31 Aug
2014
31 Aug
'14
9:20 p.m.
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2014, Moshe Werner wrote:
all the recent talk about less audio interfaces being supported for Linux
Interesting, I didn't know this. Can you send a link to it?
got me
thinking.
First I want to mention that I'm neither a programmer nor an electrical
engineer, but
what if we could develop our own AI?
This is not the first time for this idea. There are one or two people
working on it. The idea that seems to be the best is an ethernet connected
AI because this seems to be the digital interface that stays around and is
best supported. The idea is to use an arm based board with a netjack master
and built in audio IF. The only project I know of is to at first provide
stereo i/o as a proof of concept.
I imagine a modular approach with options to customize and add different
But ADAT is one of the most important and widespread interfaces, so we
can't just ignore it
features like
building blocks.
One user needs a lot of preamps, the other works mostly over ADAT or
Madi...
A few comments about ADAT, while the format of the messages is well known,
it is not open. Licencing may be a problem. True MADI uses obsolete HW.
There are a number of audio over ethernet protocols with various openness
or not.
Just a quick note about DIY HW. It is not generally cheaper than buying
the same capability made by someone else. There are premade solutions out
there, but they are not in the range of a lot of linux musicians.
I didn't say cheaper. I am willing to pay for decent hardware, and also
software. I think I've donated more money to the Ardour project than I paid
for Protools (I admit, I've also got a Mac running Protools, there are
certain paying customers that still insist on that).
DIY gives you a certain amount of freedom, and quite some satisfaction. I'm
just about to finish a Gyraf G7 tube mic, which was a lot of fun building.
But really my point is not so much to build the AI by myself, but to
support a project that reflects the ideology that we stand behind.
I did pay a lot for my hardware, I would be much happier to pay it to
someone that invests in our community and also gives real support for
paying customers.
For now RME are the closest to this description but who knows for how long.
We could even implement a DSP chip with LV2 effects to lessen the CPU
I can see your point, but I don't totally agree. Cost is one matter but
IMHO the main factor of frustration is the lack of support, and generally
cold shoulder, we as a community get.
What will happen if RME decides do drop the support for Linux (whats left
of it)? How long can we chase after laptops with express cards just to run
the RME box.
Another thing we're missing is the diversity that exists in the "pro"
world.
If RME would support their whole range of products under Linux that would
be slightly different, but today we're pretty much bound to a handful of
interfaces.
Now someone that has interest in Linux audio will be on the run at least
when he finds out that his dear AI is not supported under Linux. (Happened
to all my audio engineer buddies that saw Ardour, got excited about the
idea, then asked if it will work with "name your favorite AI", I said not
yet, that's it...)
load.
Almost any arm based board would be able to add some DSP capabilities. It
may also be possible to use a DSP board instead of an arm board, but the
learning curve for programing it may be higher... like having a running up
to date linux kernel and jackd running on it for example.
Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but it would solve one of the
biggest problems for
Linux audio musicians.
The biggest limit to audio interfaces in basement studio is getting over
the fact that a good audio interface is going to cost more than the
computer it works with. This is first of all a psycological problem not
technical.
Most of us are looking for those ~$500 solutions. That is, we expect to
get 4 to 8 i/os with mic pres for $500 or so. That is why ADAT looks good
to us. The Audio Science 8 i/o PCIe card is just over $1k but just has line
in (my D66 is line level too BTW) so then you need mic pres. Most of us
have supplied these with a mixer of some sort.
Really, an audio interface is two parts, The adc/dac, and the preamps. It
is easy enough to do the line level input, even balanced.
My system consists of a 32 channel inline console->Alesis HDR24x AD->RME
hdsp9652 so tell me about it :)
Going one step up, there are a lot of mic preamps around that provide a
lot more control than a mixer or 8 input audio IF. Most of them have s/pdif
or aes3 out. So maybe an audio interface that provides that makes more
sense. However, the reason the generic mic pres work for most people is
that they are using a set of dynamic mics with a few condeser mics
(probably low end like mine) and the pre doesn't matter as much as it might
with a ribbon mic for example.
So the problem is less technical than it might seem. (on the technical
end, using netjack as an audio interface does use more CPU than the same
alsa card used locally) To make such a project worth while it needs to have
a wide appeal, this means cheap... I can't think of any other way to put
it. The goal ends up being 8 i/os with 8 mic pre for around $500. Having
something more stable and lower latency than USB2 might give you another
$200 (maybe more) to play with, but writing OSx/win drivers would give a
lot more room (netjack does this OOTB).
Totally agree, we're witnessing genius on a daily basis in this list, so I
don't see a technical problem at all.
But I think the goal would be to bring something real new to the world,
like a "stackable" or modular interface that every user could more or less
configure using standard building blocks. That would cater the whole range
of users in our community.
The problem is that I'm neither a programmer nor a hardware designer, I'm a
user, so I'm just thinking out loud.
Best
Moshe