[Fons Adriaensen] thanks. i haven't given up on Steve yet. i admit he's stubborn, but that simply behooves a good brit. he's also a bright mind, so he'll realize sooner or later when he's supporting the wrong ideas. unfortunately, his support for the ladspa 1.1 default value hack back in the day has shown that 'sooner or later' sometimes means 'after the milk has been spilled'. maybe he's still shocked by the damage done to ladspa then, and his consequence is to keep ladspa from changing at all now. i do not know. (my apologies offered, Steve, for this rude, amateur public attempt at understanding your motives.) [good points about the other proposals elided] thank you for the favourable review. i would prefer the term 'expansive' instead of 'invasive' for the patch: it doesn't change a thing about ladspa as it is now. you can patch all or only some of your local copies of ladspa.h, issue a 'make' for the projects affected, be they host or plugin, without experiencing any problem at all. i've also tried to show that there is no mutual exclusion between the patch and RDF; in fact it remains to be shown that there even is friction between the two. on the contrary, they'll mix well. let's thank god this is not even half as grave as the US choice of president. :) to expand on the political aspect on this: since we'll never agree on what goes into it at what does not, by far the most democratic option is to let everyone have their *positive* will. this is what the patch does: it realizes all concepts wished for so far by all the plugin and host authors present on this list. people who have gone over the patch will agree that it does so without bloating ladspa.h, or if you prefer hard numbers: -rw-r--r-- 1 lad lad 27447 Mar 5 15:21 ladspa.h.orig -rw-r--r-- 2 lad lad 31478 Mar 6 01:09 ladspa.h the patch even removes the need for the default value hack in ladspa.h in the long run. let's also not forget the most invasive change the patch introduces is the TRIGGER and/or MOMENTARY hint bit; this is the only thing that *can* cause problems between a 2.0 plugin and a 1.1 host, and it is being agreed upon (in essence, not in implementation) by everybody so far. - once again, my apologies offered for a long-winded post. i would like to conclude it with another political statement: live and let live. be glad your wishes can be realized, and don't dispute the right of others to see theirs realized as well. vriendelijk, tim