tutorial is that it should be easy to maintain when LV2 evolves.
And as an alternative or companion to the tutorial, the source code for a
minimal (official) example would be great. I mean, the kind of example that you
find in JACK source code. Does a such thing already exist?
--
Olivier
5 Jul
5 Jul
9:18 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Olivier Guilyardi <list(a)samalyse.com> wrote:
Hi,
Looking around the LV2 Trac at http://lv2plug.in/trac/, I don't see any simple
introduction on how to create a minimal plugin. Is there any plan for this?
I'm not part of the LV2 effort, but I think I can say with the
greatest confidence that whether there are plans or not, what will
actually happen will only be the result of people simply doing the
work. In other words, someone just has to provide this, and suddenly
there will be a plan for it.
9:48 p.m.
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 02:12:40 pm Olivier Guilyardi
wrote:
Looking around the LV2 Trac at
http://lv2plug.in/trac/, I
don't see any simple introduction on how to create a
minimal plugin. Is there any plan for this?
It used to exist. Looks like it got lost while someone was
sexing up the website.
I've uploaded the code here:
http://gitorious.org/gabrbedd
We still need to track down the text.
-gabriel
10:11 p.m.
On 07/05/2011 09:47 PM, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 02:12:40 pm Olivier
Guilyardi
wrote:
Looking around the LV2 Trac at
http://lv2plug.in/trac/, I
don't see any simple introduction on how to create a
minimal plugin. Is there any plan for this?
It used to exist. Looks like it got lost while someone was
sexing up the website.
I've uploaded the code here:
http://gitorious.org/gabrbedd We still need to track down the text.
Thanks Gabriel.
Is this code ok according to the latest LV2 specs? Is it a good candidate for
being an official example? Is there anything important to add/remove/change?
--
Olivier
10:25 p.m.
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 03:11:32 pm Olivier Guilyardi
wrote:
Is this code ok according to the latest LV2 specs? Is
it
a good candidate for being an official example? Is there
anything important to add/remove/change?
It's up-to-date with 3.0. I don't know about 4.0.
...and the C example used to *be* the official example.
-gabriel
10:34 p.m.
On 07/05/2011 10:24 PM, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 03:11:32 pm Olivier
Guilyardi
wrote:
Okay, then, if it is still compliant, it would be nice to have it in there:
http://lv2plug.in/trac/browser/trunk
Also, I don't see the URL of the SVN repo mentioned anywhere on the website.
There's just a download link with tarballs.
--
Olivier
Is this code ok according to the latest LV2
specs? Is it
a good candidate for being an official example? Is there
anything important to add/remove/change?
It's up-to-date with 3.0. I don't know about 4.0.
...and the C example used to *be* the official example.
10:44 p.m.
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 03:34:15 pm Olivier Guilyardi
wrote:
Okay, then, if it is still compliant, it would be nice
to
have it in there: http://lv2plug.in/trac/browser/trunk
I sent an e-mail to the LV2 ML to see if anyone can find the
old tutorial text.
Also, I don't see the URL of the SVN repo
mentioned
anywhere on the website. There's just a download link
with tarballs.
Because SVN is deprecated for everyone except the likes of
drobilla. Use the tarballs.
-gabriel
6 Jul
6 Jul
2:03 a.m.
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 15:44 -0500, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 03:34:15 pm Olivier
Guilyardi
wrote:
Sorry, the hosting migration has been a bit rougher than expected. I
have a dump of the entire Wiki, which will be restored soon.
That said, I agree with the original premise that well-documented
*examples* are what is most needed, by a long shot. "Tutorials" and
other prosey things that aren't working examples and few people are
likely to bother with, not so much.
Okay, then, if it is still compliant, it would be
nice to
have it in there: http://lv2plug.in/trac/browser/trunk
I sent an e-mail to the LV2 ML to see if anyone can find the
old tutorial text. > Also, I don't see the URL of the SVN repo
mentioned
> anywhere on the website. There's just a download link
> with tarballs.
Please sign up and modify the site as you see fit, the entire thing
(except of course generated docs and such) is a Wiki.
Because SVN is deprecated for everyone except the
likes of
drobilla. Use the tarballs.
? I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, but the entire point of
the SVN repository is to make it easy for others to contribute (and I am
not the only one with commit access, and many people track it). Patches
against the repository are most welcome, and the best way to contribute
code that will be maintained at lv2plug.in. All tarballs and
documentation and such are generated from it. Appropriate contributions
(e.g. example plugins, extensions, documentation, tools) will be gladly
added. Eventually I think it might be nice to do a big "LV2 Universe"
tarball release of everything in there, or something, but I am not sure
of the form this should take yet. Regardless, the repository is
definitely where things should go.
-dr
2:23 a.m.
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 07:03:28 pm David Robillard wrote:
My bad. I was just thinking "don't install lv2core from
SVN... use the tarball."
-gabriel
Because SVN is
deprecated for everyone except the likes
of drobilla. Use the tarballs.
? I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, but the
entire point of the SVN repository is to make it easy
for others to contribute (and I am not the only one with
commit access, and many people track it). Patches
4:43 a.m.
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 19:23 -0500, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 07:03:28 pm David Robillard
wrote:
My bad. I was just thinking "don't install lv2core from
SVN... use the tarball."
Well, sure, it's a development repository, the usual disclaimers apply.
However, using the SVN version should never break anything, at least as
far as core is concerned (the unreleased extensions, however, may be
changed at any time)
-dr
Because
SVN is deprecated for everyone except the likes
of drobilla. Use the tarballs.
? I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, but the
entire point of the SVN repository is to make it easy
for others to contribute (and I am not the only one with
commit access, and many people track it). Patches
1:40 p.m.
On 07/06/2011 02:03 AM, David Robillard wrote:
I actually don't know the SVN URL, and I think that a page listing all download
options is better written by official maintainers.
--
Olivier
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 15:44 -0500, Gabriel M.
Beddingfield wrote:
I agree.
For now, maybe that you could just review and commit the amplifier example
mentioned by Gabriel. I think that a trunk/examples/ folder would be nice.
That said, what about a Hello World host example? I know there are various ways
to parse Turtle, and a host example may be a bit Lilv-specific. But having
minimal host+plugin examples on the official LV2 website would be useful. Or at
least a link to a simple Lilv host example.
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 03:34:15 pm Olivier
Guilyardi
wrote:
Sorry, the hosting migration has been a bit rougher than expected. I
have a dump of the entire Wiki, which will be restored soon.
That said, I agree with the original premise that well-documented
*examples* are what is most needed, by a long shot. "Tutorials" and
other prosey things that aren't working examples and few people are
likely to bother with, not so much. Okay, then, if it is still compliant, it would be
nice to
have it in there: http://lv2plug.in/trac/browser/trunk
I sent an e-mail to the LV2
ML to see if anyone can find the
old tutorial text. > Also, I
don't see the URL of the SVN repo mentioned
> anywhere on the website. There's just a download link
> with tarballs.
Please sign up and modify the site as you see fit, the entire thing
(except of course generated docs and such) is a Wiki.
7:42 p.m.
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 13:40 +0200, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
I actually don't know the SVN URL, and I think that a page listing all download
options is better written by official maintainers.
http://lv2plug.in/repo/
-dr
On 07/06/2011 02:03 AM, David Robillard wrote:
Will do, but I am currently focused on making example plugins of a
slightly more advanced nature (in particular, demonstrating persistence,
use of files, and control via messages).
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 15:44 -0500, Gabriel M.
Beddingfield wrote:
I agree.
For now, maybe that you could just review and commit the amplifier example
mentioned by Gabriel. I think that a trunk/examples/ folder would be nice. On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 03:34:15 pm Olivier
Guilyardi
wrote:
Sorry, the hosting migration has been a bit rougher than expected. I
have a dump of the entire Wiki, which will be restored soon.
That said, I agree with the original premise that well-documented
*examples* are what is most needed, by a long shot. "Tutorials" and
other prosey things that aren't working examples and few people are
likely to bother with, not so much. Okay, then, if it is still compliant, it would be
nice to
have it in there: http://lv2plug.in/trac/browser/trunk
I sent an e-mail to the LV2
ML to see if anyone can find the
old tutorial text. That said, what about a Hello World host example? I
know there are various ways
to parse Turtle, and a host example may be a bit Lilv-specific. But having
minimal host+plugin examples on the official LV2 website would be useful. Or at
least a link to a simple Lilv host example.
In previous releases, there was one (lv2jack). However, I've decided to
move this to a separate project and make it a bit more powerful to serve
as an actually useful and correct host while remaining smallish.
Coming soon, dubbed Jalv (_Ja_ck _LV_2):
http://svn.drobilla.net/lad/trunk/jalv/
Personally I think plugin examples are far more needed, since anyone
writing a host is inherently going to know how to look at a library API
and figure out how to use the thing anyway. I deliberately keep my
libraries separate from anything "official" LV2.
> Also, I don't see the URL of the SVN repo
mentioned
> anywhere on the website. There's just a download link
> with tarballs.
Please sign up and modify the site as you see fit, the entire thing
(except of course generated docs and such) is a Wiki.
7 Jul
7 Jul
9:29 p.m.
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 13:40 +0200, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
[...]
For now, maybe that you could just review and commit
the amplifier example
mentioned by Gabriel. I think that a trunk/examples/ folder would be nice.
http://lv2plug.in/repo/trunk/plugins/eg-amp.lv2/
Note you have to check out the top-level of the repository to build
this, e.g.:
svn co http://lv2plug.in/repo/trunk lv2-svn
I am working on adding a sampler example (contributed by Gabriel M.
Beddingfield and James Morris) which will demonstrate a bit more of an
advanced plugin (which references external files, persists state, etc)
Other contributions of exampley plugins are, of course, welcome.
-dr
9:38 p.m.
On Thursday, July 07, 2011 02:29:33 pm David Robillard
wrote:
I am working on adding a sampler example (contributed
by
Gabriel M. Beddingfield and James Morris) which will
demonstrate a bit more of an advanced plugin (which
references external files, persists state, etc)
FYI, I've put that example here as well:
https://gitorious.org/gabrbedd/lv2-sampler-example
-gabriel
10:03 p.m.
On 07/07/2011 09:29 PM, David Robillard wrote:
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 13:40 +0200, Olivier Guilyardi
wrote:
[...]
Thank you David :)
--
Olivier
For now, maybe that you could just review and
commit the amplifier example
mentioned by Gabriel. I think that a trunk/examples/ folder would be nice.
http://lv2plug.in/repo/trunk/plugins/eg-amp.lv2/
10:37 p.m.
On Thu, 2011-07-07 at 22:03 +0200, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
On 07/07/2011 09:29 PM, David Robillard wrote:
You're welcome.
Apologies for the delays migrating all the old site data to the new
site. I try not to spend 20 hours a day staring at screens in the
summer as in the winter :)
-dr
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 13:40 +0200, Olivier
Guilyardi wrote:
[...]
Thank you David :) For now, maybe that you could just review and
commit the amplifier example
mentioned by Gabriel. I think that a trunk/examples/ folder would be nice.
http://lv2plug.in/repo/trunk/plugins/eg-amp.lv2/ 
11:52 p.m.
On 7 July 2011 20:29, David Robillard <d(a)drobilla.net> wrote:
I am working on adding a sampler example (contributed by Gabriel M.
Beddingfield and James Morris) which will demonstrate a bit more of an
advanced plugin (which references external files, persists state, etc)
Looking forward to these stretching my coding skills to new limits!
Other contributions of exampley plugins are, of
course, welcome.
-dr
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
6 Jul
6 Jul
6:27 p.m.
2011/7/6 David Robillard <d(a)drobilla.net>et>:
... Eventually I think it might be nice to do a big "LV2 Universe"
tarball release of everything in there,
I can only say YES YES YES to that.
Would you believe, how cumbersome it's been to track, follow and
install LV2 releases ?
(The same unfortunately applies to some of your other apps, ingen, ...)
.., but I am not sure
of the form this should take yet.
A tar.bz2 with any script, that would build and install the whole LV2
devel stuff,
including seldom used dependencies. Plus a README, listing additional
dependencies.
For example: I would not expect GTK+ to be included, but a required
rdf-library I've never heard before...
A second tarball, including all currently known LV2 plugins.
This could be called >>Official-LV2-plugin-pack_2011-08-01.tar.bz2<<
and could be updated regularly.
Thank you for this effort.
Making your work more accessible is much appreciated.
--
E.R.
8:11 p.m.
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 18:27 +0200, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
... So, something like a waf script, and an INSTALL file, and a README
file? Something like, oh I don't know, the ones that have been there
ever since the repository was created? ;)
2011/7/6 David Robillard <d(a)drobilla.net>et>:
Unreleased is unreleased. On purpose. Unreleased things are not
*supposed* to be as widely distributed as released things, because they
are not stable. "Stable" in this case does not mean "it might
crash",
it means that everything related will break catastrophically in the
future. They are not useful unless you are a developer seeking to
participate in the implementation of a new extension, in which case you
use SVN. There are all sorts of things in that repository that are
rotten crap and most definitely should NOT be widely distributed and
used. If it was release suitable, it would be released :P
Extensions are not released until there are at least 2 independent
working implementations of them. I think most would agree this is a
good rule.
For users, there are tarballs of all released extensions, and packagers
have been doing their thing nicely with them. I don't see how it is any
more cumbersome to track LV2 releases than any other project. Tarballs
are released, and announcements are made. What is the problem?
... Eventually I think it might be nice to do a big "LV2 Universe"
tarball release of everything in there,
I can only say YES YES YES to that.
Would you believe, how cumbersome it's been to track, follow and
install LV2 releases ?
(The same unfortunately applies to some of your other apps, ingen, ...) .., but I am
not sure
of the form this should take yet.
A tar.bz2 with any script, that would build and install the whole LV2
devel stuff,
including seldom used dependencies. Plus a README, listing additional
dependencies.
For example: I would not expect GTK+ to be included, but a required
rdf-library I've never heard before... A second tarball, including all currently known LV2
plugins.
This could be called >>Official-LV2-plugin-pack_2011-08-01.tar.bz2<<
and could be updated regularly.
I don't think it's appropriate or wise to create any such "official"
thing. Plugins are written by diverse authors in diverse languages with
diverse build systems. That's sort of the point. Anyone is welcome to
create a meta-package, though, and it would be nice in some cases, but
that is a much more messy task than doing so for extensions, since there
is no standard format for plugin sources (nor could there be).
The scope of plugins is much wider than this wish implies. For example,
LinuxSampler is a known LV2 plugin these days. Ingen will be as well.
Including these things in such a release is clearly inappropriate.
I think actively maintaining, hosting, distributing, and guiding the
development of *extensions* is a job that lv2plug.in should strive to
do, to keep the LV2 ship sailing straight, so to speak. Plugins,
however, are independent projects. The point of a good plugin
specification is to enable independent developers to implement whatever
plugins they see fit. Centralization is not a win.
Thank you for this effort.
You're welcome.
Making your work more accessible is much appreciated.
Don't assume that developers actually *want* everything to be
accessible ;) I assure you several developers are actively working to
design, solidify, implement, and release new extensions that will
provide us with new advanced plugin capabilities as quickly as possible.
-dr
9:19 p.m.
2011/7/6 David Robillard <d(a)drobilla.net>et>:
I thinks it can be. I'm not talking about centralizing different projects, but
*final* distribution centralization, a kind of central mirror for
spread projects.
Take ladspa as an example:
There are X websites with ladspa-packages, containing diverse plugins.
Now every maintainer (and interested user) has to track those sites,
downloading from X locations...
My thought: If there was a central collecting point, most maintainers
could simply download
one tar and make the content ready for their distro.
Plugin creators would also benefit: They simply would have to send
their current sources to the collecting point, knowing it
soon became public and spread.
For users, there are tarballs of all released extensions, ...
Tarballs are released, and announcements are made. What is the problem?
The problem is: tarballs is plural.
For LV2 you have to download x tars, compile, install and
when you're finally done, your new LV2-plugin still doesn't compile,
cause it would have needed an experimental extension...
my experience so far. Ah right. I should wait for the final release ;)
A second
tarball, including all currently known LV2 plugins.
This could be called >>Official-LV2-plugin-pack_2011-08-01.tar.bz2<<
and could be updated regularly.
I don't think it's appropriate or wise to create any such "official"
thing. Plugins are written by diverse authors in diverse languages with
diverse build systems.
.... Centralization is not a win.
I think actively maintaining, hosting, distributing, and guiding the
development of *extensions* is a job that lv2plug.in should ... do ..
So maybe my request should have gone to that address.
Don't assume that developers actually *want* everything to be
accessible ;) I assure you several developers are actively working to
design, solidify, implement, and release new extensions that will
provide us with new advanced plugin capabilities as quickly as possible.
Pleased to hear that :)
--
E.R.
7 Jul
7 Jul
4:35 a.m.
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 21:19 +0200, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
I thinks it can be. I'm not talking about centralizing different projects, but
*final* distribution centralization, a kind of central mirror for
spread projects.
Take ladspa as an example:
There are X websites with ladspa-packages, containing diverse plugins.
Now every maintainer (and interested user) has to track those sites,
downloading from X locations...
My thought: If there was a central collecting point, most maintainers
could simply download
one tar and make the content ready for their distro.
Plugin creators would also benefit: They simply would have to send
their current sources to the collecting point, knowing it
soon became public and spread.
Well, if you have the ability to actually manually do so yourself, then
you have the ability to make a bundle that does it. The build systems
certainly won't actually integrate, so you can't really do much better
than a basic bash script or makefile that does precisely what you would
do manually in the terminal anyway. You could also just make the script
wget the tarballs as well. None of this is difficult, it just requires
someone who actually cares to create and maintain it. Feel free to do
so.
That said, I certainly wouldn't spend time doing it. The usual release
and distribution packaging cycle that everything else uses works just
fine, and I see no reason why this is a special case. When it comes to
releasing software: Weird Is Bad(TM).
-dr
2011/7/6 David Robillard <d(a)drobilla.net>et>:
[...]
A second tarball, including all currently known LV2
plugins.
This could be called >>Official-LV2-plugin-pack_2011-08-01.tar.bz2<<
and could be updated regularly.
I don't think it's appropriate or wise to create any such "official"
thing. Plugins are written by diverse authors in diverse languages with
diverse build systems.
.... Centralization is not a win.
6 Jul
6 Jul
10:21 p.m.
2011/7/6 David Robillard <d(a)drobilla.net>et>:
... So, something like a waf script, and an INSTALL file, and a README
file? Something like, oh I don't know, the ones that have been there
ever since the repository was created? ;)
Indeed - one has to install lv2 from the repository.
Then installation is much simpler than the website download, as I'm
just experiencing,
just use waf.
repo download:
http://lv2plug.in/trac/changeset/273/trunk?old_path=%2F&format=zip
don't forget to run lv2config
Then checkout drobilla
svn co http://svn.drobilla.net/lad/trunk drobillad
and
./waf configure --prefix=/usr --bindings --jack-dbus --dyn-manifest
--
E.R.
7 Jul
7 Jul
4:38 a.m.
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 22:21 +0200, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
2011/7/6 David Robillard <d(a)drobilla.net>et>:
My top-level repository contains several unreleased things, and
accordingly depends on the LV2 SVN repository. All is as it should be.
-dr
... So, something like a waf script, and an INSTALL file, and a README
file? Something like, oh I don't know, the ones that have been there
ever since the repository was created? ;)
Indeed - one has to install lv2 from the repository.
Then installation is much simpler than the website download, as I'm
just experiencing,
just use waf.
repo download:
http://lv2plug.in/trac/changeset/273/trunk?old_path=%2F&format=zip
don't forget to run lv2config
Then checkout drobilla
svn co http://svn.drobilla.net/lad/trunk drobillad
and
./waf configure --prefix=/usr --bindings --jack-dbus --dyn-manifest
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linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
22 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
David Robillard -
Emanuel Rumpf -
Gabriel M. Beddingfield -
James Morris -
Olivier Guilyardi -
Paul Davis