28 Jun
2005
28 Jun
'05
10:14 a.m.
Hi!
I am trying to correct some factual errors in wikipedia regarding FM
synthesis (aka phase modulation.)
The page in qustion is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulation_synthesis
My current corrections are in italics. Further corrections appreciated
I am currently looking at the Casio section near the end (regarding
phase distortion.) Wasn't this technique developed way back in the 60's
by french academics?
mvh // Jens M Andreasen
(and yes, somebody ought to rewrite the whole page from scratch :))
--
10:58 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 08:38 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
Jens M Andreasen wrote:
Eh? I promise not to have wrotten that one (although it is truely
inspired! :)
/ja
(and yes, somebody ought to rewrite the whole page
from scratch :))
But certainly you'll want to leave this gem:
Reference
J. Chowning, "The Synthesis of Complex Audio Spectra by Means of
Frequency Copulation"
^^^^^^^^^^
--
11:13 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 03:05:10PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 08:38 -0400, Dave Phillips
wrote:
Are you sure ?
s/Frequency/Frequent/ :-)
--
FA
J. Chowning, "The Synthesis of Complex Audio
Spectra by Means of
Frequency Copulation"
s/copulation/modulation
11:29 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 15:13 +0200, Alfons Adriaensen wrote:
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 03:05:10PM +0200, Jens M
Andreasen wrote:
google:"The Synthesis of Complex Audio Spectra by Means of"
.. will serve you Chownings original paper, so yes. I am sure.
/ja
BTW: You missed the the matching wordsize.
I humbly suggest:
s/Frequency/Frequenly
--
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 08:38 -0400, Dave Phillips
wrote:
Are you sure ?
s/Frequency/Frequent/ :-) J. Chowning, "The Synthesis of Complex Audio
Spectra by Means of
Frequency Copulation"
s/copulation/modulation
11:18 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:14 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
I am currently looking [in wikipedia] at the Casio
section near the end (regarding
phase distortion.) Wasn't this technique developed way back in the 60's
by french academics?
Let me refrase that to:
I am almost certain that this technique was developed at the "french
national institute of electronic music" (or some such?)
Question:
What is the actual name of that institute, and can anybody cunning in
french help me search in their wayback archives?
/ja
11:58 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] FM, Phase Modulation and The Wiki (and ancient astrnomy)
There is more .. :)
So Yamaha got a patent on phase/frequency modulation back in 1975 (or
-77), but (as far as I can see) there was prior art dating back to the
time when the sun was still circulating around the earth, forcing
astronomers to utilize wicket algorithms, not unlike the FM/PM patent,
in order to explain the strange behaviour of the near planets. Of
course, those ancient astronomers did not feed their findings through a
DAC to listen to what it sounded like. This is of course easily
explained by that not even basic electricity was well understood at that
time.
(I think that should be kept out of the Wiki, no?)
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 15:18 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:14 +0200, Jens M Andreasen
wrote:
--
I am currently looking [in wikipedia] at the
Casio section near the end (regarding
phase distortion.) Wasn't this technique developed way back in the 60's
by french academics?
Let me refrase that to:
I am almost certain that this technique was developed at the "french
national institute of electronic music" (or some such?)
Question:
What is the actual name of that institute, and can anybody cunning in
french help me search in their wayback archives?
/ja
12:16 p.m.
there is two major french institute :
www.grame.fr
www.ircam.fr
cheers
Le Mardi 28 Juin 2005 15:18, Jens M Andreasen a écrit :
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:14 +0200, Jens M Andreasen
wrote:
I am currently looking [in wikipedia] at the
Casio section near the end
(regarding phase distortion.) Wasn't this technique developed way back in
the 60's by french academics?
Let me refrase that to:
I am almost certain that this technique was developed at the "french
national institute of electronic music" (or some such?)
Question:
What is the actual name of that institute, and can anybody cunning in
french help me search in their wayback archives?
/ja 
6:13 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 15:18 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:14 +0200, Jens M Andreasen
wrote:
Its unlikely that this was invented at IRCAM in the 1960's:
http://www.ircam.fr/62.html?&L=1
I rest my case.
Phase distortion gets its own short section in Curtis Roads' "the
computer music tutorial" where it is again attributed to the Casio
corporation. Phase /modulation/ OTOH, gets just a very brief mention as
a variant of frequency modulation.
It seems the difference is that PD works on individual cycles of the
modulated waveform. The wiki author guesses that there may be an extra
synching oscillator but in fact...
"The scanning interval speeds up from 0 to [pi] and then slows down from
[pi] to 2 [pi]. The overall frequency is constant, according to the
pitch of the note, but the output waveform is no longer a sine".
...somebody just did the math(s).
Cheers
Simon
I am currently looking [in wikipedia] at the
Casio section near the end (regarding
phase distortion.) Wasn't this technique developed way back in the 60's
by french academics?
Let me refrase that to:
I am almost certain that this technique was developed at the "french
national institute of electronic music" (or some such?)
Question:
What is the actual name of that institute, and can anybody cunning in
french help me search in their wayback archives?
/ja
8:47 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 21:13 +0100, Simon Jenkins wrote:
--
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 15:18 +0200, Jens M Andreasen
wrote:
I agree that there is nothing to see there ...
Am I the only one to remember that Yamaha sued Casio, and Casio got home
free because phase modulation was already published by IRCAM?
(honestly; That's a weird feeling ...)
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:14 +0200, Jens M
Andreasen wrote:
Its unlikely that this was invented at IRCAM in the 1960's:
http://www.ircam.fr/62.html?&L=1
I rest my case. I am currently looking [in wikipedia] at the
Casio section near the end (regarding
phase distortion.) Wasn't this technique developed way back in the 60's
by french academics?
Let me refrase that to:
I am almost certain that this technique was developed at the "french
national institute of electronic music" (or some such?)
Question:
What is the actual name of that institute, and can anybody cunning in
french help me search in their wayback archives?
/ja
Phase distortion gets its own short section in Curtis Roads' "the
computer music tutorial" where it is again attributed to the Casio
corporation. Phase /modulation/ OTOH, gets just a very brief mention as
a variant of frequency modulation.
Yamahas smash-hit 'DX7' is definately based on phase modulation. So if
'Curtus Road' haven't figured that one out yet, I just wonder ... How
much more from that source is solely based on Corporate Newsletters?
It seems the difference is that PD works on individual
cycles of the
modulated waveform. The wiki author guesses that there may be an extra
synching oscillator but in fact...
This thread is about correcting some of the wrongs in the Wiki! (you
damned dummy!)
"The scanning interval speeds up from 0 to [pi] and then slows down from
[pi] to 2 [pi]. The overall frequency is constant, according to the
pitch of the note, but the output waveform is no longer a sine".
...somebody just did the math(s).
Did not! Did perhaps? Did :)
Where is this from? The illustrations I have seen in Wiki, is (wrongly)
contradicting that frequency should be a constant (although, I guess
that most people around here would testify that a constant phase offset
equals a constant frequency! And I will personally haunt them if they
don't)
Well ...
Never mind. The FM synthesis section looks somewhat less misleading now.
At least to these old eyes ;)
Cheers
Simon
Cheers to you too!
/ja
29 Jun
29 Jun
6:58 a.m.
On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 00:47 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
Its from this book:
http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=8218
The information can be second-sourced from this Sound-on-Sound tutorial:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/sep97/synthschool3.html
which was written by the co-author of The Casio CZ Book. There's a bit
more detail here too but unfortunately the diagrams are not online, only
the text is.
Simon
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 21:13 +0100, Simon Jenkins
wrote:
> It seems the difference is that PD works on
individual cycles of the
> modulated waveform. The wiki author guesses that there may be an extra
> synching oscillator but in fact...
This thread is about correcting some of the wrongs in
the Wiki! (you
damned dummy!)
erm... er... huh??? Thats what I was doing, wasn't it? Oh, hang on...
I'd clicked the link, so my comments actually apply to this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_distortion_synthesis
"The scanning interval speeds up from 0 to [pi] and then slows down from
[pi] to 2 [pi]. The overall frequency is constant, according to the
pitch of the note, but the output waveform is no longer a sine".
...somebody just did the math(s).
Did not! Did perhaps? Did :)
Where is this from?
8:59 a.m.
On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 09:58 +0100, Simon Jenkins wrote:
Oh, hang on...
I'd clicked the link, so my comments actually apply to this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_distortion_synthesis
Ah! So You are on that page .. That explains, sorry!
4 Jul
4 Jul
7:59 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 09:58 +0100, Simon Jenkins wrote:
>
> Where is this from?
The information can be second-sourced from this
Sound-on-Sound tutorial:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/sep97/synthschool3.html
which was written by the co-author of The Casio CZ Book. There's a bit
more detail here too but unfortunately the diagrams are not online, only
the text is.
I think we have fixed the digrams now (not online yet though.)
:)
Paul Wiffen may have been the co-author of that book, but his talk about
"speeding up/down" isn't exactly helpful. One gets the impression that
he is mistakenly into FM (which neither Casio nor Yamaha were.) It is
more like one of those carrousels, where you sit in a teacup, which
itself is rotating along ... Oh wait, have to go to the bathroom ...
Bye!
6 Jul
6 Jul
8:41 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:14 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
Hi!
I am trying to correct some factual errors in wikipedia regarding FM
synthesis (aka phase modulation.)
The page in qustion is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulation_synthesis
My current corrections are in italics. Further corrections appreciated
I am currently looking at the Casio section near the end (regarding
phase distortion.) Wasn't this technique developed way back in the 60's
by french academics?
I have seen quite a few web pages on this subject lately. I still do not
know who came up with the original idea. Well ...
The phase distortion synthesis page is now totally rewritten. You are
invited to shred it apart before I continue my quest for truth (within
reasonable limits) on related pages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_distortion_synthesis
mvh // Jens M Andreasen
(and yes, somebody ought to rewrite the whole page from scratch :))
Do? Did? Done!
--
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14 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Alfons Adriaensen -
Dave Phillips -
Jens M Andreasen -
julien2 -
Simon Jenkins