5 May
2004
5 May
'04
12:04 a.m.
Hi people,
First of all, I wonder why no-one has thought to contact me to ask about
these points brought up about my work. Anyway, I'd be happy to explain a
couple of things like why I use Flash, Java and Mp3 even though they're
proprietary. I would be very happy to get away from proprietary technologies
completely but I also want people to be able to enjoy my work with minimum
effort. I am of course aware of SVG and OGG and do most of my work on Linux
(except Flash of course). However, although we all love non-proprietary
software and platforms, they are seldom pre-installed on 'regular' users
computers. If they drop in at a site that requires that they download and
install not one, but two or three plug-ins or programs, they're just going
to skip the site and go to the next one. I would. I could try to be really
modest and say, "I don't care what anyone else thinks or says, I'm just
doing this for myself!" But that just wouldn't be true. I'm doing this for
an audience and the bigger the better. I want people to experience and enjoy
my work and I know they won't if it involves a bunch of downloading and
installing. I have been moving towards Java instead of Flash specifically
because Flash doesn't run well on Linux and with Java I can do all my work
on Linux.
On the issue of GPL-ing my stuff. I'm just not that organized. If anyone
wants to see my files, just contact me and ask. I have nothing against
sharing them and do whenever anyone requests it.
best regards,
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolinn vid Armula
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://www.this.is/pallit/isjs
http://www.this.is/pallit/harmony
http://130.208.220.190/panse
5 May
5 May
6:35 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
Hi,
To be clear, I didn't want to start a flame war about proprietary vs.
free software. I completely understand your reasons for using Flash or
Java and I agree with you that today there is no free equivalent of
Flash or Java plug-in.
About the OGG alternative, it requires installing a plug-in which is
free software and very easy to install. May be a smooth transition path
would be to propose both MP3 and OGG with a note explaining people why
OGG is better and how they can easily install the OGG plugin.
fd
Le mer 05/05/2004 à 03:56, Pall Thayer a écrit :
Hi people,
First of all, I wonder why no-one has thought to contact me to ask about
these points brought up about my work. Anyway, I'd be happy to explain a
couple of things like why I use Flash, Java and Mp3 even though they're
proprietary. I would be very happy to get away from proprietary technologies
completely but I also want people to be able to enjoy my work with minimum
effort. I am of course aware of SVG and OGG and do most of my work on Linux
(except Flash of course). However, although we all love non-proprietary
software and platforms, they are seldom pre-installed on 'regular' users
computers. If they drop in at a site that requires that they download and
install not one, but two or three plug-ins or programs, they're just going
to skip the site and go to the next one. I would. I could try to be really
modest and say, "I don't care what anyone else thinks or says, I'm just
doing this for myself!" But that just wouldn't be true. I'm doing this for
an audience and the bigger the better. I want people to experience and enjoy
my work and I know they won't if it involves a bunch of downloading and
installing. I have been moving towards Java instead of Flash specifically
because Flash doesn't run well on Linux and with Java I can do all my work
on Linux.
On the issue of GPL-ing my stuff. I'm just not that organized. If anyone
wants to see my files, just contact me and ask. I have nothing against
sharing them and do whenever anyone requests it.
best regards,
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolinn vid Armula
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://www.this.is/pallit/isjs
http://www.this.is/pallit/harmony
http://130.208.220.190/panse
7:08 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
Don't get me wrong. I don't see this as a flame war. These are very
valid points that have been brought up and this sheds some light on the
state of free, non-proprietary media for the web today. I truly wish
there were viable non-proprietary ways of creating rich media that could
utilize the pre-installed plugins that come with most browsers, such as
flashplayer and javaVM. But sadly this is not the case so I feel forced
to take the proprietary route. As far as OGG is concerned, I do plan to
switch to it in about a year or so. The way things are going it looks
like it will be pretty wide-spread by that time.
Pall
Francois Dechelle wrote:
Hi,
To be clear, I didn't want to start a flame war about proprietary vs.
free software. I completely understand your reasons for using Flash or
Java and I agree with you that today there is no free equivalent of
Flash or Java plug-in.
About the OGG alternative, it requires installing a plug-in which is
free software and very easy to install. May be a smooth transition path
would be to propose both MP3 and OGG with a note explaining people why
OGG is better and how they can easily install the OGG plugin.
fd
Le mer 05/05/2004 à 03:56, Pall Thayer a écrit :
--
_________________________________
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://130.208.220.190/
http://130.208.220.190/nuharm/
http://130.208.220.190/panse/
_________________________________
Hi people,
First of all, I wonder why no-one has thought to contact me to ask about
these points brought up about my work. Anyway, I'd be happy to explain a
couple of things like why I use Flash, Java and Mp3 even though they're
proprietary. I would be very happy to get away from proprietary technologies
completely but I also want people to be able to enjoy my work with minimum
effort. I am of course aware of SVG and OGG and do most of my work on Linux
(except Flash of course). However, although we all love non-proprietary
software and platforms, they are seldom pre-installed on 'regular' users
computers. If they drop in at a site that requires that they download and
install not one, but two or three plug-ins or programs, they're just going
to skip the site and go to the next one. I would. I could try to be really
modest and say, "I don't care what anyone else thinks or says, I'm just
doing this for myself!" But that just wouldn't be true. I'm doing this for
an audience and the bigger the better. I want people to experience and enjoy
my work and I know they won't if it involves a bunch of downloading and
installing. I have been moving towards Java instead of Flash specifically
because Flash doesn't run well on Linux and with Java I can do all my work
on Linux.
On the issue of GPL-ing my stuff. I'm just not that organized. If anyone
wants to see my files, just contact me and ask. I have nothing against
sharing them and do whenever anyone requests it.
best regards,
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolinn vid Armula
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://www.this.is/pallit/isjs
http://www.this.is/pallit/harmony
http://130.208.220.190/panse
10:11 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
I agree completely.
From what we have discussed, here are the
possibilities, correct me if I
am wrong:
- Flash: no way, proprietary (is it possible to write a free plug-in? I
think it is not)
- Java: current plug-in is proprietary (Sun or IBM). I will investigate
to see if Java free implementation (CLASSPATH, gcj, Kaffe, Eclipse and
others) provide a free browser plug-in
- SVG: no free plug-in now, support for mozilla but only when compiled
inside Mozilla
- Blender: plug-in development is in standby
Looks like there is a need for free software here...
fd
Le mer 05/05/2004 à 11:00, Pall Thayer a écrit :
Don't get me wrong. I don't see this as a
flame war. These are very
valid points that have been brought up and this sheds some light on the
state of free, non-proprietary media for the web today. I truly wish
there were viable non-proprietary ways of creating rich media that could
utilize the pre-installed plugins that come with most browsers, such as
flashplayer and javaVM. But sadly this is not the case so I feel forced
to take the proprietary route. As far as OGG is concerned, I do plan to
switch to it in about a year or so. The way things are going it looks
like it will be pretty wide-spread by that time.
Pall
12:04 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
It would be nice if SVG became more widespread. I wonder why Mozilla doesn't
include it in the normal releases. Since the source is available, it couldn't
be too difficult to make a free plugin version, could it? There was talk
about IBM trying to talk Sun into open-sourcing Java but what with Suns new
marriage to Microsoft, I don't see that happening anytime in the near future.
Flash is totally proprietary and probably little or no possibility of making
anything free out of it. I'll have to take a look at blender. Didn't know it
did interactive stuff too. Thought it was just a 3d editor. Looks potentially
cool. Even though the browser plugin development isn't doing anything, it
looks to me like you could do multi-user networked stuff in it, distribute it
as a standalone and eliminate the need for the browser. Very interesting
indeed.
best regards,
Pall
On Wednesday 05 May 2004 12:04, Francois Dechelle wrote:
I agree completely.
From what we have discussed, here are the possibilities, correct me if I
am wrong:
- Flash: no way, proprietary (is it possible to write a free plug-in? I
think it is not)
- Java: current plug-in is proprietary (Sun or IBM). I will investigate
to see if Java free implementation (CLASSPATH, gcj, Kaffe, Eclipse and
others) provide a free browser plug-in
- SVG: no free plug-in now, support for mozilla but only when compiled
inside Mozilla
- Blender: plug-in development is in standby
Looks like there is a need for free software here...
fd
Le mer 05/05/2004 à 11:00, Pall Thayer a écrit :
> Don't get me wrong. I don't see this as a flame war. These are very
> valid points that have been brought up and this sheds some light on the
> state of free, non-proprietary media for the web today. I truly wish
> there were viable non-proprietary ways of creating rich media that could
> utilize the pre-installed plugins that come with most browsers, such as
> flashplayer and javaVM. But sadly this is not the case so I feel forced
> to take the proprietary route. As far as OGG is concerned, I do plan to
> switch to it in about a year or so. The way things are going it looks
> like it will be pretty wide-spread by that time.
>
> Pall
--
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://www.this.is/isjs
http://www.this.is/harmony
http://130.208.220.190/panse
12:12 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 01:57:10 +0000, Pall Thayer wrote:
It would be nice if SVG became more widespread. I
wonder why Mozilla doesn't
include it in the normal releases. Since the source is available, it couldn't
be too difficult to make a free plugin version, could it? There was talk
about IBM trying to talk Sun into open-sourcing Java but what with Suns new
marriage to Microsoft, I don't see that happening anytime in the near future.
Flash is totally proprietary and probably little or no possibility of making
anything free out of it.
Actaully I think the flash language and protocol are open, its just the
shockwave implementation thats closed. I could be wrong though.
- Steve
12:46 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
Just had a look at the Flash player and Shockwave EULA and it looks pretty
prohibitive. However, you may be correct about the flash language and
protocol. It is possible to create (limited) flash content with PHP and Perl,
for instance. But it looks like they don't want anyone else making players
for their stuff.
On Wednesday 05 May 2004 14:04, Steve Harris wrote:
On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 01:57:10 +0000, Pall Thayer
wrote:
--
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://www.this.is/isjs
http://www.this.is/harmony
http://130.208.220.190/panse
It would be nice if SVG became more widespread. I
wonder why Mozilla
doesn't include it in the normal releases. Since the source is available,
it couldn't be too difficult to make a free plugin version, could it?
There was talk about IBM trying to talk Sun into open-sourcing Java but
what with Suns new marriage to Microsoft, I don't see that happening
anytime in the near future. Flash is totally proprietary and probably
little or no possibility of making anything free out of it.
Actaully I think the flash language and protocol are open, its just the
shockwave implementation thats closed. I could be wrong though.
- Steve 
2:17 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
On Wednesday 05 May 2004 09:04 am, Steve Harris wrote:
Actaully I think the flash language and protocol are
open, its just the
shockwave implementation thats closed. I could be wrong though.
I remember downloading and reading the specs a few years ago, so they are
definitely open. At the time, I was planning to write a program to generate
flash content from a scripting language, and this was allowed by the license.
I don't remember if there were any restrictions on players or not, but I
don't recall any.
|)
|)enji
1:19 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
Le mer 05/05/2004 à 15:57, Pall Thayer a écrit :
It would be nice if SVG became more widespread. I
wonder why Mozilla doesn't
include it in the normal releases. Since the source is available, it couldn't
be too difficult to make a free plugin version, could it?
Yes, probably, but there are certainly some hidden difficulties,
otherwise I don't understand why it is done inside Mozilla and not as a
plugin.
There was talk
about IBM trying to talk Sun into open-sourcing Java but what with Suns new
marriage to Microsoft, I don't see that happening anytime in the near future.
And Sun said 'No!' to IBM letter asking for freeing Java. The only
possibility is with the Java free implementations, but there is one big
problem: the graphic toolkit. There are free implementations of java
virtual machine, there are free implementations of java runtime, except
for the Swing toolkit. The free alternative is SWT from the Eclipse
project, but the API is different. So if you have a graphical user
interface that runs inside the browser using the java plug-in and the
Swing toolkit, no way.
[...]
fd
6 May
6 May
8:44 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] (web-based) interactive sound art?
On Wednesday 05 May 2004 17.12, Francois Dechelle wrote:
Le mer 05/05/2004 à 15:57, Pall Thayer a écrit :
Might have to do with script tags (ECMAScript) and stuff... Looked at
the spec the other day, and I'd say it looks like pretty heavy stuff,
if you want to implement full support.
//David Olofson - Programmer, Composer, Open Source Advocate
.- Audiality -----------------------------------------------.
| Free/Open Source audio engine for games and multimedia. |
| MIDI, modular synthesis, real time effects, scripting,... |
`-----------------------------------> http://audiality.org -'
--- http://olofson.net --- http://www.reologica.se ---
It would be nice if SVG became more widespread. I
wonder why
Mozilla doesn't include it in the normal releases. Since the
source is available, it couldn't be too difficult to make a free
plugin version, could it?
Yes, probably, but there are certainly some hidden difficulties,
otherwise I don't understand why it is done inside Mozilla and not
as a plugin.
7599
days inactive
7601
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
9 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Benjamin Flaming -
David Olofson -
Francois Dechelle -
Pall Thayer -
Steve Harris