8 Jul
2016
8 Jul
'16
2:28 p.m.
It has been like this for as long as I can remember: When I insert a
ZASFX plugin instance in a Qtractor session, gone is the joy I have
editing my session files, because all the ZADSFX entries are messed up:
the "<" character is represented by its ASCII entity: "<"
and it make
even my Emacs choke: scrambles the formatting, the syntax highlight, the
indentation, everything. The right chevron is OK.
Looks like this:
(...)
<plugins>
<plugin type="LV2">
<filename>http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net</filename>
<index>0</index>
<label>ZynAddSubFX</label>
<preset></preset>
<direct-access-param>-1</direct-access-param>
<activated>1</activated>
<configs>
<config key="urn:distrho:state">
<?xml version="1.0f" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE ZynAddSubFX-data>
<ZynAddSubFX-data version-major="2" version-minor="5"
version-revision="4" ZynAddSubFX-author="Nasca Octavian Paul">
<INFORMATION />
<BASE_PARAMETERS>
(...)
I hate to be the "Sales dept guy in the tech open-space" but surely
/this doesn't sound like something that would be that hard to fix/ (tm) ;p
Oh, and it doesn't cause any other problem that I can think of, BTW. But
still.
Phil
PS - ZynAddSubFx is, despite everything, the coolest synth I worked
with, by far. I want to warmly thank everybody that made using it in
Qtractor possible, guys, you are heroes of mine.
PPS -Is there any plans to have (at least some of) its controls
automatable? I asked this in a whisper because I want it so bad it's
ridiculous :p
--
Philip "xaccrocheur" Yassin
http://manyrecords.com
http://bitbucket.org/xaccrocheur / https://github.com/xaccrocheur
8 Jul
8 Jul
3:57 p.m.
On 07-08, Philip Yassin wrote:
It has been like this for as long as I can remember:
When I insert a ZASFX
plugin instance in a Qtractor session, gone is the joy I have editing my
session files, because all the ZADSFX entries are messed up: the "<"
character is represented by its ASCII entity: "<" and it make even my
Emacs choke: scrambles the formatting, the syntax highlight, the
indentation, everything. The right chevron is OK.
Well, Zyn isn't doing that,
so it's somewhere between Qtractor and Qt
that this weird escaping is happening.
PPS -Is there any plans to have (at least some of) its
controls automatable?
I asked this in a whisper because I want it so bad it's ridiculous :p
The
majority of Zyn parameters can be bound via MIDI learn and there's a
good number of parameters which update running notes (added within the past
version or two) on changes to either the GUI controls or bound MIDI CCs.
If there's a particular parameter which doesn't automate well with the
current zyn-git, I'd encourage you to make a note of it on the feature
tracker.
The only parameters which have major technical limitations with
automation are parameters within the oscillator view, the resonance
graph, and anything which requires the apply button in Pad Synth.
--Mark
4:32 p.m.
On 08/07/2016 13:57, Mark D. McCurry wrote:
Woah,
wait. What? But... Am I missing something, I can't see any of said
params in the "properties" window, maybe it's another Qtractor
idiosyncratic limitations (I learned to love them) :p
On 07-08, Philip Yassin wrote:
I am suspecting something like that too.
It has been like this for as long as I can
remember: When I insert a ZASFX
plugin instance in a Qtractor session, gone is the joy I have editing my
session files, because all the ZADSFX entries are messed up: the "<"
character is represented by its ASCII entity: "<" and it make even my
Emacs choke: scrambles the formatting, the syntax highlight, the
indentation, everything. The right chevron is OK.
Well, Zyn isn't doing that,
so it's somewhere between Qtractor and Qt
that this weird escaping is happening. PPS -Is there
any plans to have (at least some of) its controls automatable?
I asked this in a whisper because I want it so bad it's ridiculous :p
The
majority of Zyn parameters can be bound via MIDI learn and there's a
good number of parameters which update running notes (added within the past
version or two) on changes to either the GUI controls or bound MIDI CCs. If there's a particular parameter which
doesn't automate well with the
current zyn-git, I'd encourage you to make a note of it on the feature
tracker.
Well, I'm using the one in the KXStudio repos, I guess it's up to
date... Wait
⚡ lv2ls|grep zyn
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zynaddsubfx
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zynalienwah
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zynchorus
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zyndistortion
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zyndynamicfilter
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zynecho
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zynphaser
http://kxstudio.sf.net/carla/plugins/zynreverb
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/fx#AlienWah
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/fx#Chorus
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/fx#Distortion
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/fx#DynamicFilter
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/fx#Echo
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/fx#Phaser
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/fx#Reverb
⚡ lv2info http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net
Name: ZynAddSubFX
Class: Instrument
Author: ZynAddSubFX Team
Author Homepage: http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net
Has latency: no
Bundle: file:///usr/lib/lv2/ZynAddSubFX.lv2/
Binary: file:///usr/lib/lv2/ZynAddSubFX.lv2/ZynAddSubFX.so
UIs:
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net#UI
Class: http://lv2plug.in/ns/extensions/ui#X11UI
Binary:
file:///usr/lib/lv2/ZynAddSubFX.lv2/ZynAddSubFX_ui.so
Bundle: file:///usr/lib/lv2/ZynAddSubFX.lv2/
Data URIs: file:///usr/lib/lv2/ZynAddSubFX.lv2/ZynAddSubFX.ttl
file:///usr/lib/lv2/ZynAddSubFX.lv2/manifest.ttl
Required Features: http://lv2plug.in/ns/ext/worker#schedule
http://lv2plug.in/ns/ext/urid#map
http://lv2plug.in/ns/ext/options#options
Optional Features: http://lv2plug.in/ns/lv2core#hardRTCapable
http://lv2plug.in/ns/ext/buf-size#boundedBlockLength
Extension Data: http://kxstudio.sf.net/ns/lv2ext/programs#Interface
http://lv2plug.in/ns/ext/worker#interface
http://lv2plug.in/ns/ext/options#interface
http://lv2plug.in/ns/ext/state#interface
Hum, can't find any version number in the GUI either :/
Oh, and mind you, when I jalv.gtk3 http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net I
can't see any other control than "OSC Port (17475,000000)" so that's
what made me think it's not just Qtractor... All those years... So am I
using "the wrong one"? I guess I am. Is there a way to do some sort of
version, at least feature checking?
Thanks for your answer that pumped me full of hope anyway :)
--Phil
The only parameters which have major technical
limitations with
automation are parameters within the oscillator view, the resonance
graph, and anything which requires the apply button in Pad Synth.
--Mark
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
--
Philip "xaccrocheur" Yassin
http://manyrecords.com
http://bitbucket.org/xaccrocheur / https://github.com/xaccrocheur
4:42 p.m.
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mark D. McCurry <mark.d.mccurry(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
The majority of Zyn parameters can be bound via MIDI learn and there's a
good number of parameters which update running notes (added within the past
version or two) on changes to either the GUI controls or bound MIDI CCs.
This is not possible when usng a custom plugin GUI inside a host.
9 Jul
9 Jul
9:04 a.m.
On 08/07/2016 14:42, Paul Davis wrote:
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mark D. McCurry
<mark.d.mccurry(a)gmail.com <mailto:mark.d.mccurry@gmail.com>> wrote:
The majority of Zyn parameters can be bound via MIDI learn and
there's a
good number of parameters which update running notes (added within
the past
version or two) on changes to either the GUI controls or bound
MIDI CCs.
This is not possible when usng a custom plugin GUI inside a host.
OK, so when is it
possible? Only when using it standalone & headless, or
are there any other combo?
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
--
Philip "xaccrocheur" Yassin
http://manyrecords.com
http://bitbucket.org/xaccrocheur / https://github.com/xaccrocheur
3:46 p.m.
On 07-09, Philip Yassin wrote:
On 08/07/2016 14:42, Paul Davis wrote:
I'm a bit confused by Paul's comment myself as this learning process
does work when Zyn is run within a host (I just tested in ardour to be
sure).
It should work in any scenario where zyn exposes its remote OSC API and
when the Zyn instance receives MIDI CC events.
This should include when it is run as a plugin or as a standalone with
or without an attached UI instance.
--Mark
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mark D. McCurry <mark.d.mccurry(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mark.d.mccurry@gmail.com>> wrote:
The majority of Zyn parameters can be bound via MIDI learn and
there's a
good number of parameters which update running notes (added within
the past
version or two) on changes to either the GUI controls or bound
MIDI CCs.
This is not possible when usng a custom plugin GUI inside a host.
OK, so when is it
possible? Only when using it standalone & headless, or are
there any other combo? 
8 Jul
8 Jul
4:48 p.m.
On 07/08/2016 01:28 PM, Philip Yassin wrote:
It has been like this for as long as I can remember:
When I insert a
ZASFX plugin instance in a Qtractor session, gone is the joy I have
editing my session files, because all the ZADSFX entries are messed up:
the "<" character is represented by its ASCII entity: "<"
and it make
even my Emacs choke: scrambles the formatting, the syntax highlight, the
indentation, everything. The right chevron is OK.
Looks like this:
(...)
<plugins>
<plugin type="LV2">
<filename>http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net</filename>
<index>0</index>
<label>ZynAddSubFX</label>
<preset></preset>
<direct-access-param>-1</direct-access-param>
<activated>1</activated>
<configs>
<config key="urn:distrho:state">
<?xml version="1.0f" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE ZynAddSubFX-data>
<ZynAddSubFX-data version-major="2" version-minor="5"
version-revision="4" ZynAddSubFX-author="Nasca Octavian Paul">
<INFORMATION />
<BASE_PARAMETERS>
(...)
I hate to be the "Sales dept guy in the tech open-space" but surely
/this doesn't sound like something that would be that hard to fix/ (tm) ;p
Oh, and it doesn't cause any other problem that I can think of, BTW. But
still.
Phil
PS - ZynAddSubFx is, despite everything, the coolest synth I worked
with, by far. I want to warmly thank everybody that made using it in
Qtractor possible, guys, you are heroes of mine.
PPS -Is there any plans to have (at least some of) its controls
automatable? I asked this in a whisper because I want it so bad it's
ridiculous :p
uh oh... maybe it's the distrho implementation lv2_state to blame? maybe
a lv2::string is being reported (by disthro), and then qtractor's xml
parser (qt xml/dom) just escapes the state as bland xml::cdata aka. POD
(plain old data)?
otoh. zynaddsubfx is a dang complicated contraption... i doubt it will
ever have any subset (yes, tiny subset) of parameters that may have any
reasonable automatable capabilities, besides, of course, the nominal
ones: read channel volume, panning, modulation, filter cutoff and reso,
regular effect-sends, like chorus and reverb. and that is already plenty
overwhelming to address from the plugin pov. (no matter it's vst or lv2
we're talking). from a host's stand point, it gets what it gets, nothing
else. yoshimi might have an edge over there, but still, you get what you
get :)
cheers
--
rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela
5:26 p.m.
On 07-08, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
uh oh... maybe it's the distrho implementation
lv2_state to blame? maybe a
lv2::string is being reported (by disthro), and then qtractor's xml parser
(qt xml/dom) just escapes the state as bland xml::cdata aka. POD (plain old
data)?
I checked with falktx about the distrho side of things before posting,
and it should return an unescaped string which contains the xml state of
zyn.
I'd expect your guess about the qt xml/dom to be correct.
otoh. zynaddsubfx is a dang complicated contraption...
i doubt it will ever
have any subset (yes, tiny subset) of parameters that may have any
reasonable automatable capabilities, besides, of course, the nominal ones:
So,
it's not going to have a 'fixed' set of parameters which can be
modulated/automated/etc.
Last time I counted the total possible parameters given the default
number of parts/kits/voices/etc there's a bit over 6,000,000 parameters.
Think about how big of a .ttl that would be :p
The way that MIDI learn works is:
1. you select one of these many parameters
(Middle click or CTRL+right click in the fltk/ntk UI)
(if you're in a version where this doesn't lauch correctly use
zynaddsubfx-ext-gui osc.udp://localhost:PORT)
2. you send zyn an unbound MIDI CC
3. zyn creates an internal mapping from MIDI CC -> internal parameter
This isn't visible as a standard lv2/vst/etc parameter, so it's quite
non-standard in that sense, but IMO it's a reasonable solution given the
scope of zyn.
So, remove your doubt and enjoy the non-standard solution to this problem.
--Mark
9 Jul
9 Jul
2:50 a.m.
New subject: midi bindings -- was Re: ZASFX is mean with my Qtractor XML session files
On 07/08/2016 05:26 PM, Mark D. McCurry wrote:
Last time I counted the total possible parameters
given the default
number of parts/kits/voices/etc there's a bit over 6,000,000 parameters.
Think about how big of a .ttl that would be :p
The way that MIDI learn works is:
1. you select one of these many parameters
(Middle click or CTRL+right click in the fltk/ntk UI)
(if you're in a version where this doesn't lauch correctly use
zynaddsubfx-ext-gui osc.udp://localhost:PORT)
2. you send zyn an unbound MIDI CC
3. zyn creates an internal mapping from MIDI CC -> internal parameter
This isn't visible as a standard lv2/vst/etc parameter, so it's quite
non-standard in that sense, but IMO it's a reasonable solution given the
scope of zyn.
So, remove your doubt and enjoy the non-standard solution to this problem.
+1
setBfree uses exactly the same approach, with a slight difference is
step 2: it does not have to be unbound: one can re-assign in one step.
setbfree is nowhere near 6M parameters, but similarly large.
There was some idea floating around to expose plugin parameter bindings
to a host via LV2 Patch::Set/Get
IMHO that makes sense for effects which otherwise don't parse midi
itself, nor have any synth related concepts of programs or banks.
Note: Any parameter that can be automated on a timeline (exposed as
normal control-port) should never ever be set by a plugin itself via
midi-bindings of otherwise. That'll lead to inconsistent parameters.
ciao,
robin
5:17 a.m.
New subject: midi bindings -- was Re: ZASFX is mean with my Qtractor XML session files
On 07-09, Robin Gareus wrote:
On 07/08/2016 05:26 PM, Mark D. McCurry wrote:
Interesting.
There are trade-offs with either CC grabbing approach.
I'm undecided if it would make sense to eventually add the complexity of
a user selectable learning mode or not.
When I first put MIDI learn in place I'd imagine that it would primarily
be used in two scenarios:
1. patch design
2. adding freeform changes as a piece (e.g. stuff closer to droning
pieces)
(since updates to running notes has been added there's also the
use case of automating parameters within normal songs (though there's
certainly plenty of work left in figuring out how to interpolate
some parameter values nicely))
With patch design in mind, my own (somewhat limited) workflow and one
that I've seen in quite a few video tutorials is to generate a small
sequence and loop it until you're satisfied with the result.
This means that you can have a sequencer injecting notes and CCs as well
as external hardware controllers injecting events.
In this case if you learn to the first observed CC (bound/unbound) then
the sequencer could grab different parameters while waiting for an
unbound one makes it easier to isolate CCs involved with physical
controllers.
Also waiting for bound CCs makes it easy to queue up a series of
controls to be learned and then input a series of physical knob
(which zyn's librtosc does).
Of course this approach does make it a bit more complex to unlearn or
reassign parameters, so there are cases where each approach is more
suitable.
Hopefully that's not too much rambling,
--Mark
Last time I counted the total possible parameters
given the default
number of parts/kits/voices/etc there's a bit over 6,000,000 parameters.
Think about how big of a .ttl that would be :p
The way that MIDI learn works is:
1. you select one of these many parameters
(Middle click or CTRL+right click in the fltk/ntk UI)
(if you're in a version where this doesn't lauch correctly use
zynaddsubfx-ext-gui osc.udp://localhost:PORT)
2. you send zyn an unbound MIDI CC
3. zyn creates an internal mapping from MIDI CC -> internal parameter
This isn't visible as a standard lv2/vst/etc parameter, so it's quite
non-standard in that sense, but IMO it's a reasonable solution given the
scope of zyn.
So, remove your doubt and enjoy the non-standard solution to this problem.
+1
setBfree uses exactly the same approach, with a slight difference is
step 2: it does not have to be unbound: one can re-assign in one step.
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9 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Mark D. McCurry -
Paul Davis -
Philip Yassin -
Robin Gareus -
Rui Nuno Capela