Joining LAD and LAU lists (And: more central instances in a "herding-cats" community are good)
23 Feb
2013
23 Feb
'13
9:54 p.m.
Hello both lists,
I see the reason for a non-discussion announcement list, LAA, but is it really necessary
to have twp lists?
I know there are several people who only subscribed to one list, but I don't know if
this is intentional or not.
Why not merge both. The immediate effect would be a stop at the cross posting just to
reach the whole community.
The mailinglists are from the same service, but I think in the end it would be more
convenient and better for everyone to have it all in one place.
Yes, I know some of you fear (mostly people in the dev list who do not read LAU) that they
will get unwanted mails. But as you can tell from experience topics like "why linux
audio sucks", "water as fuel" and other mega/nonsense/offtopic threads get
cross posted anyway.
And I know some of you think devs and users should be kept seperated. But be honest: Who
in the world is subscribed to a linux mailing list and could not stend the occasional
developers topic. If you want beginner-level support you most likely don't know how to
use lists :)
Just to be clear:
I am a friend of diversity and seemingly "redundant" applications and projects.
There cannot be enough sequencers, samplers, synthesizer, notation programs etc.
But when it comes to infrastructure and core building blocks I see no sense in seperation.
This is the strong point, compared to other operating/eco-systems. We may friendly compete
on a musical or feature basis, but there is no need to border a program just to make it
harder for the users to use the program of the "enemy" (from a Windows/OSX
POV).
In a Linux-Audio world of diversity and individuality, it is good to have central places
and instances. We can do whatever we want but unlike the closed source world we have no
need to create factions and standards that rival with each other, creating artificial
gaps.
The most successful of these instances is JACK itself. A centralized audio server, hailed
and praised by everyone.
And since I am writing this mail already, my personal wish list:
Please join the two blog/RSS planets as well (http://www.planet.linuxmusicians.com/,
http://linuxaudio.org/planet/ )
Merge Yoshimi and ZynAddSubFx, the JACK versions and experimental forks, the session
managers/protocols and a few audio distributions which have not enough manpower and that
can be used to boost the other distributions. "Joining/Merging" also can mean
for one side to step down honorable and retire the project.
Nils
http://www.nilsgey.de
23 Feb
23 Feb
10:36 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] Joining LAD and LAU lists (And: more central instances in a "herding-cats" community are good)
Hello Nils!
I can see your points, but I don't think them feasable, because the world
is, what it is. In my opinion joining the lists might mean,that people would
leave and create a new platform for developers.
there are only two lists to combine them all, that is not too much. And I
know a lot of topics, which are really well-placed at just one of them and
they really do stay there.
As to users joining the lists: I ave a feeling, that we get more "beginner
level" users. Hell, even when I joined back in 2002 or something, I still was
a beginner. Certainly no developer and I am not an audio developer. OK, I keep
up, because there might be things of interest, but I try to keep my own posts,
where they should be. :-)
I don't think, that it is a capsulation of people. It is just channeling of
forces. and I know, that we have people, who mostly -if not only - devlop and
those, who just use.
As to merging of standards/systems/protocols, I'd wish for that in more
areas, becuase it naturally focuses the strength of many in one place and
increases quality. But that is diversity. The way we have it, I think the most
feasable ideas grow and get accepted into more and more applications. It did
happen before and I'm sure will continue to happen.
You said, that newbies would not know how to really manage a mailing list -
possibly joining chats, forums, etc. That is a point of view. Many "really
new" newbies might. But I would always shy away from forums, hate chats and
don't get much out of feeds. It takes all sorts. :-)
Warmly and insubstantially yours :-)
Julien
----------------------------------------
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
10:52 p.m.
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 21:53:22 +0100
Nils Gey <ich(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
Unvisible to most people in here there was a brief discussion in IRC, plus the replies
here already, that made me realize some points I had not considered. I agree that two
lists are not that much and there are probably good reasons to keep them seperate. (But
crossposting is annoying anyway, in most cases.)
But my other points remain:
Just to be clear:
I am a friend of diversity and seemingly "redundant" applications and projects.
There cannot be enough sequencers, samplers, synthesizer, notation programs etc.
But when it comes to infrastructure and core building blocks I see no sense in
seperation. This is the strong point, compared to other operating/eco-systems. We may
friendly compete on a musical or feature basis, but there is no need to border a program
just to make it harder for the users to use the program of the "enemy" (from a
Windows/OSX POV).
In a Linux-Audio world of diversity and individuality, it is good to have central places
and instances. We can do whatever we want but unlike the closed source world we have no
need to create factions and standards that rival with each other, creating artificial
gaps.
The most successful of these instances is JACK itself. A centralized audio server, hailed
and praised by everyone.
And since I am writing this mail already, my personal wish list:
Please join the two blog/RSS planets as well (http://www.planet.linuxmusicians.com/,
http://linuxaudio.org/planet/ )
Merge Yoshimi and ZynAddSubFx, the JACK versions and experimental forks, the session
managers/protocols and a few audio distributions which have not enough manpower and that
can be used to boost the other distributions. "Joining/Merging" also can mean
for one side to step down honorable and retire the project.
24 Feb
24 Feb
12:33 a.m.
On Sat, 2013-02-23 at 21:53 +0100, Nils Gey wrote:
Hello both lists,
I see the reason for a non-discussion announcement list, LAA, but is it really necessary
to have twp lists?
I know there are several people who only subscribed to one list, but I don't know if
this is intentional or not.
It is very deliberate in my case.
Why not merge both.
Because this place is noisy enough as it is even when it's theoretically
restricted to actual development issues.
No, no, no, a billion times NO.
-dr
2:06 p.m.
On 02/23/2013 09:53 PM, Nils Gey wrote:
Please join the two blog/RSS planets as well
(http://www.planet.linuxmusicians.com/,http://linuxaudio.org/planet/ )
I think this
is a bad idea, both communities differ and the feeds they
monitor are hence slightly different too. Linux audio is such a niche,
we should be happy to have multiple planets.
Merge Yoshimi and ZynAddSubFx,
I can't code
and only support and cater Mark as much as possible. But
even that is hard as I know so little about the internals of Yoshimi and
I have little time to maintain it.
and a few audio distributions which have not enough
manpower and that can be used to boost the other distributions.
Now there you got a
good point. But maintaining an audio distribution is
usually born from two points of view: providing something useful for
end-users or as a means to display ones amazing ability to create a new
distro. And those views are incompatible which has become painfully
clear the last few months on LinuxMusicians.com.
So I won't see it happening as long as the latter point of view still
spawns new distros and its maintainers are simply unwilling to cooperate.
Jeremy
4286
days inactive
4287
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
5 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Dave Phillips -
David Robillard -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Julien Claassen -
Nils Gey