21 May
2011
21 May
'11
2:37 p.m.
Pardon that I ask this on the developers list, but it seems to be the
best place regarding to the information about hardware, that is or isn't
well supported for or by Linux.
I'm flirting with the idea of buying a RME PCI card or firewire device
or if recommended a card from another vendor. The device should have
around 4 analog IOs, for MIDI I could keep one of my Envy24 cards, as
long as a new device only needs one PCI slot. I guess PCI is less
problematic than firewire?
I'll order next week.
It's important that the analog IOs and converters etc. keep the sound
without audible loss, similar to consumer equipment, that is not the
most worse. Professional sound quality isn't needed, but my TerraTec EWX
24/96 or similar Envy24 cards and all those onboard devices I ever
heard, don't reach good consumer quality, they produce marked loss for
the sound quality.
I could spend 800,- EUR or less ;).
Any recommendations for sound cards?
I already got some recommendations and until now this one seems to be
the most confidence inspiring device ... just a feeling ;):
http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_digi_9632_hdsp_pcikarte.htm
OTOH, I'm doubtful, regarding to the costs. I thought that new devices
are more expensive.
Somebody else recommended this one:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/focusrite_saffire_pro_40.htm
I can't ask friend, because they won't care about compatibility to
Linux :(, I guess that e.g. Motu isn't (well) supported.
Before I order a sound device, I'll ask if I could test it, when
ordering at Thomann or a similar dealer. The problem is that I have to
order, because AFAIK there are no good music stores near to my hometown
Oberhausen/Rheinland, that are easily reachable by public transit,
dunno, perhaps Kurt Spiecker + Dirk Pulch are still ok.
Best,
Ralf
21 May
21 May
4:10 p.m.
If you cannot keep your Envy24 card for MIDI I/O, you might want to check out
the ESI MIDIMATE II. It's a minimal USB MIDI interface (it's really
just a cable,
no box) which works very well in my setup. This could open up a few more
alternatives for you, in case you decide on a device that would
require you to remove
the Envy24 card.
On 21 May 2011 20:37, Ralf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
Pardon that I ask this on the developers list, but it
seems to be the
best place regarding to the information about hardware, that is or isn't
well supported for or by Linux.
I'm flirting with the idea of buying a RME PCI card or firewire device
or if recommended a card from another vendor. The device should have
around 4 analog IOs, for MIDI I could keep one of my Envy24 cards, as
long as a new device only needs one PCI slot. I guess PCI is less
problematic than firewire?
I'll order next week.
It's important that the analog IOs and converters etc. keep the sound
without audible loss, similar to consumer equipment, that is not the
most worse. Professional sound quality isn't needed, but my TerraTec EWX
24/96 or similar Envy24 cards and all those onboard devices I ever
heard, don't reach good consumer quality, they produce marked loss for
the sound quality.
I could spend 800,- EUR or less ;).
Any recommendations for sound cards?
I already got some recommendations and until now this one seems to be
the most confidence inspiring device ... just a feeling ;):
http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_digi_9632_hdsp_pcikarte.htm
OTOH, I'm doubtful, regarding to the costs. I thought that new devices
are more expensive.
Somebody else recommended this one:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/focusrite_saffire_pro_40.htm
I can't ask friend, because they won't care about compatibility to
Linux :(, I guess that e.g. Motu isn't (well) supported.
Before I order a sound device, I'll ask if I could test it, when
ordering at Thomann or a similar dealer. The problem is that I have to
order, because AFAIK there are no good music stores near to my hometown
Oberhausen/Rheinland, that are easily reachable by public transit,
dunno, perhaps Kurt Spiecker + Dirk Pulch are still ok.
Best,
Ralf
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
4:56 p.m.
On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 22:10 +0800, Ricardo Wurmus wrote:
If you cannot keep your Envy24 card for MIDI I/O, you
might want to check out
the ESI MIDIMATE II. It's a minimal USB MIDI interface (it's really
just a cable,
no box) which works very well in my setup. This could open up a few more
alternatives for you, in case you decide on a device that would
require you to remove
the Envy24 card.
I've got 2 PCI slots and two Envy24 PCI cards. I guess that most other
PCI audio cards ship with a MIDI interface too, but I'm not sure if the
MIDI jitter will fit to my needs. Fortunately Jack2 from svn (jackd
--sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa ...) + my Envy24 cards do fit to my needs
regarding to MIDI jitter, but audio doesn't ;). I do have a Swissonic
USB device, but I avoid to use any USB device when making music, perhaps
I'm wooed by fad ;), I even disable USB card reader by my
session-handling-scripts (sudo killall -9 -w pcscd ;). No USB mouse,
keyboard or printer etc. here. To be honset, I didn't tested zthe USB
MIDI with current Jack2.
Anyway, thank you very much,
Ralf
6:28 p.m.
On Sat, 21 May 2011 16:56:04 +0200
Ralf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 22:10 +0800, Ricardo Wurmus
wrote:
I can see how the packet-based nature of USB could create jitter when
using a USB<->MIDI device. But how could some unrelated device like a
card reader create MIDI jitter?
On the topic of sound cards: can anyone recommend a cheap external USB
sound card with many separate outputs (8 would be nice) and good Linux
driver support? Professional-level sound quality isn't paramount, just
lots of outputs. :)
If you cannot keep your Envy24 card for MIDI I/O,
you might want to check out
the ESI MIDIMATE II. It's a minimal USB MIDI interface (it's really
just a cable,
no box) which works very well in my setup. This could open up a few more
alternatives for you, in case you decide on a device that would
require you to remove
the Envy24 card.
I've got 2 PCI slots and two Envy24 PCI cards. I guess that most other
PCI audio cards ship with a MIDI interface too, but I'm not sure if the
MIDI jitter will fit to my needs. Fortunately Jack2 from svn (jackd
--sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa ...) + my Envy24 cards do fit to my needs
regarding to MIDI jitter, but audio doesn't ;). I do have a Swissonic
USB device, but I avoid to use any USB device when making music, perhaps
I'm wooed by fad ;), I even disable USB card reader by my
session-handling-scripts (sudo killall -9 -w pcscd ;). No USB mouse,
keyboard or printer etc. here. To be honset, I didn't tested zthe USB
MIDI with current Jack2.
6:42 p.m.
On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 18:28 +0200, Johannes Kroll wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2011 16:56:04 +0200
Ralf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
Perhaps I'm wooed by fad ;), anyway, I read about using PS2 mouse and
keyboard should be better than using USB mouse and keyboard, perhaps to
shared IRQ issues or something similar. USB might be an issue?
On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 22:10 +0800, Ricardo Wurmus
wrote:
I can see how the packet-based nature of USB could create jitter when
using a USB<->MIDI device. But how could some unrelated device like a
card reader create MIDI jitter? If you cannot keep your Envy24 card for MIDI I/O,
you might want to check out
the ESI MIDIMATE II. It's a minimal USB MIDI interface (it's really
just a cable,
no box) which works very well in my setup. This could open up a few more
alternatives for you, in case you decide on a device that would
require you to remove
the Envy24 card.
I've got 2 PCI slots and two Envy24 PCI cards. I guess that most other
PCI audio cards ship with a MIDI interface too, but I'm not sure if the
MIDI jitter will fit to my needs. Fortunately Jack2 from svn (jackd
--sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa ...) + my Envy24 cards do fit to my needs
regarding to MIDI jitter, but audio doesn't ;). I do have a Swissonic
USB device, but I avoid to use any USB device when making music, perhaps
I'm wooed by fad ;), I even disable USB card reader by my
session-handling-scripts (sudo killall -9 -w pcscd ;). No USB mouse,
keyboard or printer etc. here. To be honset, I didn't tested zthe USB
MIDI with current Jack2. On the topic of sound cards: can anyone recommend a
cheap external USB
sound card with many separate outputs (8 would be nice) and good Linux
driver support? Professional-level sound quality isn't paramount, just
lots of outputs. :)
Did you think of making several equal Envy24 cards (30,-€ at Ebay) one
virtual card? I didn't do it with my cards, but I guess this should
work, resp. I guess you're searching for USB, because you're using a
laptop? I guess there're Envy24 USB devices too and they are very cheap,
but full duplex etc..
Ralf
23 May
23 May
9:59 a.m.
On 05/21/2011 06:28 PM, Johannes Kroll wrote:
On the topic of sound cards: can anyone recommend a
cheap external USB
sound card with many separate outputs (8 would be nice) and good Linux
driver support? Professional-level sound quality isn't paramount, just
lots of outputs. :)
Hello Johannes,
Not much to recommend, basically only one candidate at the moment afaik:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra8R.html
Best,
Jeremy
10:33 a.m.
On 05/23/2011 09:59 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Not much to recommend, basically only one candidate at
the moment afaik:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra8R.html
This looks interesting, and I'm tempted to buy one, too, but how well is
it supported by recent ALSA versions? Google turns up very mixed results.
Albert
--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email: Dr.Graef(a)t-online.de, ag(a)muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de
WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag
11:43 a.m.
On 05/23/2011 10:33 AM, Albert Graef wrote:
On 05/23/2011 09:59 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Hello Albert,
No idea :( This M-Audio card always needed a patch. More info here:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1581&start=15&…
This post contains the specific patch:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1581&start=15&…
Best,
Jeremy
Not much to recommend, basically only one
candidate at the moment afaik:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra8R.html
This looks interesting, and I'm tempted to buy one, too, but how well is
it supported by recent ALSA versions? Google turns up very mixed results.
Albert
3:33 p.m.
On 05/23/2011 11:43 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
No idea :( This M-Audio card always needed a patch.
More info here:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1581&start=15&…
This post contains the specific patch:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1581&start=15&…
Jeremy, thanks for the info. I seem to recall that you also had a
similar device in your workshop at LAC. What device was that?
Albert
--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email: Dr.Graef(a)t-online.de, ag(a)muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de
WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag
24 May
24 May
9:34 a.m.
On 05/23/2011 03:33 PM, Albert Graef wrote:
On 05/23/2011 11:43 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Hello Albert,
That was a Focusrite Saffire Pro 10 IO FireWire device.
Best,
Jeremy
No idea :( This M-Audio card always needed a
patch. More info here:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1581&start=15&…
This post contains the specific patch:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1581&start=15&…
Jeremy, thanks for the info. I seem to recall that you also had a
similar device in your workshop at LAC. What device was that?
Albert
10:59 a.m.
On 05/24/2011 09:34 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
That was a Focusrite Saffire Pro 10 IO FireWire
device.
That one looks nice. Unfortunately, it seems that it's discontinued, and
models 24 and 40 are still marked as experimental (need ffado from svn)
on the ffado website.
Albert
--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email: Dr.Graef(a)t-online.de, ag(a)muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de
WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag
11:18 a.m.
New subject: What sound cards are recommender by developers? I'll order next week!!!
On Tuesday 24 May 2011 10:59:37 Albert Graef wrote:
On 05/24/2011 09:34 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Yes, its experimental. Yes, people are successfully using them in
productions...
The fact that its marked as "experimental" is because no stable release
supports the dice-devices. And we didn't yet have the time to create a 2.1
release...
Have fun,
Arnold
That was a Focusrite Saffire Pro 10 IO FireWire
device.
That one looks nice. Unfortunately, it seems that it's discontinued, and
models 24 and 40 are still marked as experimental (need ffado from svn)
on the ffado website.
12:07 p.m.
New subject: What sound cards are recommender by developers? I'll order next week!!!
On 05/24/2011 11:17 AM, Arnold Krille wrote:
On Tuesday 24 May 2011 10:59:37 Albert Graef wrote:
I'm using the 40 at home, works very well. At work we use a 24, also
with Linux and that works great too. I recently did a presentation for
Horus (http://horus.hku.nl/) for which I used the 24, no problems
whatsoever, except for the minor bug that JACK will crash the first time
you run it (known issue).
DICE based devices won't work with a number of FireWire controllers
though, like the onboard JMicron chipset of my notebook. So I bought a
cheap PCIe Express Card with a Via chipset and that works quite well.
You can check which controllers are compatible here:
https://dev.tctechnologies.tc/tcat/tags/release/public/latest/docs/drv/DICE…
Best,
Jeremy
On 05/24/2011 09:34 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Yes, its experimental. Yes, people are successfully using them in
productions...
The fact that its marked as "experimental" is because no stable release
supports the dice-devices. And we didn't yet have the time to create a 2.1
release...
Have fun,
Arnold
That was a Focusrite Saffire Pro 10 IO FireWire
device.
That one looks nice. Unfortunately, it seems that it's discontinued, and
models 24 and 40 are still marked as experimental (need ffado from svn)
on the ffado website.
23 May
23 May
12:55 p.m.
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 10:33 +0200, Albert Graef wrote:
On 05/23/2011 09:59 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Thank you Jeremy :)
it cost 369,- EUR here in Germany, customers made good reports, but they
mentioned that 1. the sound quality isn't as good as of e.g. a Motu and
2. that it should be (perhaps on other OS) impossible to use more than
one of that devices.
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 01:35 -0700, James Warden wrote:
Not much to recommend, basically only one
candidate at the moment afaik:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra8R.html
This looks interesting, and I'm tempted to buy one, too, but how well is
it supported by recent ALSA versions? Google turns up very mixed results.
Albert
... mmmm a USB2 audio device is not exactly linux
friendly.
I wonder if USB is bad regarding to audio jitter. For MIDI it is bad regarding to jitter.
- Ralf
10:35 a.m.
New subject: What sound cards are recommender by developers? I'll order next week!!!
--- On Mon, 5/23/11, Jeremy Jongepier <jeremy(a)autostatic.com> wrote:
From: Jeremy Jongepier <jeremy(a)autostatic.com>
Subject: Re: [LAD] What sound cards are recommender by developers? I'll order next
week!!!
To: linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Date: Monday, May 23, 2011, 3:59 AM
On 05/21/2011 06:28 PM, Johannes
Kroll wrote:
... mmmm a USB2 audio device is not exactly linux friendly.
Below is a copy/paste of the requirement page. If I were interested in a USB-2 audio
device, I would bring a linux laptop to a retailer's store and test the beast on the
spot before purchasing it.
Cheers!
J.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra8R.html
Windows XP (32-bit) with SP2**
DirectX 9.0c (included in XP)
USB 2.0 port
Windows Vista (32-bit versions) / Windows Vista SP2 (32Bit , 64 Bit) / Win7 (32Bit , 64
Bit)
1.6 GHz processor (CPU may be higher for laptops)
512 MB RAM*
* Windows Vista Home Premium, Business and Ultimate require 1 GB RAM.
** Home and Professional Edition only. Windows Media Center Edition is not supported.
*** Please check the minimum system requirements of your DAW software as they may be
higher.
Minimum System Requirements (Mac)
Mac OS X 10.3.9
USB 2.0 port
512 MB RAM
1 GHz CPU
On the topic of sound cards: can anyone recommend
a
cheap external USB
sound card with many separate outputs (8 would be
nice) and good Linux
driver support? Professional-level sound quality
isn't
paramount, just
lots of outputs. :)
Hello Johannes,
Not much to recommend, basically only one candidate at the
moment afaik:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra8R.html
Best,
Jeremy _______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
21 May
21 May
10:34 p.m.
New subject: What sound cards are recommender by developers? I'll order next week!!!
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 02:37:25PM +0200, Ralf wrote:
It's important that the analog IOs and converters
etc. keep the sound
without audible loss, similar to consumer equipment, that is not the
most worse. Professional sound quality isn't needed, but my TerraTec EWX
24/96 or similar Envy24 cards and all those onboard devices I ever
heard, don't reach good consumer quality, they produce marked loss for
the sound quality.
Please, please, at least try to be a bit informed before writing.
Audio quality is determined by the AD and DA converters and their
clocks, not by any digital interface circuits such as the Envy24.
My Envy24 based Terratec (from the time that firm still produced
interesting stuff) is actually among the best I ever measured.
And it sounds *much* better than most 'consumer' cards I've ever
seen.
Ciao,
--
FA
11:33 p.m.
I remember looking into this a couple of years ago. The PCI card I was
looking at was the M-Audio Delta 1010LT. It has 8x8 analog 24bit/96Khz IO
1x1 MIDI, and a digital in/out I believe. I heard the card worked perfectly
in Linux (at least on the ALSA chart). It's a beast, and it looks like you
can pick one up boxed (but used) for about $150 CDN.
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org>wrote;wrote:
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 02:37:25PM +0200, Ralf wrote:
It's important that the analog IOs and
converters etc. keep the sound
without audible loss, similar to consumer equipment, that is not the
most worse. Professional sound quality isn't needed, but my TerraTec EWX
24/96 or similar Envy24 cards and all those onboard devices I ever
heard, don't reach good consumer quality, they produce marked loss for
the sound quality.
Please, please, at least try to be a bit informed before writing.
Audio quality is determined by the AD and DA converters and their
clocks, not by any digital interface circuits such as the Envy24.
My Envy24 based Terratec (from the time that firm still produced
interesting stuff) is actually among the best I ever measured.
And it sounds *much* better than most 'consumer' cards I've ever
seen.
Ciao,
--
FA
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
22 May
22 May
2:11 a.m.
On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 17:33 -0400, Brendan Asselstine wrote:
I remember looking into this a couple of years ago.
The PCI card I
was looking at was the M-Audio Delta 1010LT. It has 8x8 analog
24bit/96Khz IO 1x1 MIDI, and a digital in/out I believe. I heard the
card worked perfectly in Linux (at least on the ALSA chart). It's a
beast, and it looks like you can pick one up boxed (but used) for
about $150 CDN.
Thank you. I'm sceptic regarding to some reports in German.
This card seems to have a very good price-performance ratio, the
customer are satisfied, but they also mention that the sound quality has
limits. And it's an Envy24 card. It's correct, this chip doesn't cause
sound issues, but at least with Suse and Ubuntu they don't work OOTB any
more, since PulseAudio cause trouble. For Maverick there were more
issues, then for Suse 11.2 and Lucid, so even if the converters and
op-amps are ok, Envy24 cards cause issues, resp. PulseAudio does.
Ralf
3:18 a.m.
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Ralf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
op-amps are ok, Envy24 cards cause issues, resp.
PulseAudio does.
Pulse's issues (as such) are with multichannel cards, not with Envy24 cards.
It has the same issue with any "high" channel count device.
10:20 a.m.
On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 21:18 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Ralf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
It started with the need to edit /usr/share/alsa/cards/...
#
# Configuration for the ICE1712 (Envy24) chip
#
[snip]
slave.format S32_LE
slave.channels 10
[snip]
For Ubuntu Maverick this didn't solve the issue any more, I
pseudo-disabled PA this way http://www.jeffsplace.net/node/12 to get the
card working.
If you read several audio user lists you'll see that's not only me,
having this issue ;), but every Envy24 card user, while RME card users
write similar to this:
"I have an RME 9652 that has worked out of the box for the past 5 years
on every distro I have run (to date with this card I have used Fedora,
Debian, 64Studio, and various Ubuntu releases.).
It was expensive but has been worth every single penny."
"Any Rme card is good, although they're a bit expensive. Didn't have to
do a thing to get my hdsp 9632 working."
I guess I'll search for RME cards in a price range between 300,- to
800,- EUR.
Regarding to sound quality issues RME cards also get better gradings
than TerraTec, M-Audio and other cards that cost between 80,- and 400,-
EUR.
I didn't ask for latency and didn't read a report about RME card's
latencies, but I don't think those cards do have higher latencies than
cheaper cards ;).
Best,
Ralf
op-amps are ok, Envy24 cards cause issues, resp.
PulseAudio does.
Pulse's issues (as such) are with multichannel cards, not with Envy24 cards.
It has the same issue with any "high" channel count device.
2:32 p.m.
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 4:20 AM, Ralf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
If you read several audio user lists you'll see
that's not only me,
having this issue ;), but every Envy24 card user, while RME card users
write similar to this:
They didn't use PulseAudio with their RME cards.
Regarding to sound quality issues RME cards also get
better gradings
than TerraTec, M-Audio and other cards that cost between 80,- and 400,-
EUR.
If you have an all-digital card word-clocked synced to your converters
(or an external clock source) there will be ZERO difference in the
audio quality delivered by switching to another similar card. To claim
anything else is more or less equivalent to the people who claim that
using certain hard drives improves the playback quality of their
computer-stored music.
obviously, there are some "ifs" in that statement that leave some room
for variation. the headphone out of my RME digiface, for example, is
definitely better quality than the Intel HDA on my motherboard, but
that's because its an analog signal path. the RME's also have a better
internal sample clock than the M-Audio's, so if you use that clock,
there is some potential for small improvements in quality. but the
basic statement remains true, and is very important.
--p
7:31 p.m.
On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 14:18 +0100, Machel Sylvain wrote:
Ok. But you agree that it might be, that the analog IOs of a RME and
perhaps of a more expensive M-Audio card are better than those of <=
100,- EUR sound card? I heard at least a Motu firewire on a Mac that was
much better than my Terratec cards.
There are a lot of statements pro and contra several sound cards
regarding to the sound quality, but I didn't read any statement about a
bad sound for RME cards. I never heard a RME card, but I tend to believe
that they are without sound quality issues, while other cards might or
might not cause such issues.
Ralf
Hello Ralf,
Have you already envisaged to use Digigram boards like the vx222 one
with alsa driver.
Regards,
Sylvain
No thank you, I'll take a look at this.
On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 08:32 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 4:20 AM, Ralf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
That might be true, at least one of them was a long time 64 Studio user,
as I was and 64 Studio never used PA.
If you read several audio user lists you'll
see that's not only me,
having this issue ;), but every Envy24 card user, while RME card users
write similar to this:
They didn't use PulseAudio with their RME cards. Regarding to
sound quality issues RME cards also get better gradings
than TerraTec, M-Audio and other cards that cost between 80,- and 400,-
EUR.
If you have an all-digital card word-clocked synced to your converters
(or an external clock source) there will be ZERO difference in the
audio quality delivered by switching to another similar card. To claim
anything else is more or less equivalent to the people who claim that
using certain hard drives improves the playback quality of their
computer-stored music.
obviously, there are some "ifs" in that statement that leave some room
for variation. the headphone out of my RME digiface, for example, is
definitely better quality than the Intel HDA on my motherboard, but
that's because its an analog signal path. the RME's also have a better
internal sample clock than the M-Audio's, so if you use that clock,
there is some potential for small improvements in quality. but the
basic statement remains true, and is very important.
--p
1:52 a.m.
On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 20:34 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 02:37:25PM +0200, Ralf wrote:
Pardon, you're right, but very often less expensive and less good sound
cards do use an Envy24 chip. The converters and op-amps could cause bad
sound.
It's important that the analog IOs and
converters etc. keep the sound
without audible loss, similar to consumer equipment, that is not the
most worse. Professional sound quality isn't needed, but my TerraTec EWX
24/96 or similar Envy24 cards and all those onboard devices I ever
heard, don't reach good consumer quality, they produce marked loss for
the sound quality.
Please, please, at least try to be a bit informed before writing.
Audio quality is determined by the AD and DA converters and their
clocks, not by any digital interface circuits such as the Envy24.
My Envy24 based Terratec (from the time that firm still produced
interesting stuff) is actually among the best I ever measured.
And it sounds *much* better than most 'consumer' cards I've ever
seen.
Ciao,
1:57 a.m.
On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 01:52 +0200, Ralf wrote:
Pardon, you're right, but very often less
expensive and less good sound
cards do use an Envy24 chip. The converters and op-amps could cause bad
sound.
In practical terms, they make absolutely no difference at all. Some
on-board chips are quite bad for ground-loop noise getting in from other
parts of the board. Pretty much anything on a PCI card will be fine.
If your recordings sound shite, it's because your technique is shite.
Or possibly your playing. All the sound cards sound the same.
Gordon MM0YEQ
23 May
23 May
10:14 p.m.
New subject: What sound cards are recommender by developers? I'll order next week!!!
On 5/21/2011 2:34 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
Please, please, at least try to be a bit informed
before writing.
Audio quality is determined by the AD and DA converters and their
clocks, not by any digital interface circuits such as the Envy24.
It seems that
Ralf went to some people and asked before posting here and
thus made the attempt to be informed before writing here. If one is a
newbie in this field (i.e not a developer or engineer) i think that
asking basic questions is to be expected. Quite a few of us started out
as 'audiophiles' and have all sorts of bad, misleading marketing
information about how soundcards work. Ralf's posts strike me that way.
I was in such a state until my re-education as well.
Thanks.
Bearcat
4961
days inactive
4964
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
24 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Albert Graef -
Arnold Krille -
Bearcat M. Sandor -
Brendan Asselstine -
Fons Adriaensen -
Gordon JC Pearce -
James Warden -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Johannes Kroll -
Paul Davis -
Ralf -
Ralf Mardorf
-
Ricardo Wurmus