What I'd ***really*** would like to see is how it looks once you do Command-E (i.e. it "unlocks" the patch and all the wires between the objects suddenly appear). Because in a MAX/MSP GUI, the wires between the objects (and some objects too) are hidden when the patch is "locked". I've seen rather similar developments 2 years ago at Ircam and I still haven't recovered of the Command-E: parts of the patch surface were black because of the wires density!!! These applications are presented here (site in french): http://www.educnet.education.fr/musique/tice/applications/musiclab/index.htm The Windows version has been done with Macromedia Director for the GUI and jMax running without GUI for MIDI processing. The Mac version has been done with Max/MSP. The developement of the Windows version of the 6 applications took about 24 men-months, including porting jMax to Windows, and the development was largely parallel between the GUIs' developpers and the patchs developpers. Just my 2cents about MAX/MSP GUIs... François On Thu, 2003-03-20 at 16:04, Dave Griffiths wrote: