Linux-audio-user March 2004

linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org

138 participants
168 discussions

Re: [linux-audio-user] Beginner sampler questions

by davidrclark＠earthlink.net

Tim Hall wrote: > The difference is that a > synth that uses samples uses relatively short bursts of sound, mostly the > attack portion, that the ear uses to differentiate instruments and various > loop portions, the difference is made up with synthesised sound. > This kind of thing exists in soundfonts, usable by fluidsynth and editable > with smurf/swami (in theory) The term "wave table" refers to looking up the sequence of values in a table or an array, not where the samples came from nor how they were created. A wave table synth is a type of sampler synth. There is no requirement that the violin begin with a sample of the attack of a real violin, then transform into an oscillator. This could be done, and the values could be stored in a table, subsequently played out a wave table synth. But this doesn't determine that such a synth has the name "wave table synth." One can record knee slaps and put them into a soundfont, and then play them out their SB Live! card with no synthesis anywhere in this process. Longer notes of extended samples can be created by looping back through the sample. One doesn't need to resort to synthesized sound for the remainder of a note, yet still legitimately refer to their synth as a "wave table synth." Chris wrote: > a sampler accomplishes basically the same > thing as a wavetable synth -- it uses sound samples to generate > tones, doing frequency shifting and interpolation as necessary. I would recommend considering a wavetable synth to be a type of sampler synth. > And as I understand it, the main difference between a sampler and > a wavetable synth is the lack of constraints on the samples used > -- with a sampler, anything at all could be a perfectly good > sample, including samples of almost arbitrary duration (and thus > size). This is not really correct, but an implementation detail. ALL sampler synths, including wavetable synths, have limitations on the samples. Now sometimes you'll see marketingspeak: "Limited only by the capabilities of your machine." There may be no hard- coded limits, but there are indeed limits. > But that brings my > first question -- if you don't own/play the instruments in question, > where do you get the samples? I've done a lot of web searching, > and found tons of drum loops and bass lines that are two measures > long and so forth, but don't find much in the way of e.g. individual > notes on basses. When someone asks "Where does one obtain samples," many immediately advise the questioner to go to the many sample libraries which exist, sample CD's, sample loops, the Internet sources, etc. One can also record one's own samples. One can also simulate instruments through physical modelling. One can also record one's own samples of *whatever can be sent through the audio path*. One can mix samples, including individual notes. For masochists, one can type in a table of values, convert this to an audio format, then use that as samples. One can "rip" them off CD's, videotapes, radio broadcasts (the legality of which depends on the source and the use of the material). There are *many* sources of samples. The main limitation is the composer's imagination. A simple example: Record yourself humming into a mic. Go into a WAV editor and give this a guitar envelope. If you can, build an SF2 font. Now play some guitar melody. Send it through an effects processor. Those who have never done anything like this will learn a lot. Now repeat with some other sustained sound... In some wave editors you can keep just the envelope. So take a spoon and tap on something. Keep this envelope and apply it to your humming or other sustained sound. Rip a track of a CD and isolate one sound that you really like that is a solo part, and edit it down to one second. Apply the envelope to this. Build a font and play something. (Specimen by Pete Bessman can be used to do this sort of thing without having to build fonts.) > you're gonna be > spending hours and hours trying to find samples that work. In my opinion, this is always true for great music. You can either spend years learning how to play an instrument, or you can spend years learning how to sythesize, record, or manipulate samples. Otherwise your stuff sounds like everybody else's and/or you begin to repeat yourself.

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] what's the best option here? / SosPubs article

by Kent, Gary

Steve, Sorry to be a pest, but does the Hammerfall Lite fall right into the box on Linux? If I'm seeing right there is not the possibility with this card to have playback without a computer since it is nothing but optical ports, with no 1/8" or 1/4" jacks? This Lite card is what I have been leaning towards but want to be really sure about it because I am researching a whole new setup based around a good optical card. Just out of curiosity, what preamps and such do you interface to this card with? Mark Knecht: You said that you didn't use the Lite card much under Linux but that it worked ok, and sorry to be a pest here, but were there deficiencies somewhere with this card that caused you to yank it out? >> I also own a Hammerfall Light. It worked under Linux, but I didn;t use it much. Some time ago I removed it and it's sitting on my desk begging for a machine to go into. That wouldn't be a sales offer, would it? ;>) Many thanks again, gk

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] snd-hdsp+cardbus=distortion -- the saga continues (cardbus driver=culprit?)

by ico＠fuse.net

Hi all, NOTE: I am cc-ing this to the kernel list in hope someone there might have a better insight in this. For the kernel people who intend to respond to this, I would greatly appreciate it if you could CC me, as I am not subscribed to the kernel list. Summary: snd-hdsp (RME Multiface cardbus pro-audio soundcard) works in Linux but the sound is trashed (distorted). In Windows on the same notebook, everything works fine. The problem has been now reported on 2 completely different notebooks (Acer 1400 with 02 cardbus and my eMachines m6805 with ENE CB1410 cardbus controller). I suspect at this point that the culprit is most likely the cardbus driver (yenta_socket in my case). --------------------- After digging some more I am absolutely confident that my problem with the hdsp_multiface+laptop(cardbus) is definitely not only similar but identical to the problem Tim Blechmann reported in January. The scary part is that my laptop is completely different brandname than his and uses entirely different cardbus (IIRC he has Acer 1400 with the O2 cardbus; I have eMachines m6807 with ENE CB1410 cardbus). I think that this now has to have something to do with the current state of the kernel cardbus drivers (pcmcia-cs has not been updated since December so I would assume that they are no better than the ones that are found in the kernel) and possibly the updated hdsp driver (although not entirely sure on this last one). Here's the current scoop on the problem: Windows XP -- stuff works great, everything as expected. The only thing is that when the computer goes to standby/hibernate, upon resuming the sound is all distorted (just like Tim reported it -- slower, full of artifacts, but you can still discern the original sound's content); this most likely has to do with the crappy BIOS my notebook has (esp. in respect to the ACPI and APIC -- DSDT table is trashed etc.). After distortion occurs, overclocking the computer seems to speed the sound up bringing it closer to the desired playback speed but the artifacts remain. Miller Puckette suggested that perhaps the hdsp is not getting proper clock info from the CPU, something that I have not investigated as of yet as I do not currently have access to an external equipment that would provide Word Clock functionality. Although this also sounds a bit weird as the soundcard works just fine upon first boot (prior to suspending the computer). No matter how many times I reconnect the card and/or mess with it before suspending the computer, everything continues to work as expected. Linux: Mandrake Community 10.0 Kernel 2.6.3 Plenty of RAM and other junk IRQ for cardbus and hdsp is shared on 11 (them sharing the same irq IIRC should be normal behavior) Alsa 1.0.2 and 1.0.3 tested (1.0.2 came with the system, 1.0.3 compiled from source) Latest Jack and alsaplayer packages compiled from source Hw:0 onboard via82xx Hw:1 snd-hdsp ACPI and APIC are disabled due to BIOS issues with the laptop and because even with the pci=noacpi flag in lilo the system still freezes when inserting cardbus. I saw somewhere a kernel patch that would enable use of cardbus with a limited acpi presence (pci=noacpi) but have not tried using it just yet mainly since presence of acpi should not have any positive bearing on resolving this issue (if anything, it would make it even worse due to IRQ shuffling). Modprobing goes without a hitch, pcmcia service automatically starts, the cardbus interface using yenta_socket driver. Snd-hdsp also works without a hitch and configuring the soundcard is all ok (hdsploader, hdspconf, hdspmixer all check-out fine). aplay D plughw:1 (or plughw:hw:1 forget the exact syntax currently booted into Windoze) <soundfile> plays the sound distorted similarly like in Windows after resume. Jackd d alsa d hw:1 with various flags and sampling rates of either 44100 or 48000 works without any dropouts. Just like with Tim, no distortion is coming through until the sound is played. During the sound playback, the distortion is identical to the one during the playback without jackd. Connecting simple clients like jack_metro plays stuff, but distorted. Alsaplayer when connected via jackd also works but again distorted. I have to put the playback at 200% speed to get the right tempo of the song but the sound of the songs singer is now very high-pitched (chipmunk?). Distortion persists no matter what. Reconnecting cardbus and all that works but the distorted sound persists. Hdspmixer shows the sound levels as expected and they reflect the fact that the sound is being played slower than it should be and that it is distorted. Messing with hdspconf during playback makes no difference. Adjusting the sampling rate though does alter the sound of distortion when playing (just like in Tims case), but does not alleviate it. /var/log/syslog lists no complaints and/or problems. (I will check more thoroughly for the boot-time stuff). I am aware of the fact that the BIOS is somewhat trashed (manufacturers fault) but not to the point where machine does not behave normally, esp. in Windows. Some have suggested switching distros, but my understanding is that Tim was running gentoo and I am running Mandrake and were both having the same problem Tim, I believe also used 2.4 kernel without success, as well as pre-1.0 Alsa drivers. --------------------------------------- TODO: 1) provide detailed lspci 2) thoroughly check /var/log/syslog for anything suspicious 3) try pcmcia-cs (most likely wont work as Tim already tried that and it made no difference on his laptop, also the package wasnt updated since Dec.) 4) try playback with an external Word Clock source 5) provide downloadable examples of the distorted sounds 6) Pester alsa-dev, lau, and kernel/pcmcia people to death begging for help :-) 7) Pester eMachines to update BIOS (I may retire before this one happens, though) 8) Something else? I would appreciate any help with this one especially now that we know that the problem is not related to one particular notebook/cardbus controller I will provide additional info as soon as I get home (sometime early next week). Many thanks! Best wishes, Ivica Ico Bukvic, composer & multimedia sculptor http://meowing.ccm.uc.edu/~ico/ ico(a)fuse.net

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] what's the best option here? / SosPubs article

by Kent, Gary

Thanks for this valuable input. So...if the HDSP9652 is not the best ADAT card available for Linux, would the Digi9636 (the HammerFall Lite) be a better option? I found a discussion of this very thing from earlier in the month, but am wondering why the AP2496 limits your options for real-time recording work? The AP2496 has no optical inputs and the DiO 2496 from M-Audio seems to be the only card they have that does have them, and that is only 2 X 4 in/out. I don't seem to have many options in choosing ADAT cards here. Mark Knecht from earlier March 8th post: >> Don't get the stand alone HDSP9652 or HDSP9636 until you make sure the Linux drivers will do what you need. You had said this on a previous post and I was wondering what you meant by stand alone. Which RME card seems to work the best for recording work? I'm looking at that new M-Audio Octane as a possibility. Am I correct in that the RME cards have the converters on them, or are the converters on the preamp/optical out interface? Thanks for bearing with me on this, gk

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] what's the best option here? / SosPubs article

by Kent, Gary

Hi: Last nite I read that article in SosPubs about Linux. Most folks in that article seemed to be using the RME HDSP 9652. I have been looking at the MultiFace for awhile, but am starting to feel that the best option would be to sink my money into some of the preamp/ADAT optical out outboard gear that is starting to come on the scene such as the M-Audio Octane, Tango24, or Behringher ADA8000 that feature lots of preamps w/ ADAT optical outputs, and just using the HDSP9652 as a really nice signal router into my Linux box. Would anyone be willing to share with me the pros and cons of this approach? Up until now I have been thinking about sinking all of my money into the MultiFace or a really high-priced audio card with minimal outboard. Now I'm starting to think just the opposite that just using a bare minimum optical card w/ decent converters and putting my money into outboard would maybe be the best way. Any good advice on this, and if so, any other cards I should consider? Thanks very much, gk

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] Batch volume normalization in directory of speech recordings

by Robert Rozman

Hi, I have whole directory of speech recordings with different volume levels. I'm newbie to Linux and wonder what apps are there to do batch volume normalization/scaling ? Thanks, Robert.

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] Stuttering via HDSP, Cardbus, Multiface? More Info

by Timothy Polashek

It is great to see others have experienced this problem, and are trying to find a solution! The jitter/granular distortion that Tim (the other Tim!), Ico, and Derek describe seems to match exactly what I am experiencing, however I think my hardware is completely different. I wanted to post information about my current state for the record before I start experimenting with acpi and all the other suggestions. I am only on the CCRMA and LAU list, so feel free to forward this info to other lists, such as alsa or whatever. Thanks! -Tim ---------------------- I am running stock model ACER TavelMate254, which actually seems like a decent quality machine: TM254ELCi, LX.T3206.187 Processor Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 2.80GHz Memory 512MB Hard Drive 40GB Optical Drive CD-RW/DVD combo TFT Display 15.0" XGA Graphics Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 ---------------------- I am running the latest PlanetCCRMA kernel and their alsa flavors. ---------------------- here is my lspci output: 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 82852/855GM Host Bridge (rev 02) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Memory at <unassigned> (32-bit, prefetchable) Capabilities: <available only to root> 00:00.1 System peripheral: Intel Corp. 855GM/GME GMCH Memory I/O Control Registers (rev 02) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 00:00.3 System peripheral: Intel Corp. 855GM/GME GMCH Configuration Process Registers (rev 02) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [VGA]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 5 Memory at e8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=128M] Memory at e0000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=512K] I/O ports at 1800 [size=8] Capabilities: <available only to root> 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corp. 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device (rev 02) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: fast devsel Memory at f0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=128M] Memory at e0080000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=512K] Capabilities: <available only to root> 00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #1 (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 5 I/O ports at 1820 [size=32] 00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #2 (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 11 I/O ports at 1840 [size=32] 00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #3 (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 4 I/O ports at 1860 [size=32] 00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 03) (prog-if 20 [EHCI]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 10 Memory at e0100000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=1K] Capabilities: <available only to root> 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 82801BAM/CAM PCI Bridge (rev 83) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Bus: primary=00, secondary=02, subordinate=02, sec-latency=64 I/O behind bridge: 00003000-00003fff Memory behind bridge: e0200000-e02fffff Prefetchable memory behind bridge: e0500000-e05fffff 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82801DBM LPC Interface Controller (rev 03) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0 00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82801DBM (ICH4) Ultra ATA Storage Controller (rev 03) (prog-if 8a [Master SecP PriP]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 4 I/O ports at <unassigned> I/O ports at <unassigned> I/O ports at <unassigned> I/O ports at <unassigned> I/O ports at 1810 [size=16] Memory at 20000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=1K] 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corp. 82801DB/DBM (ICH4) SMBus Controller (rev 03) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 10 I/O ports at 1880 [size=32] 00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 03) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 10 I/O ports at 1c00 [size=256] I/O ports at 18c0 [size=64] Memory at e0100c00 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=512] Memory at e0100800 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256] Capabilities: <available only to root> 00:1f.6 Modem: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [Generic]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0038 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 10 I/O ports at 2400 [size=256] I/O ports at 2000 [size=128] Capabilities: <available only to root> 02:04.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1250 PC card Cardbus Controller (rev 01) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 10 Memory at 20001000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Bus: primary=02, secondary=03, subordinate=03, sec-latency=176 Memory window 0: 20400000-207ff000 (prefetchable) Memory window 1: 20800000-20bff000 (prefetchable) I/O window 0: 00004000-000040ff I/O window 1: 00004400-000044ff 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 02:04.1 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1250 PC card Cardbus Controller (rev 01) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 10 Memory at 20002000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Bus: primary=02, secondary=04, subordinate=04, sec-latency=176 Memory window 0: 20c00000-20fff000 (prefetchable) Memory window 1: 21000000-213ff000 (prefetchable) I/O window 0: 00004800-000048ff I/O window 1: 00004c00-00004cff 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 02:05.0 Network controller: Harris Semiconductor: Unknown device 3872 (rev 01) Subsystem: AMBIT Microsystem Corp.: Unknown device 0200 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 Memory at e0500000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: <available only to root> 02:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI]: Unknown device 0039 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 I/O ports at 3000 [size=256] Memory at e0200000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256] Expansion ROM at <unassigned> [disabled] [size=64K] Capabilities: <available only to root> 03:00.0 Multimedia audio controller: Xilinx Corporation RME Hammerfall DSP (rev 0b) Flags: bus master, stepping, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 10 Memory at 20800000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] ---------------------- proc / interrupts. CPU0 0: 747357 XT-PIC timer 1: 699 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 4: 0 XT-PIC usb-uhci 5: 0 XT-PIC usb-uhci 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 9 XT-PIC acpi 10: 0 XT-PIC ehci_hcd, Texas Instruments PCI1250 PC card Cardbus Controller, Texas Instruments PCI1250 PC card Cardbus Controller (#2), hdsp 11: 106 XT-PIC usb-uhci, eth0 12: 9397 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 21038 XT-PIC ide0 15: 11051 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 ERR: 0

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] Beginner sampler questions

by Chris Metzler

Hi. I've been playing guitar for 7 years or so, and using linux in one way or another for about the same amount of time; but only this past year have I started playing around with what I can do musically with my linux box. One of the things I've recently learned about is samplers. As I understand it at this point (and I'm hoping someone will set me straight if I'm wrong), a sampler accomplishes basically the same thing as a wavetable synth -- it uses sound samples to generate tones, doing frequency shifting and interpolation as necessary. And as I understand it, the main difference between a sampler and a wavetable synth is the lack of constraints on the samples used -- with a sampler, anything at all could be a perfectly good sample, including samples of almost arbitrary duration (and thus size). One of the most obvious uses I can see for a sampler would be to use it to provide instrumentation that the user doesn't know how to play. For instance, if I wanted to record myself on guitar with a piano accompaniment, I could use a sequencer to write the piano line and generate it through a sampler. But that brings my first question -- if you don't own/play the instruments in question, where do you get the samples? I've done a lot of web searching, and found tons of drum loops and bass lines that are two measures long and so forth, but don't find much in the way of e.g. individual notes on basses. And I wonder about how people use the extended samples I find. It seems kinda constraining, to be stuck with a melody/harmony line given to you by whatever someone sampled. Of course, there are tons and tons of samples available; but then, in order to express the music you're hearing in your head, you're gonna be spending hours and hours trying to find samples that work. Am I missing some obvious things here? How do people use samplers, for the most part? Thanks for dealing with my beginner-type questions. -c -- Chris Metzler cmetzler(a)speakeasy.snip-me.net (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] WaveTerminal U24

by sigir

I'm looking for an OmniStudio USB (see other message). But it doesn't have S/PDIF. I think I can add the ESI WaveTerminal U24 : http://www.esi-pro.com/viewProduct.php?pid=10&page=1 I see 3 WaveTerminal on http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php3?vendor=vendor-Ego_Sys#matrix Do you know if it works with Linux? (Debian) Thank you. -- sigir

20 years, 7 months

[linux-audio-user] OmniStudio USB

by sigir

On http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php3?vendor=vendor-MAudio#matrix there is the USB Audio Quattro, but the USB Audio Omni Studio is "untested". On M-Audio site, they said that it's the same as Quattro with some features more. Do you know if OmniStudio USB works with Linux? (Debian) Thank you -- sigir

20 years, 7 months

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Linux-audio-user March 2004