11 May
2010
11 May
'10
9:06 a.m.
Hartmut Noack wrote:
Helps explain why Ubuntu/KUbuntu 10 is essentially useless. It's even
useless for ordinary people, thanks to Ubuntu's evident plan to develop
a desktop OS specialized for social media.
BTW, a friend of mine tried removing the stupid Ubuntu social media app
from Lucid. (It still remains even if you remove all of the things it
supposedly monitors.) He reports that removing it also removed almost
the entire desktop and left what remained unusable.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
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Am 10.05.2010 22:20, schrieb fons(a)kokkinizita.net:
This I argee absolutely. PA has the potential to solve all the trouble
with Linux Audio on the desktop for good.
Hmmm, I doubt that. It is just another big problem all its own. I never
needed PA installed to do something simple like play an MP3 ...
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 08:31:46PM +0200, Hartmut
Noack wrote:
And distro-vendors do not have such a priority either. But
audio-production is a standard-feature for Mac and Windows so in my
humble oppinion: Linux will never be considered a mature universal
usable operating system if it does not support audio-production. To set
up any standard-Linux for that task is done in a matter of minutes today
and it makes my stomach turn seeing that distributors are not giving
even that little effort to make it possible. A little post-install
script for a jack-package that sets up group audio and limits.conf.
Ubuntu actually tries to do that but fails to put the user into group
audio and to set memlock. And if there would be a graphical, well
documented tool easy to be found and easy to operate tool to setup PA,
everything could become much much easier and the hatred would fade...
I do not say and I find it hard to imagine, that
Lennart does not know
about pro-audio needs. But he does not seem to give it any particular
high priority.
Which is logical, as it is not his priority. But neither does he
ignore pro-audio. But facts
are facts: most pro-audio people hate PA.
And this hatred:
1) cannot exist whithout any reason
2) is harmfull and should be stopped by eliminating these reasons.
As one who has
commented on PA before I may be allowed to say this:
I do *not* hate PA. I just don't need it, since I do not want any
'desktop' sounds on my machines, and I expect to be able to set up
a system without PA just as I can set up one without CUPS, or without
RAID, or replace Sendmail by Postfix, or in general choose whatever
subsystems I actually need.
What I *do* hate is that this has become near impossible with major
distros, since the way they set up 'a destop system' makes almost
everything depend on everything else, regardless of such dependencies
being real or not. A mail program is still fully functional even if
it doesn't start singing whenever a message arrives, and it should be
installable without any dependency on anything audio.
That this is not the case is not Lennart's fault. That he actually
seems to advocate this type of distro policies is another matter,
I can't explain it on rational grounds, and it is the main reason
behind my negative reactions towards him at some time.
Apart from that, *if* you want 'desktop sound' then PA is probably
the best thing since sliced bread. I was *very*
surprised to learn
that PA at the moment does not have a native API, at least not one
Lennart would want to advocate. PA would gain a lot of appeal by
providing that.
Regarding user ignorance of PA's qualities and configuration options,
that is partly the result of what the 'desktop movement' aims to
provide. If everything is designed to be automatic and zeroconf
then the logical result will be ignorant users.
Again I agree from the heart.
I filed a bug report in ubuntus launchpad some years ago, complaining,
that startup-messages are not displayed anymore but only a MacOSXish
progress-animation.
The Ubuntu-people answered that "thousands of users" had complained
about "scary messages scrolling by at startup". So they removed them.