16 Jul
2006
16 Jul
'06
11:07 a.m.
Hi all,
My name is Jono Bacon (www.jonobacon.org) and I am one of the
developers working on Jokosher, a GStreamer based multi-track audio
editor written in Python for the GNOME desktop. Jokosher is designed
to be really simple to use, and we release our first 0.1 release on
Saturday. You can find out more at www.jokosher.org. although the
brand new, much improved site is released on Saturday too. I am also
one of the members of LUGRadio.
Anyway, for Jokosher 0.2 I want to include LADSPA support. From what I
understand, LADSPA not only provides an audio layer, but also a GUI
layer, so the widgets in the plug-in can be displayed in the host
toolkit. I know there is an antiquated GStreamer bridge for LADSPA,
but in terms of getting the GUI elements to display, I assume I need
Python bindings. Do such bindings exist?
Oh, and by the way, if you are in the UK, we are running an event
called LUGRadio Live 2006 with over 40 speakers, a room full of
exhibitors, lots of BOF sessions and a party. It is held in
Wolverhampton on the 22nd and 23rd July (next weekend). It would be
great to see a fraternity of Linux audio developers there. Anyone want
to come along? See www.lugradio.org/live/2006 for more details.
Thanks folks!
Jono
16 Jul
16 Jul
11:19 a.m.
On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 14:07 +0100, Jono Bacon wrote:
Anyway, for Jokosher 0.2 I want to include LADSPA
support. From what I
understand, LADSPA not only provides an audio layer, but also a GUI
layer, so the widgets in the plug-in can be displayed in the host
toolkit.
It does not. Where did you read that?
DSSI has support for GUIs, but there the GUIs are separate programs that
communicate with the host using OSC, there are no widgets in the
plugins.
LADSPA plugins only know about signal processing, nothing about GUIs.
--
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11:24 a.m.
Hi Lars,
DSSI has support for GUIs, but there the GUIs are
separate programs that
communicate with the host using OSC, there are no widgets in the
plugins.
LADSPA plugins only know about signal processing, nothing about GUIs.
Oh, I was under the impression that each LADSPA plugin had a toolkit
independent spec file (such as an XML) which should be parsed and
rendered in the host toolkit. I must have read about something else.
So how do LADSPA plugins deal with GUI controls?
Also, are you aware of any Python bindings?
Thanks Lars.
Jono
11:29 a.m.
On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 14:24 +0100, Jono Bacon wrote:
Hi Lars,
Some plugins (far from all or even most) have an associated RDF/XML file
that describe some properties of the plugin and its parameters. I don't
know how useful they would be for GUI rendering, I have never tried
writing anything that uses them.
LADSPA plugins themselves usually don't care about GUIs at all, it's up
to the plugin host to create a GUI for the plugin.
DSSI has support for GUIs, but there the GUIs are
separate programs that
communicate with the host using OSC, there are no widgets in the
plugins.
LADSPA plugins only know about signal processing, nothing about GUIs.
Oh, I was under the impression that each LADSPA plugin had a toolkit
independent spec file (such as an XML) which should be parsed and
rendered in the host toolkit. I must have read about something else.
So how do LADSPA plugins deal with GUI controls? Also, are you aware of any Python bindings?
No, sorry.
--
Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible
PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
12:05 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On 7/16/06, Lars Luthman <lars.luthman(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Some plugins (far from all or even most) have an
associated RDF/XML file
that describe some properties of the plugin and its parameters. I don't
know how useful they would be for GUI rendering, I have never tried
writing anything that uses them.
Right, so the xml file is not mandated to represent gui info. I see.
LADSPA plugins themselves usually don't care about
GUIs at all, it's up
to the plugin host to create a GUI for the plugin.
So if i understand you correctly, each host needs to present a
specific gui for plugins. Doesn't this make ladspa not partcularly
'pluggable' if the host needs to know about plugins in the first
place? I thought the point of ladspa was that you could just install
third party pluginsand the gui would just work.
Thanks,
jono
12:28 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 15:05 +0100, Jono Bacon wrote:
So if i understand you correctly, each host needs to
present a
specific gui for plugins. Doesn't this make ladspa not partcularly
'pluggable' if the host needs to know about plugins in the first
place? I thought the point of ladspa was that you could just install
third party pluginsand the gui would just work.
It does "just work", you just get generic GUIs instead of
plugin-specific ones.
There are some "port hints" in the plugin that specify whether a certain
parameter is interpreted as an integer, a boolean, has upper or lower
bounds etc that the host can use to decide whether it should use a
spinbutton or a checkbox or a slider or something else for that
parameter.
You could look at some existing LADSPA hosts with GUIs (e.g. JACK-rack,
Ardour, Om, Hydrogen) to see how they do it.
--
Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible
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12:39 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
Hi Lars,
It does "just work", you just get generic
GUIs instead of
plugin-specific ones.
But surely the GUI is bound to a certain list of plugins. So, when we
get LADSPA support in Jokosher, because we need to make the GUI for
the plugins, we need to basically decide on a list of included plugins
and create the GUIs. Surely this limits the ability for the user to
just install a plugin pack as we won't have GUI for those plugins?
Correct me if I am wrong on this, I am still very new around here. :P
Oh, and I read that someone was working on an XML DTD for plugin GUIs
- what is the current progress on this? I could not find anything out
about it on the LADSPA site.
There are some "port hints" in the plugin
that specify whether a certain
parameter is interpreted as an integer, a boolean, has upper or lower
bounds etc that the host can use to decide whether it should use a
spinbutton or a checkbox or a slider or something else for that
parameter.
I assume that the GStreamer bridge exposes these port hints as
gettable properties. I will check with them.
You could look at some existing LADSPA hosts with GUIs
(e.g. JACK-rack,
Ardour, Om, Hydrogen) to see how they do it.
I plan on doing this. I also noticed there is dsptools which offers
python bindings to LADSPA among other things.
Thanks for imparting your wisdom Lars. :)
Jono
12:44 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 15:38 +0100, Jono Bacon wrote:
Hi Lars,
No, why? You generate the GUIs at runtime - if you load a plugin that
has 4 "boolean" parameters you add 4 checkboxes or levers or whatever
you have to your plugin GUI, and if you load a plugin that has a single
parameter bounded between 0 and 6 you create a slider that slides from 0
to 6 and add it to your plugin GUI.
It does "just work", you just get
generic GUIs instead of
plugin-specific ones.
But surely the GUI is bound to a certain list of plugins. So, when we
get LADSPA support in Jokosher, because we need to make the GUI for
the plugins, we need to basically decide on a list of included plugins
and create the GUIs. Oh, and I read that someone was working on an XML DTD
for plugin GUIs
- what is the current progress on this? I could not find anything out
about it on the LADSPA site.
I don't know anything about that. You could try searching this list or
LAD.
--
Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible
PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
12:50 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 16:44 +0200, Lars Luthman wrote:
I don't know anything about that. You could try
searching this list or
LAD.
I meant LAU.
--
Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible
PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
1:09 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On 7/16/06, Lars Luthman <lars.luthman(a)gmail.com> wrote:
No, why? You generate the GUIs at runtime - if you
load a plugin that
has 4 "boolean" parameters you add 4 checkboxes or levers or whatever
you have to your plugin GUI, and if you load a plugin that has a single
parameter bounded between 0 and 6 you create a slider that slides from 0
to 6 and add it to your plugin GUI.
Right, so I would detect the capabilities of ports and construct a GUI
around that. I get what you mean.
Thanks,
Jono
3:23 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
Right, so I would detect the capabilities of ports and
construct a GUI
around that. I get what you mean.
if gstreamer doesnt wrap all the port-hint query stuff and you dont feel like implementing
it, in LV2 you can parse the port schema with eg Redland Python bindings. presumably the
one-way send-params-to-gstreamer is easier to build than a roundtrip..
17 Jul
17 Jul
12:45 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On 7/17/06, Jono Bacon <jonobacon(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/16/06, Lars Luthman
<lars.luthman(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Have you looked into LV2 btw? It will be ready soon. For your kind of
app i'm assuming DSSI support would be very handy. How well does
jokosher work low latency? Which python jack bindings are you using?
Have you got dsp and gui process separation? I was thinking about a
DAW/midi/osc sequencer with this kind of arch, python for gui, c for
dsp stuff, process separated and communication over OSC.
Loki
No, why? You generate the GUIs at runtime - if
you load a plugin that
has 4 "boolean" parameters you add 4 checkboxes or levers or whatever
you have to your plugin GUI, and if you load a plugin that has a single
parameter bounded between 0 and 6 you create a slider that slides from 0
to 6 and add it to your plugin GUI.
Right, so I would detect the capabilities of ports and construct a GUI
around that. I get what you mean.
Thanks,
Jono
8:38 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On 7/17/06, Loki Davison <loki.davison(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Have you looked into LV2 btw? It will be ready soon.
For your kind of
app i'm assuming DSSI support would be very handy. How well does
jokosher work low latency? Which python jack bindings are you using?
Have you got dsp and gui process separation? I was thinking about a
DAW/midi/osc sequencer with this kind of arch, python for gui, c for
dsp stuff, process separated and communication over OSC.
I had not seen LV2, and it looks very exciting and interesting. DSSI
support would also be good when we get MIDI integration. In terms of
latency, thats a GStreamer issue, and although it is not perfect right
now, the GStreamer guys are looking into solving some syncing issues.
As for Python Jack bindings, we don't use Jack, we use GStreamer. Our
audio processing and GUI is very seperated.
Cheers!
Jono
16 Jul
16 Jul
8:18 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Hello and Python bindings for LADSPA
On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 03:38:59PM +0100, Jono Bacon wrote:
Hi Lars,
It has been proposed several times, but it's not a particularly good idea
IMHO. I was in favour of it for a bit.
- Steve
It does "just work", you just get
generic GUIs instead of
plugin-specific ones.
But surely the GUI is bound to a certain list of plugins. So, when we
get LADSPA support in Jokosher, because we need to make the GUI for
the plugins, we need to basically decide on a list of included plugins
and create the GUIs. Surely this limits the ability for the user to
just install a plugin pack as we won't have GUI for those plugins?
Correct me if I am wrong on this, I am still very new around here. :P
Oh, and I read that someone was working on an XML DTD for plugin GUIs
- what is the current progress on this? I could not find anything out
about it on the LADSPA site.
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13 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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carmen -
Jono Bacon -
Lars Luthman -
Loki Davison -
Steve Harris