28 Mar
2012
28 Mar
'12
1:44 a.m.
Hi Everyone
Im would like to experiment using microphone arrays ( 24 channels ) and I
am just wondering if it is possible for me to use 3 units of Behringer
ADA8000 connected via ADAT to HDSP 9652. My tools run only with ALSA
supported devices and I checked through ALSA website, the HDSP 9652 seemed
to be OK. Im just wondering if the set-up I mentioned is possible ? Will
there be any issue at all if i use the ADA8000 as far as ALSA is concerned
? Thank you very much, I really would appreciate any suggestions or
comments. Thank you
Phil
28 Mar
28 Mar
11:35 a.m.
Hi,
im running it for a few year... works perfect
bye
Ck
On 28.03.2012 01:44, Phil T wrote:
Hi Everyone
Im would like to experiment using microphone arrays ( 24 channels )
and I am just wondering if it is possible for me to use 3 units of
Behringer ADA8000 connected via ADAT to HDSP 9652. My tools run only
with ALSA supported devices and I checked through ALSA website, the
HDSP 9652 seemed to be OK. Im just wondering if the set-up I mentioned
is possible ? Will there be any issue at all if i use the ADA8000 as
far as ALSA is concerned ? Thank you very much, I really would
appreciate any suggestions or comments. Thank you
Phil
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11:03 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 08:44:28AM +0900, Phil T wrote:
Im would like to experiment using microphone arrays (
24 channels ) and I
am just wondering if it is possible for me to use 3 units of Behringer
ADA8000 connected via ADAT to HDSP 9652. My tools run only with ALSA
supported devices and I checked through ALSA website, the HDSP 9652 seemed
to be OK. Im just wondering if the set-up I mentioned is possible ? Will
there be any issue at all if i use the ADA8000 as far as ALSA is concerned
? Thank you very much, I really would appreciate any suggestions or
comments. Thank you
Microphone arrays usually mean you need well-defined or at
least repeatable and stable gain settings. This is quite
problematic with the ADA8000.
Also if you build them into a portable rack case make
sure you leave plently of open space between them. Some
of my collegues here put four ADA8000 on top of each
other in 6U rack - just 1U space at the top and bottom.
Three of them were fried. You only know when the damage
is done.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
11:26 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:03:24PM +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
[ADA-8000]
other in 6U rack - just 1U space at the top and
bottom.
Three of them were fried. You only know when the damage
is done.
I've just replaced a broken capacitor in an ADA-8000's power supply
yesterday.
No idea if there's more to break, though. ;) Do you happen to know the
symptoms in your case?
Anyway, channel 5 here always had some serious hum at -60dBFS, so I
guess I have to open it again. Yet another story why the ADA-8000
gained a reputation for poor reliability.
Cheers
--
mail: adi(a)thur.de http://adi.thur.de PGP/GPG: key via keyserver
11:42 p.m.
On 03/28/2012 11:25 PM, Adrian Knoth wrote:
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:03:24PM +0000, Fons
Adriaensen wrote:
[ADA-8000]
the same happend here once.
another one has problems with the phantom power, it is sometimes
(unpredictably) disappearing on some channels, making it unusable for
recording. Gains tend to drift and are hard to adjust. A third one has a
low frequency noise on one channel. The fourth one is fine right now,
although the delay is slightly different to the other three ones (about
0.5ms difference)...
Until now I had no problems with the outputs of the ADA8000.
Recently I made a recording (lute & singing), partly with ADA8000,
partly with RME Micstasy, both with the same Neumann mics, and I could
barely hear the difference...
Giso
other in 6U rack - just 1U space at the top and
bottom.
Three of them were fried. You only know when the damage
is done.
I've just replaced a broken capacitor in an ADA-8000's power supply
yesterday.
No idea if there's more to break, though. ;) Do you happen to know the
symptoms in your case?
Anyway, channel 5 here always had some serious hum at -60dBFS, so I
guess I have to open it again. Yet another story why the ADA-8000
gained a reputation for poor reliability.
Cheers
29 Mar
29 Mar
2:27 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:42:03PM +0200, Giso Grimm wrote:
Recently I made a recording (lute & singing),
partly with ADA8000,
partly with RME Micstasy, both with the same Neumann mics, and I could
barely hear the difference...
Which is hardly suprising. ;) I've found the following quote on the
internet:
--- cut here ---
Yes, ADA8000 is based on Alesis (now WaveFront Semiconductors) A/D
(AL1101), D/A (AL1201), an ADAT encoder (OptoGen AL1401) and an ADAT
receiver (OptoRec AL1402).
The ADA8000 is a copy of the RME AEB8-I (I had the scheme for it if you
want), and the scheme is simply an expansion to 8 channels (instead of
2) of the appnote given by Alesis for OptoGen and OptoRec.
--- and here again ---
I've already posted the following blind test:
http://adi.loris.tv/converters/
One device is Lynx Aurora 16, the other one is Behringer ADA-8000.
No information was given whether A=Aurora and B=Behringer or vice versa,
and audio engineers were asked to judge.
They failed, the outcome was equally distributed, so it's fair to say
that not even trained ears were able to to hear a difference.
Neither can I.
Cheers
PS: The orig file was played from the DAW and re-recorded, thus
involving both - DACs and ADCs.
--
mail: adi(a)thur.de http://adi.thur.de PGP/GPG: key via keyserver
6:31 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 02:27:42PM +0200, Adrian Knoth wrote:
Yes, ADA8000 is based on Alesis (now WaveFront
Semiconductors) A/D
(AL1101), D/A (AL1201), an ADAT encoder (OptoGen AL1401) and an ADAT
receiver (OptoRec AL1402).
The ADA8000 is a copy of the RME AEB8-I (I had the scheme for it if you
want), and the scheme is simply an expansion to 8 channels (instead of
2) of the appnote given by Alesis for OptoGen and OptoRec.
Which (the appnote) does not include the mic preamp. Strangely
enough the ADA8000 preamp has a very good noise figure if used
at maximum gain (real max, not just close). It gets very bad
once gain is reduced. That is due to *bad design*, you can
predict this (without even doing any calculation) by just
looking at the circuit diagram. And the line input is just an
attenuator feeding the mic preamp. I don't think all that is
a copy of anything RME.
Apart from that, 50,150,250 Hz hum levels increase from left
to right (i.e. as you get closer to the power supply). Which
gets hot enough to fry some eggs if you take 5 mA of phantom
power from each input.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
6:44 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 02:27:42PM +0200, Adrian Knoth wrote:
I've already posted the following blind test:
http://adi.loris.tv/converters/
One device is Lynx Aurora 16, the other one is Behringer ADA-8000.
No information was given whether A=Aurora and B=Behringer or vice versa,
and audio engineers were asked to judge.
They failed, the outcome was equally distributed, so it's fair to say
that not even trained ears were able to to hear a difference.
No surprise.
With *that* test file (distorted, probably clipped, 1 dB dynamic range)
even a 6-bit AD/DA would sound perfect.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
9:09 p.m.
On 03/28/2012 11:42 PM, Giso Grimm wrote:
On 03/28/2012 11:25 PM, Adrian Knoth wrote:
Here you might listen, the same piece, same musicians, same place, same
mics (Neumann KM184 pair), same positions, same lute (although it was at
the luthier for repair in between), one was four month later, the words
were changed a bit. Please guess which was ADA8000 and which was Micstasy:
http://vegri.net/come_shadow.wav
http://vegri.net/come_shape.wav
(7 MB each)
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:03:24PM +0000, Fons
Adriaensen wrote:
[ADA-8000]
the same happend here once.
[...complaints on reliability...]
Until now I had no problems with the outputs of the ADA8000.
Recently I made a recording (lute & singing), partly with ADA8000,
partly with RME Micstasy, both with the same Neumann mics, and I could
barely hear the difference...
other in 6U rack - just 1U space at the top and
bottom.
Three of them were fried. You only know when the damage
is done.
I've just replaced a broken capacitor in an ADA-8000's power supply
yesterday. > No idea if there's more to break, though. ;)
yes there is, I just discovered while preparing those files :-( If you
drive all outputs near maximum amplitude simultaneously (-1.5 dB FS),
the power supply seems to break down, and you hear buzzes (following the
peaks of your music). If I take down a few channels everything is fine.
All outputs are connected to the inputs of a Presonus HP60.
Cheers,
Giso
9:37 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 09:09:26PM +0200, Giso Grimm wrote:
Here you might listen, the same piece, same musicians,
same place, same
mics (Neumann KM184 pair), same positions, same lute (although it was at
the luthier for repair in between), one was four month later, the words
were changed a bit. Please guess which was ADA8000 and which was Micstasy:
http://vegri.net/come_shadow.wav
http://vegri.net/come_shape.wav
Given my 50:50 chance, I tend to claim "shadow" is the Behringer, but
maybe it's the slightly different reverb that's tricking me.
Let's collect more votes.
Cheers
--
mail: adi(a)thur.de http://adi.thur.de PGP/GPG: key via keyserver
10:28 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 09:09:26PM +0200, Giso Grimm wrote:
Here you might listen, the same piece, same musicians,
same place, same
mics (Neumann KM184 pair), same positions, same lute (although it was at
the luthier for repair in between), one was four month later, the words
were changed a bit. Please guess which was ADA8000 and which was Micstasy:
http://vegri.net/come_shadow.wav
http://vegri.net/come_shape.wav
(7 MB each)
I wonder, what is the link between preparing those files (which
should not involve anything except editing and maybe getting the
levels equal, i.e. no hardware involved at all), and that discovery ?
Anyway, this is still an 'easy' test, it doesn't stretch the
hardware to any limits at all.
The difference between the Behringer and the Micstasy is not
about 'audio quality' in the sense of frequency response,
distortion, etc. It would take really bad engineering to get
those so bad that it would matter.
It is all about technical qualities that *do* matter if things
get a bit more difficult: hum levels, noise levels, the ability
to change the mic gain while recording without any risk and by
a defined amount, resistance to RF and mains interference, being
able to supply stable phantom power on all inputs, etc. etc.
Try recording a contemporary music concert on location, with
percussion ranging from barely audible scratches to a bing bang,
and voices switching between whispering and screaming in a matter
of seconds. This sort of thing even takes a Micstasy or an Aphex
1778A to its limits. Your B. will fail miserably.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
> No idea if there's more to break, though.
;)
yes there is, I just discovered while preparing those files :-( If you
drive all outputs near maximum amplitude simultaneously (-1.5 dB FS),
the power supply seems to break down, and you hear buzzes (following the
peaks of your music). If I take down a few channels everything is fine.
10:52 p.m.
On 03/29/2012 10:28 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 09:09:26PM +0200, Giso Grimm
wrote:
no link at all, it just happened to be noticed then (only that I boosted
the levels to reach near fullscale), and I used to have other default
hdspmixer settings.
Here you might listen, the same piece, same
musicians, same place, same
mics (Neumann KM184 pair), same positions, same lute (although it was at
the luthier for repair in between), one was four month later, the words
were changed a bit. Please guess which was ADA8000 and which was Micstasy:
http://vegri.net/come_shadow.wav
http://vegri.net/come_shape.wav
(7 MB each)
I wonder, what is the link between preparing those files (which
should not involve anything except editing and maybe getting the
levels equal, i.e. no hardware involved at all), and that discovery ? > No idea if there's more to break, though.
;)
yes there is, I just discovered while preparing those files :-( If you
drive all outputs near maximum amplitude simultaneously (-1.5 dB FS),
the power supply seems to break down, and you hear buzzes (following the
peaks of your music). If I take down a few channels everything is fine. Anyway, this is still an 'easy' test, it
doesn't stretch the
hardware to any limits at all.
Sure, that is the reason why I cut the silence away - there you can hear
clear differences.
The difference between the Behringer and the Micstasy is not
about 'audio quality' in the sense of frequency response,
distortion, etc. It would take really bad engineering to get
those so bad that it would matter.
It is all about technical qualities that *do* matter if things
get a bit more difficult: hum levels, noise levels, the ability
to change the mic gain while recording without any risk and by
a defined amount, resistance to RF and mains interference, being
able to supply stable phantom power on all inputs, etc. etc.
I totally agree, my B.s drove me almost crazy several times. For
concerts (where I need 3 of them) I always have a spare one reachable.
Try recording a contemporary music concert on
location, with
percussion ranging from barely audible scratches to a bing bang,
and voices switching between whispering and screaming in a matter
of seconds. This sort of thing even takes a Micstasy or an Aphex
1778A to its limits. Your B. will fail miserably.
I did that as well a few weeks ago, and by B. failed :-)
Right now I don't have additional 4kEUR just for reliability, that's why
I still use my B.s (except when I can borrow a Micstasy), but I cannot
wait the day when I say good bye to them...
Giso
11:23 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:51:57PM +0200, Giso Grimm wrote:
Could be related/similar to another problem I discovered:
clock recovery from the ADAT input can become unstable at
times, it seems to depend on (digital) signal levels and
on which of the 8 channels are being used...
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
I wonder, what
is the link between preparing those files (which
should not involve anything except editing and maybe getting the
levels equal, i.e. no hardware involved at all), and that discovery ?
no link at all, it just happened to be noticed then (only that I boosted
the levels to reach near fullscale), and I used to have other default
hdspmixer settings.
4662
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
12 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Adrian Knoth -
Christoph Kuhr -
Fons Adriaensen -
Giso Grimm -
Phil T