27 Jul
2009
27 Jul
'09
6:41 p.m.
While I'd normally respect the private nature of any
message, this one goes well above any reasonable limit
so I do feel free to quote it:
----- Forwarded message from laseray(a)gmail.com -----
From: laseray(a)gmail.com
To: Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:29:23 -0400
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:11:54 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 08:33:30PM +0200, Jörn
Nettingsmeier wrote:
Hey, go fuck yourself. Is that corrosive enough for you?
You should keep your mouth shut when you do not understand things.
You rude insulting bastard.
----- End forwarded message -----
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
welcome to the linux audio developers'
community, thanks for joining
this list.
(and lots more)
While being away to have dinner at some nice place in the Italian
countryside I've been musing about writing to prof. Keller.
No need to do so as Joern has basically said everything I'd wanted
to say. But I want to repeat his welcome, and would want to reassure
Bob that most of us are considerably less corrosive and rude than
the one member he's had to deal with up to now.
Kind regards from hot Parma, 
6:51 p.m.
Fons Adriaensen wrote:
While I'd normally respect the private nature of
any
message, this one goes well above any reasonable limit
so I do feel free to quote it:
----- Forwarded message from laseray(a)gmail.com -----
From: laseray(a)gmail.com
To: Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:29:23 -0400
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:11:54 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
What wrong with this, just a misspell.
"go fork yourself!"
;)
\r
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 08:33:30PM +0200, Jörn
Nettingsmeier wrote:
Hey, go fuck yourself. Is that corrosive enough for you?
You should keep your mouth shut when you do not understand things.
You rude insulting bastard.
welcome to the linux audio developers'
community, thanks for joining
this list.
(and lots more)
While being away to have dinner at some nice place in the Italian
countryside I've been musing about writing to prof. Keller.
No need to do so as Joern has basically said everything I'd wanted
to say. But I want to repeat his welcome, and would want to reassure
Bob that most of us are considerably less corrosive and rude than
the one member he's had to deal with up to now.
Kind regards from hot Parma,
7:09 p.m.
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:50:34PM +0200, Grammostola Rosea wrote:
What wrong with this, just a misspell.
"go fork yourself!"
:-) :-)
More than one /me ? Would be hell ! :-)
Devils there are supposed to use large
forks as well...
Ciao,
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
6:54 p.m.
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:33:48 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
While I'd normally respect the private nature of
any
message, this one goes well above any reasonable limit
so I do feel free to quote it:
See this is exactly the kind of person that is like keller.
Disrespects privacy, sides with the wrong. Definitely deserves
a good insult. Thus, proving my point that they should shut
their mouth when they know nothing.
I am really starting think that a number of people that are responding
on this thread are not really getting it. They seem to side with the bad
person, rather than the correct one. What is wrong with people?
I know, easily manipulated by nice words but unwilling to examine
the content of anything that does not fit that. Weak-minded.
Raymond
28 Jul
28 Jul
2:10 a.m.
On Monday 27 July 2009 17:01:43 laseray(a)gmail.com wrote:
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:33:48 Fons Adriaensen
wrote:
wow...
I don't know... but unless you had a pretty good relationship with Fons before
you sent him that private message (how long did you ponder whether or not to
send it out after writing it? what did you hope to gain from it? Have you
considered other methods of letting of steam?), I can understand why he is
surprised about getting such a private message in reply to a public post on
this list. If you cannot reflect upon how your style of writing will be
perceived by others, and what impression they will get from you, then you
really have a problem. If you have an agressive style, then you have to be
able to take a grain of salt from others too.
Having heard the story from two sides now, regarding Improvisor and its source
code, I can see the reasoning (and frustrations) from both sides.
I can also see that you have a style in acting and writing that tends towards
the agressive (which is what Fons was referring to, I think).
I also gather that mr. Keller is not familiar with the way many open source
software is released, and thus has chosen another way, which may be more
suitable for his target audience.
As far as I understand, providing the source code upon request is in
accordance with the GPL, and a friendly email in reply to a friendly request,
saying that the source code will be sent as soon as he returns from holiday
and/or conference, seems totally fine with me.
And I'm sure in the next version the about box will be more explicit about the
GPL.
Personally, I always use 10 days of reply time to an email as a standard,
before starting to worry or resending emails - after 2 or 3 times, I might get
more agressive, or look for alternative methods of contact, since people may
just choose to be (or be forced to be due to circumstances) offline for a
while (it can be quite healthy).
For similar reasons some people create auto-reply messages when they go on
holiday, so that the original sender knows when the person will be back again
to reply to the mail, so he doesn't have to worry.
I've also found that people are generally more willing to give you things, if
you ask friendly, and tell them how great their project is, than if you take a
more confrontational approach.
sincerely,
Marije
While I'd normally respect the private
nature of any
message, this one goes well above any reasonable limit
so I do feel free to quote it:
See this is exactly the kind of person that is like keller.
Disrespects privacy, sides with the wrong. Definitely deserves
a good insult. Thus, proving my point that they should shut
their mouth when they know nothing. 
27 Jul
27 Jul
6:56 p.m.
This is not against Fons, but I wonder that there's no understanding for
passion by several people. Sending this private massage is also adding
fuel to the fire. I guess Fons, there are a lot of mails in several
lists where you in a more distinguished kind said something similar. Are
the words important?
I thought everything is fine now. Bob will open the source and certainly
Bob and Raymond still are exited, this is human nature.
I'm not only subscribed to Linux mailing lists, but I only know flame
wars from Linux mailing lists and forums.
Hopefully I have learned to behave better by myself.
Fons Adriaensen wrote:
While I'd normally respect the private nature of
any
message, this one goes well above any reasonable limit
so I do feel free to quote it:
----- Forwarded message from laseray(a)gmail.com -----
From: laseray(a)gmail.com
To: Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:29:23 -0400
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:11:54 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 08:33:30PM +0200, Jörn
Nettingsmeier wrote:
Hey, go fuck yourself. Is that corrosive enough for you?
You should keep your mouth shut when you do not understand things.
You rude insulting bastard.
----- End forwarded message ----- welcome to the linux audio developers'
community, thanks for joining
this list.
(and lots more)
While being away to have dinner at some nice place in the Italian
countryside I've been musing about writing to prof. Keller.
No need to do so as Joern has basically said everything I'd wanted
to say. But I want to repeat his welcome, and would want to reassure
Bob that most of us are considerably less corrosive and rude than
the one member he's had to deal with up to now.
Kind regards from hot Parma,
7:54 p.m.
Hi,
On Monday 27 July 2009 22:56:27 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
This is not against Fons, but I wonder that
there's no understanding for
passion by several people. Sending this private massage is also adding
fuel to the fire. I guess Fons, there are a lot of mails in several
lists where you in a more distinguished kind said something similar. Are
the words important?
How we react in times of high stress says _a lot_ about us. So I think it is
pretty okay of Fons to publish these words. And while Fons surely has his own
way of "extreme reactions" I never found him to be that impolite and
insulting.
I'm not only subscribed to Linux mailing lists,
but I only know flame
wars from Linux mailing lists and forums.
Hopefully I have learned to behave better by myself.
You should read the discussions on heise.de. You don't know flamewars till you
read those. And these are probably still nothing against good-old usenet or so
I have heard...
And from my expirience from various high-volume lists (kde-devel, gentoo-
users, gentoo-users-de and some more): This is just small. Not enough people
and not enough days of senseless, immature name-calling to be counted as a big
flamewar. Maybe a small flamewar-lein? :-)
/me is getting a good night of sleep now. Two much popcorn while watching
these discussions.
Have fun,
Arnold
PS: You all do remember what your next employer will find out about you when
googling your name, do you? :-)
28 Jul
28 Jul
8:04 a.m.
David Robillard wrote:
On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 23:54 +0200, Arnold Krille
wrote:
And some guys have the same first name and last name like I've got. I'm
using a nick, my real name is last name Simpson, first name Bart, this
is always a problem when an employer googles my name.//
PS: You all do remember what your next employer
will find out about you when
googling your name, do you? :-)
We were all just kidding!
:D
-dr 
27 Jul
27 Jul
8:57 p.m.
Man, This discussion is too good not to stick an oar in. As far as Fons goes, the
forwarded mail is simply stoking the flames. I have a few email from him, privately,
that are extremely derogatory of anybody on this list with artistic instincts and he
might
also consider keeping his private messages as such. Fons had just got back from
yet another pizza party, he says, so perhaps he had another bottle too many and
his fingers ran away with him (before he flames me, I am also guilty of this at
the very minute although I went for a curry and it was definitely hotter than parma).
Fons has a tendency to talk a lot of drivel, then at times be unbelievably lucid
although I am not convinced this mail fell into the latter. His message tends to
be more succinct in those cases.
Anyway, enough of hassling Fons, he contributes too immensely to Linux Audio
to heckled more than he is due.
The message I did want to give, before I got sidetracked by what could have been
a reasonable message to him (and I am pleased he forwarded it since it was firstly
quite funny and secondly embodied a number of things I have wanted to say to him
in the past but lacked that same clarity of expression), was that either you do make
software freely available or you don't. If you can't let go of what you have
created
and let it go its own course then it was a mistake to put it out there to start with. If
you really want to consider the legal alternatives then please just release your code
on MacOS, then release it on Windows and finally sue yourself. That would be fun
and it would at least leave the rest of us to get on with what we are doing.
Either embrace the concept or don't get involved.
Open source, publicly released code is just that. You put it out in the public. You
let the cat out of the bag. There is no point in going bawling to some non existent
legal 'daddy' to change that fact. Either do release or don't release it but
please,
don't look for sympathy from the open source community for the pain inflicted by
somebody else picking up what you have done and improving/butchering/charging
for the same. Unix is littered with failed lawsuits.
The code is out there.
"we have to make sure the old choice [Windows] doesn't disappear”.
Jim Wong, president of IT products, Acer
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:33:48 +0200
From: fons(a)kokkinizita.net
To: linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: [LAD] Fw: Re: At the hands of Professor Keller and Raymond
While I'd normally respect the private nature of any
message, this one goes well above any reasonable limit
so I do feel free to quote it:
----- Forwarded message from laseray(a)gmail.com -----
From: laseray(a)gmail.com
To: Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:29:23 -0400
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:11:54 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
Share your memories online with anyone you want.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photos-sha…
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 08:33:30PM +0200, Jörn
Nettingsmeier wrote:
Hey, go fuck yourself. Is that corrosive enough for you?
You should keep your mouth shut when you do not understand things.
You rude insulting bastard.
----- End forwarded message -----
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev welcome to the linux audio developers'
community, thanks for joining
this list.
(and lots more)
While being away to have dinner at some nice place in the Italian
countryside I've been musing about writing to prof. Keller.
No need to do so as Joern has basically said everything I'd wanted
to say. But I want to repeat his welcome, and would want to reassure
Bob that most of us are considerably less corrosive and rude than
the one member he's had to deal with up to now.
Kind regards from hot Parma,
10:03 p.m.
On Monday 27 July 2009 18:57:50 Nick Copeland wrote:
Man, This discussion is too good not to stick an oar
in. As far as Fons
goes, the forwarded mail is simply stoking the flames. I have a few email
from him, privately, that are extremely derogatory of anybody on this list
with artistic instincts and he might also consider keeping his private
messages as such. Fons had just got back from yet another pizza party, he
says, so perhaps he had another bottle too many and his fingers ran away
with him (before he flames me, I am also guilty of this at the very minute
although I went for a curry and it was definitely hotter than parma). Fons
has a tendency to talk a lot of drivel, then at times be unbelievably lucid
although I am not convinced this mail fell into the latter. His message
tends to be more succinct in those cases.
Ah, that is too damn funny.
Anyway, enough of hassling Fons, he contributes too immensely to Linux
Audio to heckled more than he is due.
The message I did want to give, before I got sidetracked by what could have
been a reasonable message to him (and I am pleased he forwarded it since it
was firstly quite funny and secondly embodied a number of things I have
wanted to say to him in the past but lacked that same clarity of
expression), was that either you do make software freely available or you
don't. If you can't let go of what you have created and let it go its own
course then it was a mistake to put it out there to start with. If you
really want to consider the legal alternatives then please just release
your code on MacOS, then release it on Windows and finally sue yourself.
That would be fun and it would at least leave the rest of us to get on with
what we are doing.
LMAO.
Either embrace the concept or don't get involved.
Open source, publicly released code is just that. You put it out in the
public. You let the cat out of the bag. There is no point in going bawling
to some non existent legal 'daddy' to change that fact. Either do release
or don't release it but please, don't look for sympathy from the open
source community for the pain inflicted by somebody else picking up what
you have done and improving/butchering/charging for the same. Unix is
littered with failed lawsuits.
The code is out there.
A man after my own heart.
FYI, still have not got any emails from SF, the project is still there, the
files are still there. Not surprisingly. Apparently, Mr. Keller did not
believe me when I said I had been through this before. Don't worry Bob,
there are lots of disingenuous folks out there pretending to be all FOSS and
using the GPL. That's why there are special legal groups and organizations to
protect exactly what I am doing. Look some of those up and check with
them. I'm sure they will get a laugh out of your protests too.
Raymond
28 Jul
28 Jul
12:16 a.m.
New subject: Fw: Re: At the hands of Professor Keller and Raymond
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Fons Adriaensen<fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
While I'd normally respect the private nature of
any
message, this one goes well above any reasonable limit
so I do feel free to quote it:
----- Forwarded message from laseray(a)gmail.com -----
From: laseray(a)gmail.com
To: Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:29:23 -0400
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:11:54 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
I have been following these list serves for a while, but I am just not
interested in this kind of drama, and would like to mention for the
record that I will no longer be following the lad or lau list serves.
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 08:33:30PM +0200, Jörn
Nettingsmeier wrote:
Hey, go fuck yourself. Is that corrosive enough for you?
You should keep your mouth shut when you do not understand things.
You rude insulting bastard.
----- End forwarded message -----
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
welcome to the linux audio developers'
community, thanks for joining
this list.
(and lots more)
While being away to have dinner at some nice place in the Italian
countryside I've been musing about writing to prof. Keller.
No need to do so as Joern has basically said everything I'd wanted
to say. But I want to repeat his welcome, and would want to reassure
Bob that most of us are considerably less corrosive and rude than
the one member he's had to deal with up to now.
Kind regards from hot Parma, 
5:32 a.m.
New subject: Fw: Re: At the hands of Professor Keller and Raymond
Den Tuesday 28 July 2009 04.16.46 skrev Justin Smith:
I have been following these list serves for a while,
but I am just not
interested in this kind of drama, and would like to mention for the
record that I will no longer be following the lad or lau list serves.
That is up to you but a suggestion is that you get your self an email client
with "ignore thread" capabilities in. That saves me from time to time from OT
and over heated discussions.
And for the record. LAD and LAU is seldom hit by this kind of outbursts.
regards,
/bengan
9:12 a.m.
New subject: Fw: Re: At the hands of Professor Keller and Raymond
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Bengt Gördén<bengan(a)bag.org> wrote:
And for the record. LAD and LAU is seldom hit by this
kind of outbursts.
In the last 18 months in LAD we've seen some pretty emotive flamewars
about Reaper, LV2 in closed source software, LinuxSampler licensing,
plugin output negotiation, JACK packaging, JACK and DBUS, PulseAudio,
the way qjackctl starts up jackd, RTKit, and probably some other
things I've forgotten. And this. This isn't a high traffic list; the
flames quite likely outnumber the rest.
Chris
9:25 a.m.
New subject: Fw: Re: At the hands of Professor Keller and Raymond
Den Tuesday 28 July 2009 13.12.06 skrev Chris Cannam:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Bengt
Gördén<bengan(a)bag.org> wrote:
Well. I don't agree. I see quite a lot of emails coming from LAD and LAU and I
don't think it isn't that much. To not agree about some topic is not a
flamewar. But lets not start another flamewar because of that.
Just for the fun of it. Have a look at http://www.flamewars.net. There are
some real outbursts. The one that the ending is "hyperglycemic little troll."
is really state of the art in outbursts.
/bengan
And for the record. LAD and LAU is seldom hit by
this kind of outbursts.
In the last 18 months in LAD we've seen some pretty emotive flamewars
about Reaper, LV2 in closed source software, LinuxSampler licensing,
plugin output negotiation, JACK packaging, JACK and DBUS, PulseAudio,
the way qjackctl starts up jackd, RTKit, and probably some other
things I've forgotten. And this. This isn't a high traffic list; the
flames quite likely outnumber the rest.
9:37 a.m.
New subject: Fw: Re: At the hands of Professor Keller and Raymond
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Den Tuesday 28 July 2009 13.12.06 skrev Chris Cannam:
IMO Linux audio lists tends to flamewars ;) but I don't think it's sad.
At the moment there is a thread about Guitarix and LV2 without a
flamewar. There's a nice mailer called Thunderbird.
Tools > Message Filters... > New... > Copy and paste an unwanted subject
"Audio" means that there will be some artists and artists are emotional
people and yes, artist sometimes are emotional disturbed, but at the
same time gifted musicians, coders etc.
This world isn't perfect.
Ralf
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Bengt
Gördén<bengan(a)bag.org> wrote:
Well. I don't agree. I see quite a lot of emails coming from LAD and LAU and I
don't think it isn't that much. To not agree about some topic is not a
flamewar. But lets not start another flamewar because of that.
Just for the fun of it. Have a look at http://www.flamewars.net. There are
some real outbursts. The one that the ending is "hyperglycemic little troll."
is really state of the art in outbursts.
/bengan And for the record. LAD and LAU is seldom hit by
this kind of outbursts.
In the last 18 months in LAD we've seen some pretty emotive flamewars
about Reaper, LV2 in closed source software, LinuxSampler licensing,
plugin output negotiation, JACK packaging, JACK and DBUS, PulseAudio,
the way qjackctl starts up jackd, RTKit, and probably some other
things I've forgotten. And this. This isn't a high traffic list; the
flames quite likely outnumber the rest.
5542
days inactive
5543
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
20 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Arnold Krille -
Bengt Gördén -
Chris Cannam -
David Robillard -
Fons Adriaensen -
Grammostola Rosea -
Jens M Andreasen -
Justin Smith -
laseray＠gmail.com -
nescivi -
Nick Copeland -
Ralf Mardorf