On Jul 24, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Dave Robillard <drobilla(a)connect.carleton.ca> wrote: RTP MIDI has several ways to deal with this. For senders that know the semantics of what they are sending (like, say, Novation would if they were adding Wi-Fi to their keyboard line), the recovery journal syntax for SysEx lets the sender specify recovery data in a way that's suitable to the semantics, and this encoding lets a receiver figure out how to use the data to recovery. For senders that don't know the semantics of what they are sending (like a box with MIDI DIN jacks on one end and a WiFi antenna on the other), there are several options. One is to use the recovery journal encoding for SysEx that is a simple list of all commands for a type of SysEx, and rely on more frequent RTCP feedback from receiver to sender to keep the journal trimmed to a reasonable length. Alternatively, It's possible to split a MIDI cable into two RTP MIDI streams -- one TCP and one UDP -- and gate the SysEx onto the TCP stream. Most industry folks who need to do unusual things with MIDI don't start with SysEx. They start by making analogies of what they need to do with the standard MIDI command set, and repurposing. This is partially done to make sure DAWs can edit the data, and partially done to get the efficiency of running status over the wire. SysEx is used for secondary features. You can see this design philosophy in the Logic Control specification in Appendix B of: http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Logic7_DedicatedCntrlSurfaceInfo.pdf If I were rewriting an OSC application to use MIDI, with an eye towards good RTP MIDI loss behavior, I'd take this re-purposing approach ... it would be curious to see how Jazzmutant did it, since in their latest release of Lemur MIDI is now a full-fledged transport and not sent via OSC, if I read this web page correctly: http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_lastupdate.php I use Structured Audio in my own work, and Eric's Scheirer's language support design for MIDI has many good aspects. See: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~lazzaro/sa/book/control/midi/index.html In 2006 if I were designing a replacement language, I'd do the MIDI interface language design differently, given my experience using and implementing SAOL. But I don't consider MIDI's use of SAOL as hard to program in its present state, apart from some details of extend() and turnoff for handling NoteOff release activities. --- John Lazzaro http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~lazzaro lazzaro [at] cs [dot] berkeley [dot] edu ---