1 Mar
2006
1 Mar
'06
11:21 p.m.
David, you had me all the way up to this point:
And argue with people like Paul Davis on *this very
subject* is bound
to failure, if not rude.
I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this concept that some people are
off limits to argument, debate, disagreement, criticism or questioning.
Perhaps there's some male heirarchical conditioning behind such a notion,
but I can't accept it.
If it was not 'rude' or 'disrespectful' to argue with or insult me, then
it
is not rude to argue with Paul, or anyone else on this list.
As far as I am concerned, every single person on this list is an
intelligent, accomplished person in their own right, in their own fields of
endeavor, and deserving of equal respect - and equal scrutiny.
I also think everyone here is making useful contributions in their own way
to this community.
It has not escaped my notice that certain individuals in this community are
talked to, and about, with what borders almost on reverence and awe
(sounding religious again ;) ) - and it makes me squirrelly, and rather
embarassed.
However much I may admire and respect someone, I cannot put them up on a
pedestal - it's just not in my nature.
I have had occasion in my life to interact with people who are considered
powerful and famous or highly accomplished and influential in their fields,
and I haven't felt toward or treated them any differently than I do anyone
else. (And it has been my feeling that they have preferred it that way.)
There are many people whom I do not respect, but that has to do with their
character and conduct - not their rank or station in life, or level of
achievement in their respective field.
I am not a respector of class or station or worldly accomplishment - I
respect people for what they are inside and how they treat others.
If part of the community consensus here is that certain people are above
others - for whatever reason - and that they are beyond questioning, I can
no more fit in here than I did in academia.
I hope that that is not really the case.
[Sorry for the rant, but that definitely pushed one of my buttons.]
Anyway, I wish you to keep having a good time making or
listening to
music, through whatever device pleases you the most.
Well thank you very much - I will, and best wishes to you as well. :)
( And I respect your poise and graciousness in this awkward discussion.)
- Maluvia
1 Mar
1 Mar
11:30 p.m.
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 19:21 -0800, Maluvia wrote:
David, you had me all the way up to this point:
finally we agree on something.
--p
And argue with people like Paul Davis on *this
very subject* is bound
to failure, if not rude.
I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this concept that some people are
off limits to argument, debate, disagreement, criticism or questioning. 
2 Mar
2 Mar
12:04 a.m.
"Maluvia" <terakuma(a)imbris.net> wrote:
I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this
concept that some people are
off limits to argument, debate, disagreement, criticism or questioning.
And Maluvia stated a whole lot more that I agree with!
Anyway, I spent 12 years of my middle age working tech at a major university. I made it a
point to never address or refer to someone as professor, dean, etc. For me, addressing
everyone by their first name was one of my ways to get the point across that I was there
to help.
As far as my feelings about Paul:
(disclaimer: these are my observations, understandings, perceptions, and
"feelings")
He's quite good at coding, and has a lot of knowledge of audio and musicians needs
too. He's put a _lot_ of time and energy into linux audio and I would consider him
one of the experts at it. On the other hand he can be "moody", seem stressed
out, and not be very compassionate sometimes(he acts kind of human like the rest of us
here).
Tracey.
8:24 p.m.
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 19:21 -0800, Maluvia wrote:
David, you had me all the way up to this point:
I agree. Anyway, Paul's not off-limits to arguing - we argue with
him all the time. I'm sure he loves it ;-)
And argue with people like Paul Davis on *this
very subject* is bound
to failure, if not rude.
I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this concept that some people are
off limits to argument, debate, disagreement, criticism or questioning.
Perhaps there's some male heirarchical
conditioning behind such a notion,
but I can't accept it.
If it was not 'rude' or 'disrespectful' to argue with or insult me, then
it
is not rude to argue with Paul, or anyone else on this list.
As far as I am concerned, every single person on this list is an
intelligent, accomplished person in their own right, in their own fields of
endeavor, and deserving of equal respect - and equal scrutiny.
I also think everyone here is making useful contributions in their own way
to this community.
It has not escaped my notice that certain individuals in this community are
talked to, and about, with what borders almost on reverence and awe
(sounding religious again ;) ) - and it makes me squirrelly, and rather
embarassed.
I do have to say that, after having programmed professionally for
about 30 years, Paul is damn good! Probably on the same level as some
of the higher end kernel people (and certainly way the hell better than
me ;-)
If part of the community consensus here is that
certain people are above
others - for whatever reason - and that they are beyond questioning, I can
no more fit in here than I did in academia.
I hope that that is not really the case.
Nope, you can yell at anyone here ;-) The nice thing here is that
most people can handle it. If you want to get seriously slapped down
try posting on prosoundweb (I don't even attempt it ;-)
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and
this we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
10:27 p.m.
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:21:47 -0600
Jan Depner <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net> wrote:
I agree. Anyway, Paul's not off-limits to arguing - we argue with
him all the time. I'm sure he loves it ;-)
Misunderstanding here. I certainly shouldn't have mentioned anyone's
name. No gregarious male attitude involved though. :)
--
David
And argue with people like Paul Davis on *this very
subject* is
bound to failure, if not rude.
I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this concept that some
people are off limits to argument, debate, disagreement, criticism
or questioning.
10:42 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] OT on LAU [was] Digital Fidelity
Maluvia wrote:
David, you had me all the way up to this point:
Let's remove the 'rude' bit from that sentence. Paul gets respect
because he knows his stuff, he is _very_ good at arguing his point and
he is largely responsible for two pieces of software that allow all of
us on this list to create some incredible pieces of great beauty. The
pedestal he gets put on is rarely more that 6" high and mostly so the
back rows can see him too. Deifying people is dumb, mostly people make
these sort of statements with the intent of expressing respect or thanks
and I suspect there is a certain amount of dry humour going on as well.
There are actually quite a few people on this list who Really Fucking
Know Their Stuff. If you are getting replies from such people, you can
be assured that you are asking reasonably good questions, even if the
answers seem impatient. Your answers _seem_ impatient to me. It's easy
to seem impatient. I should know. ;)
It's not that 'some people are off limits' - it's that some topics of
conversation are generally considered OT - if I don't actually have all
morning to carefully consider everyone's postings these are the ones
that I don't bother reading. The main problem I'm having with your
postings is that they are so incredibly verbose and take an awful lot of
reading. Because you clearly do have a high degree of knowledge in the
audio field, I find myself being drawn into considering your points and
then personally I get frustrated because I don't understand what on
earth you are trying to say.
And argue with people like Paul Davis on *this
very subject* is bound
to failure, if not rude.
I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this concept that some people are
off limits to argument, debate, disagreement, criticism or questioning. Perhaps there's some male heirarchical
conditioning behind such a notion,
but I can't accept it.
Yeah, it's called honour codes.
As you must be well aware, the fields of programming and sound
engineering are horribly male dominated, which is unfortunate as women
are more strongly conditioned to be good listeners than men. This is no
more a general rule than saying that men are more honourable, of course.
If it was not 'rude' or
'disrespectful' to argue with or insult me, then it
is not rude to argue with Paul, or anyone else on this list.
As far as I am concerned, every single person on this list is an
intelligent, accomplished person in their own right, in their own fields of
endeavor, and deserving of equal respect - and equal scrutiny.
I also think everyone here is making useful contributions in their own way
to this community.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
It has not escaped my notice that certain individuals
in this community are
talked to, and about, with what borders almost on reverence and awe
(sounding religious again ;) ) - and it makes me squirrelly, and rather
embarassed.
However much I may admire and respect someone, I cannot put them up on a
pedestal - it's just not in my nature.
I have had occasion in my life to interact with people who are considered
powerful and famous or highly accomplished and influential in their fields,
and I haven't felt toward or treated them any differently than I do anyone
else. (And it has been my feeling that they have preferred it that way.)
There are many people whom I do not respect, but that has to do with their
character and conduct - not their rank or station in life, or level of
achievement in their respective field.
I am not a respector of class or station or worldly accomplishment - I
respect people for what they are inside and how they treat others.
If part of the community consensus here is that certain people are above
others - for whatever reason - and that they are beyond questioning, I can
no more fit in here than I did in academia.
I hope that that is not really the case.
[Sorry for the rant, but that definitely pushed one of my buttons.]
Ooh! what does this big shiny red one do? *prod prod*
It is not the case, no.
This list does run at quite a high technical level, when I first signed
up I thought I'd got LAD by mistake, when the list produces 100+
postings some days, we do owe it too each other not to waffle on too
much, or at least be entertaining. When people say this is not the best
place for certain topics I would take it as friendly guidance, not as
any kind of personal comment. Yes, there are quite a lot of shared
assumptions and jargon to get used to, this is one reason why it is
always suggested to lurk a bit before posting to a new list, especially
on such heavyweight topics.
If you hang out here for a bit longer, I think you'll start to really
appreciate the level of support this list can give.
cheers
tim hall
/|\
6657
days inactive
6658
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
5 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
David -
Jan Depner -
Maluvia -
Paul Davis -
tim hall -
Tracey Hytry