18 Jun
2013
18 Jun
'13
12:52 p.m.
Anyone else noticed this:
Ardour 3.1-3-g1606996: changing the meter source (in/pre/post/custom)
in a mixer strip generates clicks in the audio output.
??
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
18 Jun
18 Jun
2:24 p.m.
inevitable, since you are changing the order of processors in the channel
strip. in some setups, you will notice the click as this happens, in others
you will not.
i considered a design in which every possible metering point had a "tap"
already in place, but this doesn't work for the "custom" option, hence the
current design.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org>wrote;wrote:
Anyone else noticed this:
Ardour 3.1-3-g1606996: changing the meter source (in/pre/post/custom)
in a mixer strip generates clicks in the audio output.
??
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
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6:12 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 08:24:29AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
inevitable, since you are changing the order of
processors in the channel
strip. in some setups, you will notice the click as this happens, in others
you will not.
This makes A3 unusable for live work. For the simple reason that nobody expects
such a thing to happen, not any more than e.g. using a PFL should cause clicks.
I will refrain from mentioning the not-so-kind adjectives that would be used
to describe a HW mixer doing such a thing.
i considered a design in which every possible metering
point had a "tap"
already in place, but this doesn't work for the "custom" option, hence the
current design.
Why shouldn't that work for the custom point ? After all it *is* a 'tap'
and not a processor. And even if it is implemented as a processor (with an
audio output that downstream depends on), the custom point could just stay
in place once created, along with any other metering point, active or not.
As a bonus you can at least see were it is, even if not active. ISTR things
were like that in earlier releases, but I could be mistaken.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
6:16 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org>wrote;wrote:
processors can be implemented that have no (builtiin) output, and the meter
is one of them.
the custom point could just stay
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 08:24:29AM -0400, Paul Davis
wrote:
add it to the list of several hundred other items that all make A3 unusable
for this or that.
inevitable, since you are changing the order of
processors in the channel
strip. in some setups, you will notice the click as this happens, in
others
you will not.
This makes A3 unusable for live work. For the simple reason that nobody
expects
such a thing to happen, not any more than e.g. using a PFL should cause
clicks.
I will refrain from mentioning the not-so-kind adjectives that would be
used
to describe a HW mixer doing such a thing.
i considered a design in which every possible
metering point had a "tap"
already in place, but this doesn't work for the "custom" option, hence
the
current design.
Why shouldn't that work for the custom point ? After all it *is* a 'tap'
and not a processor. And even if it is implemented as a processor (with an
audio output that downstream depends on), in place once created, along with any other metering
point, active or not.
As a bonus you can at least see were it is, even if not active. ISTR things
were like that in earlier releases, but I could be mistaken.
you're mistaken, unfortunately. the custom metering point has always been
"special", and does not exist when metering is set to pre/input/post.
6:28 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 08:24:29AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
inevitable, since you are changing the order of
processors in the channel
strip. in some setups, you will notice the click as
this happens, in others
you will not.
This makes A3 unusable for live work. For the simple reason that nobody expects
such a thing to happen, not any more than e.g. using a PFL should cause clicks.
I will refrain from mentioning the not-so-kind adjectives that would be used
to describe a HW mixer doing such a thing.
add it to the list of several hundred other items that
all make A3 unusable for this or that.
Fons - could you outline a few of the needs
to relocate such taps during a live performance?I don't have much knowledge either way
but you always have context behind your remarks andthat might help to put the issue into
perspective.
Having those taps are useful for reviewing signals levels, looking for sources of
noise/hum, butI would probably prefer to select those taps during soundcheck rather then
when actually live, bythat time it might already be too late, but hey - you have a _lot_
more experience here.
Regards, nick.
7:09 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 06:28:39PM +0200, Nick Copeland wrote:
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 08:24:29AM -0400, Paul Davis
wrote:
Not answering for Fons, but I've done a lot of live sound mixing over the years.
In live mixing you often need to meter at different points in the signal chain to
check levels, as they are constantly changing, often unpredictably. Nothing ever
stays as it was in a sound check. (I personally wouldn't use a DAW running
on commodity computer hardware for live mixing, but that's another matter ;-)
John
inevitable, since you are changing the order of
processors in the channel
strip. in some setups, you will notice the click
as this happens, in others
you will not.
This makes A3 unusable for live work. For the simple reason that nobody expects
such a thing to happen, not any more than e.g. using a PFL should cause clicks.
I will refrain from mentioning the not-so-kind adjectives that would be used
to describe a HW mixer doing such a thing.
add it to the list of several hundred other items
that all make A3 unusable for this or that.
Fons - could you outline a few of the
needs to relocate such taps during a live performance?I don't have much knowledge
either way but you always have context behind your remarks andthat might help to put the
issue into perspective.
Having those taps are useful for reviewing signals levels, looking for sources of
noise/hum, butI would probably prefer to select those taps during soundcheck rather then
when actually live, bythat time it might already be too late, but hey - you have a _lot_
more experience here.
Regards, nick. 
19 Jun
19 Jun
12:38 a.m.
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:23:05 +0100
John Rigg <ladev6(a)jrigg.co.uk> wrote:
In live mixing you often need to meter at different
points in the
signal chain to check levels, as they are constantly changing, often
unpredictably. Nothing ever stays as it was in a sound check.
Agreed. Though all my live mixing experience was with analog devices, I
too was pleased when provided with noiseless-in-pa-free metering
options.
A DAW is not a live mixing console, that's true but for a couple of
years, I've been seeing, from the audience, digital desks looking closer
and closer to DAWs, blurring the frontier.
ardour must have other priorities, and rightfully so.
Have a nice day.
-- David
1:39 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:38:26 +0200 David <dplist(a)free.fr> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:23:05 +0100
John Rigg <ladev6(a)jrigg.co.uk> wrote:
What is the difference between a multi-track-recorder(*) with
low-latency "monitoring", mixer, effects and remote-control abilities
(mackie, midi, osc) on one hand and a low-latency fully digital
mixer with effects, multi-track recording and remote-control abilities
(mackie, midi, osc(?))?
See, I couldn't spot it either...
To rephrase Fons:
Why the hell would my main-output click when I change my tech-headphone
from pfl to afl? Regardless whether "main" is a PA or just the other
guys listening in the studio, this shouldn't happen.
And why should it be technically needed to have this behaviour?
Monitoring should be feed from the channels in parallel to the main
audio-flow, not disrupting the audio-flow.
Have fun,
Arnold
(*) I know, its an awfull simplification of what ardour is...
In live mixing you often need to meter at
different points in the
signal chain to check levels, as they are constantly changing, often
unpredictably. Nothing ever stays as it was in a sound check.
Agreed. Though all my live mixing experience was with analog devices,
I too was pleased when provided with noiseless-in-pa-free metering
options.
A DAW is not a live mixing console, that's true but for a couple of
years, I've been seeing, from the audience, digital desks looking
closer and closer to DAWs, blurring the frontier.
1 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 06:28:39PM +0200, Nick Copeland wrote:
Fons - could you outline a few of the needs to
relocate
such taps during a live performance ?
Sure I could give examples of when/why I'd change the metering
point, or use a PFL, or do anything similar that shouldn't affect
main outputs during some live activity. And any such example could
easily be brushed aside by saying - rightly - that I could have
handled that particular case differently. But all that would be
completely irrelevant. Selecting points to monitor or measure is
part of the way a mixer is used, in whatever application.
Sometimes you need to, many times it's done just for reassurance.
Ask any sound engineer what he'd think of a mixer that produces
clicks in the main signal path when you want to measure or hear
some point in it. There is just no reason why it ever should.
Then try to convince him/her that it's 'inevitable'.
Surely, a car would still be usable if it goes into 5th gear
when you switch on the radio. You'll just learn not to do that
when going uphill. You can probably still fly an airplane if
the autopilot goes off course whenever the 'fasten seatbelt'
light is switched on or off. After ending up in Parma a few
times while the destination was Berlin, even the dumbest pilot
will know what to do. And yes, you can probably still use A3
when it produces clicks when no half decent mixer would.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
1:40 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org>wrote;wrote:
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 06:28:39PM +0200, Nick
Copeland wrote:
AFL/PFL/Solo-In-Place is unrelated to the metering issue, and should not
click.
Fons - could you outline a few of the needs to
relocate
such taps during a live performance ?
Sure I could give examples of when/why I'd change the metering
point, or use a PFL, Ask any sound engineer what he'd think of a mixer
that produces
clicks in the main signal path when you want to measure or hear
some point in it.
Ask the same engineer whether their favorite mixer allows them to meter
between the EQ and the compressor in each strip, and then we can talk about
the comparison.
3:25 p.m.
Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org> writes:
Anyone else noticed this:
Ardour 3.1-3-g1606996: changing the meter source (in/pre/post/custom)
in a mixer strip generates clicks in the audio output.
The region editor as well:
http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=2072
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
3:45 p.m.
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Esben Stien <b0ef(a)esben-stien.name> wrote:
Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org> writes:
this is completely, utterly unrelated to the issue being discussed.
Anyone else noticed this:
Ardour 3.1-3-g1606996: changing the meter source (in/pre/post/custom)
in a mixer strip generates clicks in the audio output.
The region editor as well:
http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=2072
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12 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Arnold Krille -
David -
Esben Stien -
Fons Adriaensen -
John Rigg -
Nick Copeland -
Paul Davis