8 Sep
2003
8 Sep
'03
11:42 p.m.
Here's a ladspa diff with LADSPA_HINT_MOMENTARY and
LADSPA_HINT_RANDOMISABLE.
Comments please?
Taybin
9 Sep
9 Sep
midnight
lets just do it. i think that personally steve harris should be the
final arbiter of this stuff, after consulting with this list. he's
done more with LADSPA than almost anyone else (perhaps than anyone
else). we've discussed these changes for a while, and IIRC nobody had
any objections.
i'm willing to cede "benign dictatorship" to steve if stefan and
richard are, although richard owns ladspa.org ...
--p
6:02 a.m.
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 09:54:17 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
lets just do it. i think that personally steve harris
should be the
final arbiter of this stuff, after consulting with this list. he's
done more with LADSPA than almost anyone else (perhaps than anyone
else). we've discussed these changes for a while, and IIRC nobody had
any objections.
I'd rather have someone else make the final decision though, for various
reasons - spreading the blame if nothing else :)
Can someone mail Richard off-list? I'm going to be away from email til the
weekend.
- Steve
4:42 p.m.
Well, I'm *half* paying attention...
So we're essentially saying that the momentary thing is a trigger that
operates on 0->positive but not positive->0. I must admit I'm not 100% clear
about the randomisable case from the text.
Do we have example plugins for the two cases?
Cheers,
--Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: linux-audio-dev-admin(a)music.columbia.edu
[mailto:linux-audio-dev-admin@music.columbia.edu]On Behalf Of Steve
Harris
Sent: 09 September 2003 08:47
To: linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] ladspa diff
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 09:54:17 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
lets just do it. i think that personally steve harris
should be the
final arbiter of this stuff, after consulting with this list. he's
done more with LADSPA than almost anyone else (perhaps than anyone
else). we've discussed these changes for a while, and IIRC nobody had
any objections.
I'd rather have someone else make the final decision though, for various
reasons - spreading the blame if nothing else :)
Can someone mail Richard off-list? I'm going to be away from email til the
weekend.
- Steve
12 Sep
12 Sep
9:48 a.m.
Well, I'm *half* paying attention...
So we're essentially saying that the momentary thing is a trigger that
operates on 0->positive but not positive->0. I must admit I'm not 100% clear
about the randomisable case from the text.
Do we have example plugins for the two cases?
sooperlooper is the example for the momentary case. in that case, your
definition isn't quite correct. a momentary control is one that only
causes something to happen when its value transitions between any two
meaningful values. this means that it needs to be reset to a
meaningless value after being set to any meaningful value. this is
required so that "pressing the button twice" does what the user expects.
its actually slightly more complex than that at the code level.
the more i try to explain this, the less convinced i am that we should
add it. it requires the definition of a meaningless value, for a
start, which will require warping/overloading the meaning of some
other value (e.g. using the default as the meaningless value).
however, jesse tried to come up with a way of modelling this kind of
control with existing LADSPA options and couldn't do it. the "requires
reset after every use" is hard to do without it.
the randomisable thing i have no comment on.
2:03 p.m.
Paul Davis wrote on Fri, 12-Sep-2003:
I agree, I do not think a momentary hint would really help in this specialized
case. Sooperlooper will never be a ladspa plugin that any generic
host can use. The better solution to the SL problem is audio-rate
control ports. Then we get sample accurate control, and can easily
specify the "off" value in the plugin's custom semantics.
So the hint we *really* need is the audio-rate control port (or
the control-hinted audio port :)
Well, I'm
*half* paying attention...
So we're essentially saying that the momentary thing is a trigger that
operates on 0->positive but not positive->0. I must admit I'm not 100% clear
about the randomisable case from the text.
Do we have example plugins for the two cases?
sooperlooper is the example for the momentary case. in that case, your
definition isn't quite correct. a momentary control is one that only
causes something to happen when its value transitions between any two
meaningful values. this means that it needs to be reset to a
meaningless value after being set to any meaningful value. this is
required so that "pressing the button twice" does what the user expects.
its actually slightly more complex than that at the code level.
the more i try to explain this, the less convinced i am that we should
add it. it requires the definition of a meaningless value, for a
start, which will require warping/overloading the meaning of some
other value (e.g. using the default as the meaningless value). however, jesse tried to come up with a way of
modelling this kind of
control with existing LADSPA options and couldn't do it. the "requires
reset after every use" is hard to do without it.
The audio rate control port would fix this, but again, only a
custom host could use this plugin, which I'm fine with... apps
to use it are on the way.
jlc
13 Sep
13 Sep
6:38 a.m.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 12:25:20 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
I'm confused. Why would you want a compander to have its side-chain
marked as audio rate control? A side chain really is an audio port.
- Steve
So the hint we
*really* need is the audio-rate control port (or
the control-hinted audio port :)
i agree. i think this would be much more useful, since companders can
use it for side-chain inputs. wow, how's that for a complete turnaround?
6:36 a.m.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 07:43:28 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
the more i try to explain this, the less convinced i
am that we should
add it. it requires the definition of a meaningless value, for a
start, which will require warping/overloading the meaning of some
other value (e.g. using the default as the meaningless value).
It can only be applied to LADSPA_HINT_TOGGLED controls, so the two states
would be 0 and 1, the default would control wether it was normally open or
normally closed.
I will admit that it complicates hosts somewhat, bu the minimum
implemenation would be just "set port value to default after every call to
run()". Modulo some race conditions.
- Steve
6:32 a.m.
On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 07:27:33 +0100, Richard Furse wrote:
Well, I'm *half* paying attention...
So we're essentially saying that the momentary thing is a trigger that
operates on 0->positive but not positive->0. I must admit I'm not 100% clear
about the randomisable case from the text.
Momentary is a UI hint, think of a tempo tap control v's a bypass switch,
one you want to tap rhythmically and and have it send a pulse to the
plugin and one you want to switch between on and off overy time you
activate it (toggle).
Do we have example plugins for the two cases?
Yes, DJEQ has an LFO sync button whcih you currently have to click one to
sync and again to reset it back to the open state.
The gong model has a bunch of parameters and they can be randomised to
find interesting sounds. Mosts of its settings are interesting, but there
are so many paramters that just sliding them all about by hand is
tedious.
- Steve
9 Sep
9 Sep
4:51 p.m.
Steve Harris <S.W.Harris(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk> writes:
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 09:54:17 -0400, Paul Davis
wrote:
I think Steve would make a fine, fine dictator. Benevolent as hell. :-)
Don't sweat the responsibility Steve, you can always "solicit input".
--
Jack O'Quin
Austin, Texas, USA
lets just do it. i think that personally steve
harris should be the
final arbiter of this stuff, after consulting with this list. he's
done more with LADSPA than almost anyone else (perhaps than anyone
else). we've discussed these changes for a while, and IIRC nobody had
any objections.
I'd rather have someone else make the final decision though, for various
reasons - spreading the blame if nothing else :) 
10 Sep
10 Sep
4:03 a.m.
On 08 Sep 2003 21:28:17 -0400
Taybin Rutkin <taybin(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
Here's a ladspa diff with LADSPA_HINT_MOMENTARY
and
LADSPA_HINT_RANDOMISABLE.
Comments please?
Taybin
Looks good to me, although you'll need to spell-check it first
('supprising', 'unpleasent') :)
-
Myk
7706
days inactive
7711
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Jack O'Quin -
Jesse Chappell -
Mike Rawes -
Paul Davis -
Richard Furse -
Richard Guenther -
Steve Harris -
Taybin Rutkin