25 May
2015
25 May
'15
11:23 p.m.
I am also looking to have a conversation about recording hardware, but
not quite the same as the PCI one.
Short story:
If I wanted to have a combination of two separate devices,
analog->ADAT unit and ADAT->Linux@computer, what would I buy?
Long story:
The way that I did quality recordings so far:
- use a quality preamp from mic to S/PDIF optical
- use a USB soundcard with (under Linux) working S/PDIF in
- jackd of course
- depending on hardware there might be a separate piece in front that
converts symmetric microphone level to line out, but right now my
first thing does both mic level and line level well
I really like how this is separating out the [analog part, A/D
converter] and the [thing that needs a Linux driver]. Now I can
change one or the other and don't get utter breakdown on software
changes. I have hardware pieces for which this works great... ish
except for some USB unreliability.
Now, the careful observer will notice that this is limited to 2
channels due to S/PDIF. While I could have more USB soundcards that
does not satisfy synchonization since the stupid things with S/PDIF
don't take world clocks. My attempts to link multiple jackds have
been, well I think everybody here knows that this exactly working
well.
So I want to get the concept of separating this out further. Now I
need:
- analog part is a few line in or mic level inputs to ADAT
- a "soundcard" that takes binary ADAT and gives me Linux-able input.
Ideally I would like this to be 24 bit capable (I don't need > 48
MHz but I'd like > 16 bit)
- once there I could add more sync ADAT takes a world clock
I wonder whether somebody has recommendations for these two parts.
Digital part with great Linux support, and what do I use for analog to
ADAT?
My computers still have native PCI, but... well to be honest PCI
sucks, USB sucks, Firewire is old. Is anything Thunderbolt out yet
that does ADAT to Thunderbolt with open source Linux drivers? Haha,
very funny. Can we make one?
Sorry for the long post. I hope the concept makes sense. I really
like this more modular setup that allows you to toss one thing at a
time and don't sit there with nothing on changes.
Martin
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Martin Cracauer <cracauer(a)cons.org> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/
26 May
26 May
12:10 a.m.
On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Martin Cracauer <cracauer(a)cons.org> wrote:
My computers still have native PCI, but... well to be honest PCI
sucks,
PCI doesn't suck. It is still the best place to put an audio interface.
USB sucks, Firewire is old. Is anything Thunderbolt
out yet
that does ADAT to Thunderbolt with open source Linux drivers?
I predict that Thunderbolt will die.
Anyway, there are dozens of PCI and USB interfaces that support ADAT and
are supported on Linux.
9:39 a.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
Hello,
On 25.05.2015 23:23, Martin Cracauer wrote:
I am also looking to have a conversation about
recording hardware, but
not quite the same as the PCI one.
Short story:
If I wanted to have a combination of two separate devices,
analog->ADAT unit and ADAT->Linux@computer, what would I buy?
for the A/D converter with ADAT something like Behringer ADA or
Focusrite Octopre could come to mind (or something expensive, ymmv).
I got an ada 8000 and it works well. i cannot say much about the
preamps in it as i'm exclusively using it for line in. a plus is
that the gain knobs work for line in too.
no idea about its currently available successor ada 8200 (that
possibly got better preamps).
hth,
tee
12:19 p.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
On Mon, 25 May 2015 17:23:13 -0400, Martin Cracauer wrote:
what do I use for analog to ADAT?
As several people from this mailing list I've got a Behringer ADA8000.
The power supply gets very hot, so it can't be mounted to a rack, at
least not without much space below and above the ADA's case. The
cost-benefit ratio is very good. Perhaps somebody has got experiences
with the successor ADA8200. IMO the Behringer ADA8000 is ok.
1:05 p.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
On 26/05/15 17:19, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 17:23:13 -0400, Martin Cracauer
wrote:
Best practice is to always have 1U above and below any piece of kit if
you have the space anyway. I always try to and if I can't I try and
judge the least heat generating/sensitive pieces of equipment to adjust
position.
I owned a ADA8000 for a few years. Agree they run very hot! Although
mine seemed to intermittently, rather than always. More strangely it
would sometimes start to output a high level pure noise a few minutes
after turning on (possibly frying capacitor noise, or that's what it
reminded me of from repairing VTRs with audio faults.) Turn it and on
again 10 minutes later and it would usually work fine again for a whole
session/day/whatever. I sold it about a year ago and as far as I know it
is still in use today, which slightly surprised me (I had thought it
must be on it's last legs and hadn't plugged it in since migrating from
a desktop to a laptop a couple of years previously.)
Your biggest problem (not you Ralf, but the OP Martin) is that you have
not mentioned your budget anywhere. Would be good to know if you want to
look at Behringer level products or RME/Apogee level products! ;-)
Dale.
what do I use for analog to ADAT?
As
several people from this mailing list I've got a Behringer ADA8000.
The power supply gets very hot, so it can't be mounted to a rack, at
least not without much space below and above the ADA's case. The
cost-benefit ratio is very good. Perhaps somebody has got experiences
with the successor ADA8200. IMO the Behringer ADA8000 is ok.
_______________________________________________ 
1:08 p.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
Am Montag, den 25.05.2015, 17:23 -0400 schrieb Martin Cracauer:
I wonder whether somebody has recommendations for
these two parts.
Digital part with great Linux support,
That's easy: Speaking about Linux-support I don't know anything better
than RME. I'm using an HDSP9652 for quite a while, now, and never had
any problems.
If you don't like PCI, there is also a successor with PCIe.
and what do I use for analog to ADAT?
My first
A/D-converter was a Behringer ADA8000, too. After buying the
RME my wallet was empty. :)
After all, the Behringer device is o.k. - just had some trouble with a
broken lightpipe-output (guess, they are using better ones in a later
revision). What I don't like is the missing WordClock Out/Through.
Keep in mind, they can only play 48000 Hz. But the HDSP sound great even
at 48kHz/24bit.
Surprisingly, the ADA8000 output seems to be a clone of the
48kHz-version of the RME Analogue Extension Boards ("AEB 4/8-O"), at
least they are using the same chips.
As I had a bit more money, I bought 2 Presonus DigiMax FS8, that doesn't
sound significantly better, but have some nice features like
96kHz-support, WordClock-Out, WordClock-In termination and
insert-channels.
I wouldn't bet, the ADA 8200 is better than the ADA 8000. In the past,
there have been some bad successors of good and surprisingly cheap
Behringer-hardware.
Greets!
Mitsch
29 May
29 May
10:37 p.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
Michael Jarosch wrote on Tue, May 26, 2015 at 01:08:30PM +0200:
I don't like buying Behringer branded equipment, at least not until
they reimburse me for some junk they sold me. A very hot power supply
inside the 19" unit is also a problem for me. I try to get lower
power units and don't want to spend huge amounts of rack spaces.
External PSU is fine with me.
I am looking at the ART OptoTube 8 like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231568593017?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p…
Anything good or bad to say about it? I know that they don't run the
tubes at high enough voltage to actually play the tube advantage. But
my 2-channel to S/PDIF Art ART unit works for me, I like it.
Any recommendation for a couple of output channels?
Martin
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Martin Cracauer <cracauer(a)cons.org> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/
Am Montag, den 25.05.2015, 17:23 -0400 schrieb Martin
Cracauer:
Thanks. Looks awesome.
I should explain myself a bit about this kind of general question. I
want to avoid settling for something that has Linux support-ish right
now but is shaky. I have a huge, I mean huge, stack of PCI soundcards
from 2 decades of messing with it that all kinda worked under Linux
and FreeBSD at some point, but there is always catches. To this day I
cannot use the S/PDIF in on my otherwise beloved Turtlebeach.
So the RME stuff works from Linux drivers that came out of usable
documentation and help from the vendor? Do they need a firmware
loader?
But now to the important followup questions:
So, these cards have multiple optical connectors. That means I can
just run as many ADAT A/D units as I like? Input and output? And all
of that will be visible as a single soundcard with many channels in a
single jack demon? Is that how it works? Without having to make
software bridges between multiple jack demons?
The thing is that I want 4 outputs, too. It seems that 19" units with
both in and out are rare, so I am aiming for an 8-port in and a 4-port
out in separate units. That would be all in the same jackd?
What happens if one of the units doesn't do world clock and you mix it
with world clocked units? How does that end up in the same jackd? Does
it?
I wonder whether somebody has recommendations for
these two parts.
Digital part with great Linux support,
That's easy: Speaking about Linux-support I don't know anything better
than RME. I'm using an HDSP9652 for quite a while, now, and never had
any problems.
If you don't like PCI, there is also a successor with PCIe. and what do I
use for analog to ADAT?
My first A/D-converter was a Behringer ADA8000, too. After
buying the
RME my wallet was empty. :)
After all, the Behringer device is o.k. - just had some trouble with a
broken lightpipe-output (guess, they are using better ones in a later
revision). What I don't like is the missing WordClock Out/Through.
Keep in mind, they can only play 48000 Hz. But the HDSP sound great even
at 48kHz/24bit.
Surprisingly, the ADA8000 output seems to be a clone of the
48kHz-version of the RME Analogue Extension Boards ("AEB 4/8-O"), at
least they are using the same chips.
11:34 p.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
On Fri, 29 May 2015 16:37:05 -0400, Martin Cracauer wrote:
Michael Jarosch wrote on Tue, May 26, 2015 at
01:08:30PM +0200:
It's said that they all should work perfectly.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ arecord -l
**** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices ****
card 0: HDSPMx579bcc [RME AIO_579bcc], device 0: RME AIO [RME AIO]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: EWX2496 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712
multi] Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 2: EWX2496_1 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712
multi] Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
I bought my RME HDSPe AIO 4 years ago and today I still don't know how
to get access to more than the first 2 ADAT channels by jackd.
If you don't like PCI, there is also a
successor with PCIe.
So the RME stuff works from Linux drivers that came out of
usable
documentation and help from the vendor?
30 May
30 May
2:15 a.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
Am Freitag, den 29.05.2015, 23:34 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>> If you don't like PCI, there is also a
successor with PCIe.
>So the RME stuff works from Linux drivers that came out of usable
>documentation and help from the vendor?
Not *all* the RME stuff, but most of them.
And yes: The drivers that ALSA marks as "supported" are created in
collaboration with RME.
But I read the ALSA-homepage again and the modern stuff is not as well
supported as the classic-PCI was.
In fact, ALSA lists 2 PCIe devices to work with linux but the successor
of my beloved HDSP 9652 doesn't. My fault, sorry!
It's said that they all should work perfectly.
Actually, neither ALSA nor RME guarantees full Linux support for the
HDSPe AIO. It's not even mentioned in
http://alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Vendor-RME
so I'm surprised, you got it working, partly.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ arecord -l
**** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices ****
card 0: HDSPMx579bcc [RME AIO_579bcc], device 0: RME AIO [RME AIO]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: EWX2496 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712
multi] Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 2: EWX2496_1 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712
multi] Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
I bought my RME HDSPe AIO 4 years ago and today I still don't know how
to get access to more than the first 2 ADAT channels by jackd.
You mean 2 channels or 2*8 ADAT-channels?
Greets!
Mitsch
2:31 a.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
Ralf Mardorf wrote on Fri, May 29, 2015 at 11:34:43PM +0200:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 16:37:05 -0400, Martin Cracauer
wrote:
Can you clarify what these three devices represent? The first one is
for all the optical ADAT in, the other two for other units on the
card?
Martin
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Martin Cracauer <cracauer(a)cons.org> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/
Michael Jarosch wrote on Tue, May 26, 2015 at
01:08:30PM +0200:
It's said that they all should work perfectly.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ arecord -l
**** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices ****
card 0: HDSPMx579bcc [RME AIO_579bcc], device 0: RME AIO [RME AIO]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: EWX2496 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712
multi] Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 2: EWX2496_1 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712
multi] Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 If you don't like PCI, there is also a
successor with PCIe.
So the RME stuff works from Linux drivers that came out of
usable
documentation and help from the vendor?
11 Sep
11 Sep
9:49 p.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
Thanks, everybody. Your help with the ADAT things is greatly
appreciated. I have a RME HDSP 9652 and a PreSonus Digimax LT 8. So
far so good.
I would like to add outputs (the LT8 is 8x input only). I know that
the Behringer ADA8000 is a good, working choice. I try to avoid
Behringer and the power consumption and heat is a concern for me since
I have limited rackspace. I would also prefer to have proper BNC in
and through for world clock.
Alternatives seem slim, so I have a question about the Focusrite
Saffire PRO 56. I see a lot of references that say that this unit
must be configured from their own Windows software. Is that actually
the case? If I just use it from factory default, won't it just work
for simple in and out?
Sadly, the Saffire 40 does not have world clock.
Any other recommendations? I just need 4 to 8 line outputs from ADAT,
BNC world clock and I highly prefer both analog in and out to be
symmetric/balanced.
Martin
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Martin Cracauer <cracauer(a)cons.org> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/
9:59 p.m.
New subject: Crazy world clock question
I have a RME HDSP 9652 and a PreSonus Digimax LT 8 for an optical ADAT
setup and plan to add a unit with outputs and do the world clock on
BNC thing.
Now, the thing is that I have an input unit that I like which is
S/PDIF only which I would also like to use.
Can I do the following stunt:
- connect that S/PDIF unit via optiocal cable to the RME
- have the ADAT units connected to the RME via optical and BNC
- have the RME or software running on Linux make a world clock from
whatever the S/PDIF unit is sending and send that to the ADAT units
as world clock?
How does the RME do world clock? Is that just built in? Is that
exposed to software on the Linux host?
Martin
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Martin Cracauer <cracauer(a)cons.org> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/
12 Sep
12 Sep
12:48 a.m.
New subject: Crazy world clock question
Clock signals aren't time code signals that by software can be
translated into another code. Converting a spdif clock signal to word
clock has to be done electronically. Assumed your device should be able
to convert the signal it gets from an spdif master, it's questionable
if such a daisy chain would be a sane solution. I don't know if any
device makes such conversions. AFAIK there are master clock devices
that provide spdif and word clock outputs. Keep in mind, only one device
could be the master, all other devices are slaves. A daisy chain
without converting the signal already should be avoided, that's why
expensive clock devices exist. The problem with a clock signal is
electronically accuracy, it's not translating a software protocol.
30 May
30 May
3:03 a.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
Am Freitag, den 29.05.2015, 16:37 -0400 schrieb Martin Cracauer:
So, these cards have multiple optical connectors.
That means I can
just run as many ADAT A/D units as I like? Input and output? And all
of that will be visible as a single soundcard with many channels in a
single jack demon? Is that how it works? Without having to make
software bridges between multiple jack demons?
Yes.
For my HDSP9652, I have 26 inputs and 26 outputs in qjackctl, no matter
how many ADAT-(and S/P-DIF-)devices are actually connected.
The thing is that I want 4 outputs, too. It seems
that 19" units with
both in and out are rare, so I am aiming for an 8-port in and a 4-port
out in separate units. That would be all in the same jackd?
Yes.
What happens if one of the units doesn't do world
clock and you mix it
with world clocked units? How does that end up in the same jackd? Does
it?
jackd doesn't care about how or if you attached your A/D-converters. It
just shows your soundcard.
But if you use some input with and some input without Wordclock-sync,
you will surely experience lots of dropouts. Not xruns, cause your
soundcard's working fine with jack, the dropouts will come from the
A/D-converters that don't sync with your soundcard.
I tried to keep my Presonus converters in sync via ADAT, exclusively,
and I got dropouts. The manufactures answer was, that I have to use
Wordclock.
Again, I had no problem with that f*** cheap Behringer-device, syncing
it with ADAT. Could be fortune. I don't know. :)
Greets!
Mitsch
3:58 a.m.
New subject: New hardware setup for recording (not same as existing threads)
On Sat, 30 May 2015 03:03:17 +0200, Michael Jarosch wrote:
I tried to keep my Presonus converters in sync via
ADAT, exclusively,
and I got dropouts. The manufactures answer was, that I have to use
Wordclock.
Again, I had no problem with that f*** cheap Behringer-device, syncing
it with ADAT. Could be fortune. I don't know. :)
Did you try to change slave and master when syncing the Presonus via
ADAT?
On Sat, 30 May 2015 02:14:56 +0200, Michael Jarosch wrote:
Am Freitag, den 29.05.2015, 23:34 +0200 schrieb Ralf
Mardorf:
2 channels :(, channels 3 to 8 have silent jack ports.
On Fri, 29 May 2015 20:31:13 -0400, Martin Cracauer wrote:
I bought my RME HDSPe AIO 4 years ago and today I
still don't know
how to get access to more than the first 2 ADAT channels by jackd.
You mean 2 channels or 2*8 ADAT-channels? Ralf Mardorf wrote on Fri, May 29, 2015 at 11:34:43PM
+0200:
Before I bought the RME card I used TerraTec for audio and MIDI, today I
use the RME card for audio and MIDI and TerraTec for MIDI only.
for MIDI.
card 0: HDSPMx579bcc [RME AIO_579bcc], device 0:
RME AIO [RME AIO]
card 1: EWX2496 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712
card 2: EWX2496_1 [TerraTec EWX24/96], device 0: ICE1712 multi
Can you clarify what these three devices represent? The first one is
for all the optical ADAT in, the other two for other units on the
card?
3362
days inactive
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
14 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Dale Kazakore Powell -
Martin Cracauer -
Michael Jarosch -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf -
Tilo Kremer