Me too. I am still playing around with ideas, but I never find the time to really implement them. I am thinking there should be different representation of the graph, that you can switch between. Two ideas I have been thinking of: 1) A matrix like connection view, rows are output-ports, collums are input-ports Very useful when you look at it port-centrically. You see all the connections of a single port at once. 2)Some kind of graph layout algorithm. More like pd, but maybe the connections on the side. Useful for looking at the signal path through multiple modules/jack-clients. There are some OS libraries/apps and a lot of literature for this. But I think most of it is too heavy for a patchbay. A complicated jack-graph is _very_ simple for program meant for 1000+vertex graph layout. Luke Yelavich wrote: That is not what is being discussed though. The patch-representation model of qjackctl is pretty much useless (unreadable) for anything beyond connecting an application to the pcm. Although it _is_ a great app, it is a bad patchbay gui. I regularly use a session with: 10 channel pcm, 8 channels fluidsynth 2 channels hydrogen drum machine 16 channels ardour 2 channels rosegarden (only used for sequencing, but it still connects it self) When I finished routing, I see a blur between input and output ports in qjackctl. Gerard -- electronic & acoustic musics-- http://www.xs4all.nl/~gml