18 Jan
2010
18 Jan
'10
5:32 a.m.
I've recently started adding new gear to my studio, which isn't much
beyond a room in an apartment converted into a music studio initially
used for lessons but will soon be used for recording. Although it's
not sound-proofed and is only 1 room (not a control room with studio,
or anything like that) it's at least a start. Perhaps in the future,
the next time I move, it'll be easier to set up a more controlled
recording environment. In any case, I have a question about the gear
and any general points on where to start with things. At the moment
I'm still waiting for some of the gear to arrive via mail but it
should all be here by the end of this week.
Here's the list...
Instruments:
Acoustic & electric guitars
Bass guitar
Electronic drumset (a very nice Roland, MIDI but also has direct
outs/main outs (1/4" TRS))
USB/MIDI keyboard (M-Audio Axiom 49)
Various other instruments, percussion, winds, strings
Misc. gear:
Amps (combos, i.e. Marshall, TubeWorks)
Power amp (not currently using this, it's a 4 channel PA)
Recording gear:
4 mics (AT2020s)
Mixer (Mackie 1642-VLZ3, 16 channel 4 bus analog mixer)
Digital audio interface (M-Audio Delta 1010)
Computer (64-bit quad core 2.6GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, 3TB space; running
Ubuntu Studio 9.10)
The new equipment is the recording gear - specifically the Mackie
mixer, the Delta 1010 audio interface, and the mics.
I have a variety of questions that will all, naturally, come to mind
as I begin digging deeper into this new equipment, though for starters
I'll ask one simple question...
Where would you suggest I begin?
I'd like to record & compose. I'm not familiar with the most effective
music composition software for Linux that works well with USB/MIDI
keyboards. As far as recording, I'm interested in using Ardour. I
understand I have to set up JACK. The Ubuntu Studio system comes with
a handful of packages pre-installed. I'm not sure where to begin with
all of those programs, or which ones might be the "main ones" that
I'll be using for recording purposes and then for composing purposes.
Thank you for any input on any of this!
18 Jan
18 Jan
6:26 a.m.
Ectropic Harmony <ectropic.harmony(a)gmail.com> writes:
I've recently started adding new gear to my studio
The new equipment is the recording gear - specifically
the Mackie
mixer, the Delta 1010 audio interface, and the mics.
I have a variety of questions that will all, naturally, come to mind
as I begin digging deeper into this new equipment, though for starters
I'll ask one simple question...
Where would you suggest I begin?
You didn't mention monitors.. I assume you have a pair or are planning
to buy them: they're a central piece of equipment. While doing
everything on phones is doable, is not very comfortable. In particular,
experts usually tend to dissuade you to mix on phones.
A good point to start is the manual of the mixer: study it thoroughly as
it is where the "sound" is created. Study its routing, how to connect it
to the soundcard and how to connect the soundcard to it, especially how
to avoid dangerous loops (a very high and unpleasant "beeeep"
sound). Install and study also the software mixer (envy24control) that
controls your soundcard, especially how monitoring works.
I'd like to record & compose. I'm not
familiar with the most effective
music composition software for Linux that works well with USB/MIDI
keyboards. As far as recording, I'm interested in using Ardour. I
understand I have to set up JACK. The Ubuntu Studio system comes with
a handful of packages pre-installed. I'm not sure where to begin with
all of those programs, or which ones might be the "main ones" that
I'll be using for recording purposes and then for composing purposes.
Ardour is a great application, and since you have real instruments it
will likely become your main recording application. Yes, JACK is central
here and you need to understand it and configure it to obtain optimal
performance with your soundcard. Jack is used to route any internal
audio signal (like for example, the audio output of a soft-synth) to
ardour: so you can for example use your MIDI keyboard to play a
soft-synth whose audio output is recorded into ardour.
Since you have also MIDI equipment, you may also want a sequencer
application for composing or recording editable MIDI performances. There
are various sequencers around, the main ones are rosegarden, muse and
qtractor. If you're fluent with notation, rosegarden is a good choice
(the other two don't offer notation). You can sync the sequencer to
ardour with a mechanism called jack_transport which shares the musical
timeline between different applications.
MIDI however is a whole can of worms in itself, so if you want to keep
it simple at the beginning, just use ardour to record audio like if it
were a multitrack tape recorder.
There is a new manual for ardour here:
http://en.flossmanuals.net/ardour/
Then there are lots of other softwares you can use, for example
soft-synths (zynaddsubfx, phasex, ams, fluidsynth/qsynth, etc...) music
engraving systems like lilypond or abc, languages such as csound,
puredata, supercollider, etc.. You can do ear training with solfege,
work with loops with freewheeling or sooperlooper, do mastering with
jamin, edit soundfiles destructively with audacity, rezound, snd or
mhwaveedit, make drum grooves with hydrogen, and a whole lot of other
tools. Look at this site:
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/apps/start
Many of the applications listed will be available directly through the
ubuntu software package management system, but some may offer only
source code and require you to build (compile) them yourself: not
difficult but not the easiest thing if you haven't done it before. This
skill too can be set aside, at the beginning.
Thank you for any input on any of this!
HTH
Ciao
--
Emiliano Grilli
Linux user #209089
http://www.emillo.net
25 Jan
25 Jan
10:33 p.m.
You didn't mention monitors.. I assume you have a
pair or are planning
to buy them: they're a central piece of equipment. While doing
everything on phones is doable, is not very comfortable. In particular,
experts usually tend to dissuade you to mix on phones.
Mixes produced on cans alone tend to be way too 'wet'. The stereo
imaging is completely different. I do mix on cans, but I always check
everything I do on monitors constantly as well.
Just so you have more details to go on!
Monty
18 Jan
18 Jan
1:23 p.m.
Ectropic Harmony wrote:
I've recently started adding new gear to my
studio, which isn't much...
Here's the list...
Instruments:
Acoustic & electric guitars
Bass guitar
Electronic drumset (a very nice Roland, MIDI but also has direct
outs/main outs (1/4" TRS))
USB/MIDI keyboard (M-Audio Axiom 49)
Various other instruments, percussion, winds, strings
Misc. gear:
Amps (combos, i.e. Marshall, TubeWorks)
Power amp (not currently using this, it's a 4 channel PA)
Recording gear:
4 mics (AT2020s)
Mixer (Mackie 1642-VLZ3, 16 channel 4 bus analog mixer)
Digital audio interface (M-Audio Delta 1010)
Computer (64-bit quad core 2.6GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, 3TB space; running
Ubuntu Studio 9.10)
The new equipment is the recording gear - specifically the Mackie
mixer, the Delta 1010 audio interface, and the mics.
This isn't too unlike my setup, except that I have an acoustic drum
kit. The keys to successful acoustic recording (IMO):
1. Good microphones.
2. Good cables.
3. Good mixer.
4. Good room.
The rest of it comes down to mic placement, and the quality of the
musicians themselves. The difference between the cheap and modestly
priced components above will manifest itself in hiss and line noise.
Every step in the chain must be good (or better) quality to get a smooth
recording.
My setup is tubes and acoustics all the way to my DAW. Ardour is
amazing and does everything I need to record 12+ tracks simultaneously.
-Scott
22 Jan
22 Jan
5:21 p.m.
Okay, I'd like to try this arrangement with the
cables/patch-bays/etc., though I currently need monitor speakers and
am just using headphones-
From sources to mixer:
1. 4 XLRs (mics) into
Mackie strips 1-4
2. 1 Line In (from guitar amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 5
3. 1 Line In (from another amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 6
4. 2 Line Ins (from "Master Out" (L&R) of elec.drumset) into Mackie strip
"9-10"
(Also hooking elec.drumset's MIDI up to the Delta 1010 dig.rec.system)
(Also hooking up USB/MIDI keyboard/controller to computer)
From mixer to digital recording system:
5. 4 TRSs
(from Mackie Direct Outs 1-4) into Delta inputs 1-4
6. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 5) into Delta input 5
7. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 6) into Delta input 6
8. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Sub Outs 1-2, with "1-2" enabled) into Delta inputs 7-8
From digital recording system to mixer:
9. 2 TRSs
(from Delta Outs 1-2) into Mackie strip "13-14", with "L/R" enabled
10. 2 TRSs (from Delta Outs 3-4) into Mackie strip "15-16", with "L/R"
enabled
11. 1 TRS (from Delta out 5) into Mackie strip 7, with "L/R" enabled
12. 1 TRS (from Delta out 6) into Mackie strip 8, with "L/R" enabled
13. 2 TRSs (from Delta outs 7-8) into Mackie strip "11-12", with "L/R"
enabled
From mixer to PA:
14. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Main
Outs L&R) into PA channels 1 & 2
From PA to speakers:
15. 2 TRSs (from the 2 PA
Outs) into 2 monitor speakers
I don't know... would that set-up work?
My hunch is using the PA is overkill in a home recording situation,
though perhaps appropriate in a live setting. It has 4 channels, so
that opens up an additional 2 free channels for 1 more stereo source.
Right?
Well, that's my attempt at using every single strip on the mixer. ;) I
hope I didn't totally mutilate the patching order.
Here's my attempt at a more immediate set-up for home recording and
monitoring via headphones:
From sources to mixer:
1. 4 XLRs (mics) into
Mackie strips 1-4
2. 1 Line In (from guitar amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 5
3. 1 Line In (from another amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 6
4. 2 Line Ins (from "Master Out" (L&R) of elec.drumset) into Mackie strip
"9-10"
(Also hooking up elec.drumset's MIDI to the Delta 1010 dig.rec.system)
(Also hooking up USB/MIDI keyboard/controller to computer)
From mixer to digital recording system:
5. 4 TRSs
(from Mackie Direct Outs 1-4) into Delta inputs 1-4
6. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 5) into Delta input 5
7. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 6) into Delta input 6
8. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Sub Outs 1-2, with "1-2" enabled) into Delta inputs 7-8
From digital recording system to mixer:
9. 2 TRSs
(from Delta Outs 1-2) into Mackie strip "15-16", with "L/R" enabled
(Using the Delta Outs 1-2 as Main Mix)
From mixer to headphones:
10. Enable "Main
Mix 'Source'" on Mackie & adjust phones volume w/
phones in phones port "A" on the Mackie
I do plan on getting monitor speakers, and I do have normal computer
speakers (Harmon-Kardon "2.1", not sure how I could implement those in
this set-up) but I'll need to otherwise make do with headphones for
now.
I'd like to be able to use the 6 extra Delta Outs, the Mackie's subs
3-4, all of the extra Sub Outs on the back of the Mackie, the
remaining two Direct outs (7 & 8) on the Mackie, the remaining Ins on
the Mackie (7, 8, 11-12, & 13-14), and of course the Aux features
would be auxsome... I mean awesome. All in due time. :)
Anyway, did I do anything wrong with the patch set-ups above, in
particular the 2nd one - with 10 steps - that ends up monitoring via
headphones?
Thanks!
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Scott Ecker <lau(a)troutpocket.org> wrote:
Ectropic Harmony wrote:
I've recently started adding new gear to my
studio, which isn't much...
Here's the list...
Instruments:
Acoustic & electric guitars
Bass guitar
Electronic drumset (a very nice Roland, MIDI but also has direct
outs/main outs (1/4" TRS))
USB/MIDI keyboard (M-Audio Axiom 49)
Various other instruments, percussion, winds, strings
Misc. gear:
Amps (combos, i.e. Marshall, TubeWorks)
Power amp (not currently using this, it's a 4 channel PA)
Recording gear:
4 mics (AT2020s)
Mixer (Mackie 1642-VLZ3, 16 channel 4 bus analog mixer)
Digital audio interface (M-Audio Delta 1010)
Computer (64-bit quad core 2.6GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, 3TB space; running
Ubuntu Studio 9.10)
The new equipment is the recording gear - specifically the Mackie
mixer, the Delta 1010 audio interface, and the mics.
This isn't too unlike my setup, except that I have an acoustic drum
kit. The keys to successful acoustic recording (IMO):
1. Good microphones.
2. Good cables.
3. Good mixer.
4. Good room.
The rest of it comes down to mic placement, and the quality of the
musicians themselves. The difference between the cheap and modestly
priced components above will manifest itself in hiss and line noise.
Every step in the chain must be good (or better) quality to get a smooth
recording.
My setup is tubes and acoustics all the way to my DAW. Ardour is
amazing and does everything I need to record 12+ tracks simultaneously.
-Scott
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
25 Jan
25 Jan
1:40 p.m.
I haven't had a chance to test the entire set-up of multiple
connections just yet (see message below for what I'm thinking about
trying, I don't know if it'll work) but I have managed to get a basic
recording going with mics into mixer into delta interface into
computer.
One issue right now -
Levels.
Really low levels.
I've adjusted the levels on the mixer, in the envy24 control, and in
Ardour... and it's like I have to max things out just to get a decent
volume.
What's the trick getting rock solid levels during recording and
playback both without having to max things out? :-\
Thanks!
-"E.H."
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Ectropic Harmony
<ectropic.harmony(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I'd like to try this arrangement with the
cables/patch-bays/etc., though I currently need monitor speakers and
am just using headphones-
From sources to mixer:
1. 4 XLRs (mics) into Mackie strips 1-4
2. 1 Line In (from guitar amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 5
3. 1 Line In (from another amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 6
4. 2 Line Ins (from "Master Out" (L&R) of elec.drumset) into Mackie strip
"9-10"
(Also hooking elec.drumset's MIDI up to the Delta 1010 dig.rec.system)
(Also hooking up USB/MIDI keyboard/controller to computer)
From mixer to digital recording system:
5. 4 TRSs (from Mackie Direct Outs 1-4) into Delta inputs 1-4
6. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 5) into Delta input 5
7. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 6) into Delta input 6
8. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Sub Outs 1-2, with "1-2" enabled) into Delta inputs 7-8
From digital recording system to mixer:
9. 2 TRSs (from Delta Outs 1-2) into Mackie strip "13-14", with "L/R"
enabled
10. 2 TRSs (from Delta Outs 3-4) into Mackie strip "15-16", with
"L/R" enabled
11. 1 TRS (from Delta out 5) into Mackie strip 7, with "L/R" enabled
12. 1 TRS (from Delta out 6) into Mackie strip 8, with "L/R" enabled
13. 2 TRSs (from Delta outs 7-8) into Mackie strip "11-12", with
"L/R" enabled
From mixer to PA:
14. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Main Outs L&R) into PA channels 1 & 2
From PA to speakers:
15. 2 TRSs (from the 2 PA Outs) into 2 monitor speakers
I don't know... would that set-up work?
My hunch is using the PA is overkill in a home recording situation,
though perhaps appropriate in a live setting. It has 4 channels, so
that opens up an additional 2 free channels for 1 more stereo source.
Right?
Well, that's my attempt at using every single strip on the mixer. ;) I
hope I didn't totally mutilate the patching order.
Here's my attempt at a more immediate set-up for home recording and
monitoring via headphones:
From sources to mixer:
1. 4 XLRs (mics) into Mackie strips 1-4
2. 1 Line In (from guitar amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 5
3. 1 Line In (from another amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 6
4. 2 Line Ins (from "Master Out" (L&R) of elec.drumset) into Mackie strip
"9-10"
(Also hooking up elec.drumset's MIDI to the Delta 1010 dig.rec.system)
(Also hooking up USB/MIDI keyboard/controller to computer)
From mixer to digital recording system:
5. 4 TRSs (from Mackie Direct Outs 1-4) into Delta inputs 1-4
6. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 5) into Delta input 5
7. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 6) into Delta input 6
8. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Sub Outs 1-2, with "1-2" enabled) into Delta inputs 7-8
From digital recording system to mixer:
9. 2 TRSs (from Delta Outs 1-2) into Mackie strip "15-16", with "L/R"
enabled
(Using the Delta Outs 1-2 as Main Mix)
From mixer to headphones:
10. Enable "Main Mix 'Source'" on Mackie & adjust phones volume w/
phones in phones port "A" on the Mackie
I do plan on getting monitor speakers, and I do have normal computer
speakers (Harmon-Kardon "2.1", not sure how I could implement those in
this set-up) but I'll need to otherwise make do with headphones for
now.
I'd like to be able to use the 6 extra Delta Outs, the Mackie's subs
3-4, all of the extra Sub Outs on the back of the Mackie, the
remaining two Direct outs (7 & 8) on the Mackie, the remaining Ins on
the Mackie (7, 8, 11-12, & 13-14), and of course the Aux features
would be auxsome... I mean awesome. All in due time. :)
Anyway, did I do anything wrong with the patch set-ups above, in
particular the 2nd one - with 10 steps - that ends up monitoring via
headphones?
Thanks!
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Scott Ecker <lau(a)troutpocket.org> wrote:
Ectropic Harmony wrote:
I've recently started adding new gear to my
studio, which isn't much...
Here's the list...
Instruments:
Acoustic & electric guitars
Bass guitar
Electronic drumset (a very nice Roland, MIDI but also has direct
outs/main outs (1/4" TRS))
USB/MIDI keyboard (M-Audio Axiom 49)
Various other instruments, percussion, winds, strings
Misc. gear:
Amps (combos, i.e. Marshall, TubeWorks)
Power amp (not currently using this, it's a 4 channel PA)
Recording gear:
4 mics (AT2020s)
Mixer (Mackie 1642-VLZ3, 16 channel 4 bus analog mixer)
Digital audio interface (M-Audio Delta 1010)
Computer (64-bit quad core 2.6GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, 3TB space; running
Ubuntu Studio 9.10)
The new equipment is the recording gear - specifically the Mackie
mixer, the Delta 1010 audio interface, and the mics.
This isn't too unlike my setup, except that I have an acoustic drum
kit. The keys to successful acoustic recording (IMO):
1. Good microphones.
2. Good cables.
3. Good mixer.
4. Good room.
The rest of it comes down to mic placement, and the quality of the
musicians themselves. The difference between the cheap and modestly
priced components above will manifest itself in hiss and line noise.
Every step in the chain must be good (or better) quality to get a smooth
recording.
My setup is tubes and acoustics all the way to my DAW. Ardour is
amazing and does everything I need to record 12+ tracks simultaneously.
-Scott
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
3:24 p.m.
Don't overlook the pushbuttons on each of the rack-mount unit's inputs that may be
cutting about 10dB.
Martin
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:22:24 -0600
From: ectropic.harmony(a)gmail.com
To: linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [LAU] Questions on New Recording Gear
I haven't had a chance to test the entire set-up of multiple
connections just yet (see message below for what I'm thinking about
trying, I don't know if it'll work) but I have managed to get a basic
recording going with mics into mixer into delta interface into
computer.
One issue right now -
Levels.
Really low levels.
I've adjusted the levels on the mixer, in the envy24 control, and in
Ardour... and it's like I have to max things out just to get a decent
volume.
What's the trick getting rock solid levels during recording and
playback both without having to max things out? :-\
Thanks!
-"E.H."
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Ectropic Harmony
<ectropic.harmony(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I'd like to try this arrangement with
the
cables/patch-bays/etc., though I currently need monitor speakers and
am just using headphones-
From sources to mixer:
1. 4 XLRs (mics) into Mackie strips 1-4
2. 1 Line In (from guitar amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 5
3. 1 Line In (from another amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 6
4. 2 Line Ins (from "Master Out" (L&R) of elec.drumset) into Mackie strip
"9-10"
(Also hooking elec.drumset's MIDI up to the Delta 1010 dig.rec.system)
(Also hooking up USB/MIDI keyboard/controller to computer)
From mixer to digital recording system:
5. 4 TRSs (from Mackie Direct Outs 1-4) into Delta inputs 1-4
6. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 5) into Delta input 5
7. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 6) into Delta input 6
8. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Sub Outs 1-2, with "1-2" enabled) into Delta inputs 7-8
From digital recording system to mixer:
9. 2 TRSs (from Delta Outs 1-2) into Mackie strip "13-14", with "L/R"
enabled
10. 2 TRSs (from Delta Outs 3-4) into Mackie strip "15-16", with
"L/R" enabled
11. 1 TRS (from Delta out 5) into Mackie strip 7, with "L/R" enabled
12. 1 TRS (from Delta out 6) into Mackie strip 8, with "L/R" enabled
13. 2 TRSs (from Delta outs 7-8) into Mackie strip "11-12", with
"L/R" enabled
From mixer to PA:
14. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Main Outs L&R) into PA channels 1 & 2
From PA to speakers:
15. 2 TRSs (from the 2 PA Outs) into 2 monitor speakers
I don't know... would that set-up work?
My hunch is using the PA is overkill in a home recording situation,
though perhaps appropriate in a live setting. It has 4 channels, so
that opens up an additional 2 free channels for 1 more stereo source.
Right?
Well, that's my attempt at using every single strip on the mixer. ;) I
hope I didn't totally mutilate the patching order.
Here's my attempt at a more immediate set-up for home recording and
monitoring via headphones:
From sources to mixer:
1. 4 XLRs (mics) into Mackie strips 1-4
2. 1 Line In (from guitar amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 5
3. 1 Line In (from another amp "Line Out") into Mackie strip 6
4. 2 Line Ins (from "Master Out" (L&R) of elec.drumset) into Mackie strip
"9-10"
(Also hooking up elec.drumset's MIDI to the Delta 1010 dig.rec.system)
(Also hooking up USB/MIDI keyboard/controller to computer)
From mixer to digital recording system:
5. 4 TRSs (from Mackie Direct Outs 1-4) into Delta inputs 1-4
6. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 5) into Delta input 5
7. 1 TRS (from Mackie Direct Out 6) into Delta input 6
8. 2 TRSs (from Mackie Sub Outs 1-2, with "1-2" enabled) into Delta inputs 7-8
From digital recording system to mixer:
9. 2 TRSs (from Delta Outs 1-2) into Mackie strip "15-16", with "L/R"
enabled
(Using the Delta Outs 1-2 as Main Mix)
From mixer to headphones:
10. Enable "Main Mix 'Source'" on Mackie & adjust phones volume w/
phones in phones port "A" on the Mackie
I do plan on getting monitor speakers, and I do have normal computer
speakers (Harmon-Kardon "2.1", not sure how I could implement those in
this set-up) but I'll need to otherwise make do with headphones for
now.
I'd like to be able to use the 6 extra Delta Outs, the Mackie's subs
3-4, all of the extra Sub Outs on the back of the Mackie, the
remaining two Direct outs (7 & 8) on the Mackie, the remaining Ins on
the Mackie (7, 8, 11-12, & 13-14), and of course the Aux features
would be auxsome... I mean awesome. All in due time. :)
Anyway, did I do anything wrong with the patch set-ups above, in
particular the 2nd one - with 10 steps - that ends up monitoring via
headphones?
Thanks!
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Scott Ecker <lau(a)troutpocket.org> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user Ectropic Harmony wrote:
I've recently started adding new gear to my
studio, which isn't much...
Here's the list...
Instruments:
Acoustic & electric guitars
Bass guitar
Electronic drumset (a very nice Roland, MIDI but also has direct
outs/main outs (1/4" TRS))
USB/MIDI keyboard (M-Audio Axiom 49)
Various other instruments, percussion, winds, strings
Misc. gear:
Amps (combos, i.e. Marshall, TubeWorks)
Power amp (not currently using this, it's a 4 channel PA)
Recording gear:
4 mics (AT2020s)
Mixer (Mackie 1642-VLZ3, 16 channel 4 bus analog mixer)
Digital audio interface (M-Audio Delta 1010)
Computer (64-bit quad core 2.6GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, 3TB space; running
Ubuntu Studio 9.10)
The new equipment is the recording gear - specifically the Mackie
mixer, the Delta 1010 audio interface, and the mics.
This isn't too unlike my setup, except that I have an acoustic drum
kit. The keys to successful acoustic recording (IMO):
1. Good microphones.
2. Good cables.
3. Good mixer.
4. Good room.
The rest of it comes down to mic placement, and the quality of the
musicians themselves. The difference between the cheap and modestly
priced components above will manifest itself in hiss and line noise.
Every step in the chain must be good (or better) quality to get a smooth
recording.
My setup is tubes and acoustics all the way to my DAW. Ardour is
amazing and does everything I need to record 12+ tracks simultaneously.
-Scott
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
4:38 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Ectropic Harmony
<ectropic.harmony(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I haven't had a chance to test the entire set-up
of multiple
connections just yet (see message below for what I'm thinking about
trying, I don't know if it'll work) but I have managed to get a basic
recording going with mics into mixer into delta interface into
computer.
One issue right now -
Levels.
Really low levels.
sounds like it could be The Case of the Missing Preamp
7:53 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:22:24AM -0600, Ectropic Harmony wrote:
I haven't had a chance to test the entire set-up
of multiple
connections just yet (see message below for what I'm thinking about
trying, I don't know if it'll work) but I have managed to get a basic
recording going with mics into mixer into delta interface into
computer.
One issue right now -
Levels.
Really low levels.
I've adjusted the levels on the mixer, in the envy24 control, and in
Ardour... and it's like I have to max things out just to get a decent
volume.
What's the trick getting rock solid levels during recording and
playback both without having to max things out? :-\
Since you're using a mixer, the only way to preserve your
sanity is to fix the envy24control gains to some calibrated
value. Normally the 'neutral' setting is 127 for all ADC/DAC
controls - this should produce equal input and output levels
but how much this is true will depend on your soundcard design.
For the ADCs, the part above 127 actually controls a separate
preamp stage which you normally should not use for line level
inputs. Select +4dBm or not depending on what your mixer expects
and produces.
First calibrate the playback part by playing e.g. some ripped CD
tracks in Ardour, and adjusting the mixer/soundcard gains and
the final volume control. Once this is OK, don't touch anything
on the playback part (except maybe your final volume), and then
adjust inputs. If you don't have enough gain for some instruments,
you'll need DI boxes or preamps.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
26 Jan
26 Jan
12:46 a.m.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 5:49 PM, <fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:22:24AM -0600, Ectropic
Harmony wrote:
> I haven't had a chance to test the entire set-up of multiple
> connections just yet (see message below for what I'm thinking about
> trying, I don't know if it'll work) but I have managed to get a basic
> recording going with mics into mixer into delta interface into
> computer.
>
> One issue right now -
>
> Levels.
>
> Really low levels.
>
> I've adjusted the levels on the mixer, in the envy24 control, and in
> Ardour... and it's like I have to max things out just to get a decent
> volume.
>
> What's the trick getting rock solid levels during recording and
> playback both without having to max things out? :-\
I have AT2020s:
http://www.microphonereviews.com/product-reviews/microphones/audio-technica…
And a Mackie 1642-VLZ3:
http://www.mackie.com/products/1642vlz3/
(Also an M-Audio Delta 1010 interface for the computer)
I'm not sure if, from that, I can determine whether or not I need a
separate mic preamps type device.
Any ideas?
Hopefully it's just a matter of me incorrectly setting levels. :-\ But
if I need a preamp device I'll definitely get one.
8:38 a.m.
On Monday 25 January 2010 23:46:12 Ectropic Harmony wrote:
And a Mackie 1642-VLZ3:
http://www.mackie.com/products/1642vlz3/
From that link:
10 studio-grade XDR2™ Extended Dynamic Range mic preamps with:
So you have preamps built into that.
How are you connecting things up?
all the best,
drew
12:05 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:38 AM, drew Roberts <zotz(a)100jamz.com> wrote:
On Monday 25 January 2010 23:46:12 Ectropic Harmony
wrote:
Mics currently placed about 3 or 4 feet from sound sources.
XLRs into mixer Ins on the strips.
Phantom power enabled.
Gains on strips are set to an uncomfortably high level (over half and
it's still low).
Main Mix & the channels' faders are all set to "U".
Direct Outs from the back of the mixer into the Ins on the Delta 1010.
Default button settings on back of Delta 1010 (buttons out, allowing "+4")
Software connections via JACK
Envy24 running, with levels maxed out (ins and outs).
Ardour (no current changes in Ardour's mixer's levels, using default).
And a Mackie 1642-VLZ3:
http://www.mackie.com/products/1642vlz3/
From that link:
10 studio-grade XDR2™ Extended Dynamic Range mic preamps with:
So you have preamps built into that.
How are you connecting things up?
all the best,
drew
12:43 p.m.
Ectropic Harmony wrote:
Mics currently placed about 3 or 4 feet from sound
sources.
XLRs into mixer Ins on the strips.
Phantom power enabled.
Gains on strips are set to an uncomfortably high level (over half and
it's still low).
Main Mix & the channels' faders are all set to "U".
Direct Outs from the back of the mixer into the Ins on the Delta 1010.
Default button settings on back of Delta 1010 (buttons out, allowing "+4")
Software connections via JACK
Envy24 running, with levels maxed out (ins and outs).
Ardour (no current changes in Ardour's mixer's levels, using default)
I made this diagram to help me visualize how everything should connect
back when I first set up my studio. Maybe it'll help in your case.
http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/troutpocket/music/?action=view&…
-Scott
1:42 p.m.
On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:05:05 Ectropic Harmony wrote:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:38 AM, drew Roberts
<zotz(a)100jamz.com> wrote:
Let's leave the 1010 and computer out of the equation for a bit.
What does it sound like with this setup if you listen to the mixer itself with
headphones?
If levels there sound fine, next I would hook up the stereo out of the mixer
to the 1010 instead of the direct outs and see if you can get good levels
there...
Others have mentioned mic distance.
On Monday 25 January 2010 23:46:12 Ectropic
Harmony wrote:
Mics currently placed about 3 or 4 feet from sound sources.
XLRs into mixer Ins on the strips.
Phantom power enabled.
Gains on strips are set to an uncomfortably high level (over half and
it's still low).
Main Mix & the channels' faders are all set to "U". And a Mackie 1642-VLZ3:
http://www.mackie.com/products/1642vlz3/
From that link:
10 studio-grade XDR2™ Extended Dynamic Range mic preamps with:
So you have preamps built into that.
How are you connecting things up?
all the best,
drew Direct Outs from the back of the mixer into the Ins on
the Delta 1010.
Default button settings on back of Delta 1010 (buttons out, allowing "+4")
Software connections via JACK
Envy24 running, with levels maxed out (ins and outs).
Ardour (no current changes in Ardour's mixer's levels, using default).
all the best,
drew
1:51 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:05:05AM -0600, Ectropic Harmony wrote:
Mics currently placed about 3 or 4 feet from sound
sources.
XLRs into mixer Ins on the strips.
Phantom power enabled.
Gains on strips are set to an uncomfortably high level (over half and
it's still low).
There's nothing wrong with turning them up as high as necessary.
Main Mix & the channels' faders are all set to
"U".
Direct Outs from the back of the mixer into the Ins on the Delta 1010.
Default button settings on back of Delta 1010 (buttons out, allowing "+4")
Software connections via JACK
Envy24 running, with levels maxed out (ins and outs).
Don't do that. As a starting point set all DAC/ADC levels
to 127 (that's max for the DACs but not for the ADCs).
Above 127 the ADCs have extra gain which you don't need
since your mixer will provide more than enough output level.
In the envy24 monitor mixer mute everything.
In the envy24 patchbay set all analog outputs to 'PCM'.
Ardour (no current changes in Ardour's mixer's
levels, using default).
There are two things to get right:
1. The input gains on the mixer (for mics and other
sources). Getting this right has nothing to do with
the Delta 1010 or the PC. Do this first, using the
mixer's meters and headphone monitoring. The mixer
has more than enough gain and control range to get
this right.
2. The gains between your mixer and the digital world.
These are set with the envy24 DAC and ADC gains, see
higher. Once set never touch them again (since you can
do everything on the mixer), and only use Ardour's
level meters.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
2:33 p.m.
Regarding mics' distance -
I would like to be able to record a chorus/choir and large ensemble
settings with the mics at a greater distance. (I'll also record
guitars/bass/drums/etc. but I'm assuming that'll require lower "gain"
levels. At the moment I'm testing a nylon-string acoustic with the
mics a few feet away.)
Regarding just the mixer -
I've tested the levels on the mixer alone (took the delta 1010 and
computer out of the equation), and at the moment - when using either
"solo" for testing levels or "L/R" w/ all faders set to "U"
- I have
to adjust the "gain" levels to a little over half (the knobs read a
range of 0-60, they're set at around "35" to "40" approximately).
And the "Level Set" never reachs "0" (the meter lights that have
"0dB=0dBu"). At best, the lights that go up/down based on how loud it
is only go up 1 or 2 of those lights (reading 30 or maybe 20). The
weird thing is, I temporarily had another mixer before this and it
easily reached "0"/Level Set. This is actually a more expensive mixer
and it barely lights up on those light-meter things. (Sorry I don't
know the lingo/terminology.)
There's nothing wrong with turning them up as high
as necessary.
This is good to hear. I have only hesitated to turn the "gains" up any
higher because of fear of "overpowering" their levels.
As a starting point set all DAC/ADC levels
to 127 (that's max for the DACs but not for the ADCs).
Above 127 the ADCs have extra gain which you don't need
since your mixer will provide more than enough output level.
In the envy24 monitor mixer mute everything.
In the envy24 patchbay set all analog outputs to 'PCM'.
I'm not sure where to find "127". Is that in the Envy24?
The levels on my Envy24 application have a minimum of "96" and a maximum of
"0".
I see the meters in envy24, the green to orange to red, that the audio
I create only produces about 6 or 7 of those thin green lines (very
close to the bottom).
By mute everything in "envy24 monitor mixer" do you mean in "Monitor
Inputs" and "Monitor PCMs" or just one of them?
I'd think that I should leave the ones I'm using un-muted so the signals send.
I changed the "Patchbay/Router" settings all to PCM Outs now. I did
have 1 & 2 set to "Digital Mix" (L&R) while my Delta 1010's Out 1
and
Out 2 are physically connected to a strip on my mixer set to Main Mix.
However, before I get my monitor speakers I'd like to use my computer
for the headphone monitoring if possible. Maybe the PCM Outs will make
that work.
In Ardour, with the current default general level settings, when I
record audio I only receive a very small "wavelength" graph in the
actual recorded tracks. I'd figure it'd be much larger.
1. The input gains on the mixer (for mics and other
sources). Getting this right has nothing to do with
the Delta 1010 or the PC. Do this first, using the
mixer's meters and headphone monitoring. The mixer
has more than enough gain and control range to get
this right.
I'm currently only testing levels for mics. I do have other sources
connected to the mixer, Line Ins from guitar amps Line Outs for
example, but I'll work with those after I get the microphones leveled
out.
Maybe I should crank my mixer "gains" even higher (currently ~35 or
~40 out of 60 on gain levels). :-\ The level meter thing is only
showing 30 or 20 (not going up to "0"/"Level Set").
2. The gains between your mixer and the digital
world.
These are set with the envy24 DAC and ADC gains, see
higher. Once set never touch them again (since you can
do everything on the mixer), and only use Ardour's
level meters.
Good to know about not messing with the envy24 gains once they're set.
Do I have to load the envy24 program every time I record (kind of like
JACK), even if I don't make adjustments to envy24's settings?
As a side note, regarding Ardour, every time it loads I get a warning
"your system has a limit for maximum amount of locked memory". Should
I change something there?
Hmm, I just tested playback with a quick recording sample I made and
it won't play back via the computer, I have to go back to the Main Mix
on the Mixer. That's okay though. Not a big deal. Ultimately (when I
get monitor speakers) I'd like to use the mixer's main mix for
playback audio anyway.
Okay this is weird... levels are sounding pretty good but maybe
because I have things set really high? The envy24 channels are set to
about 20 (96=min, 0=max). During playback, the envy24 "Monitor PCMs"
only read 1 or 2 green bars.
4:37 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:33:22PM -0600, Ectropic Harmony wrote:
??
In the 'Analog Volume' tab.
There's
nothing wrong with turning them up as high as necessary.
This is good to hear. I have only hesitated to turn the "gains" up any
higher because of fear of "overpowering" their levels. As a starting
point set all DAC/ADC levels
to 127 (that's max for the DACs but not for the ADCs).
Above 127 the ADCs have extra gain which you don't need
since your mixer will provide more than enough output level.
In the envy24 monitor mixer mute everything.
In the envy24 patchbay set all analog outputs to 'PCM'.
I'm not sure where to find "127". Is that in the Envy24? The levels on my Envy24 application have a minimum of
"96" and a maximum of "0".
That's the monitor mixer (first two tabs). Set them
all to '96' and muted. If you want just 8 independent
inputs and outputs you don't use this mixer. The meters
can occasionally be useful to check if signals are
present, but normally you wouldn't use them.
Most distros will save the settings when you shutdown
the computer and re-apply then when booting. If that's
the case you don't need envy24control anymore once things
are set up correctly.
By mute everything in "envy24 monitor mixer"
do you mean in "Monitor
Inputs" and "Monitor PCMs" or just one of them?
Both.
I'd think that I should leave the ones I'm
using un-muted so the signals send.
No, just mute them all. Mute here means they won't appear in
the stereo mix that can be made internally in the soundcard.
I changed the "Patchbay/Router" settings all
to PCM Outs now. I did
have 1 & 2 set to "Digital Mix" (L&R) while my Delta 1010's Out 1
and
Out 2 are physically connected to a strip on my mixer set to Main Mix.
However, before I get my monitor speakers I'd like to use my computer
for the headphone monitoring if possible. Maybe the PCM Outs will make
that work.
'PCM' means that the analog outputs will be the first
8 digital signals from the computer. 'Digital Mix' is
the output of the monitor mixer.
In Ardour, with the current default general level
settings, when I
record audio I only receive a very small "wavelength" graph in the
actual recorded tracks. I'd figure it'd be much larger.
It's not meant for level metering. Use the meters !
Maybe I should crank my mixer "gains" even
higher (currently ~35 or
~40 out of 60 on gain levels). :-\ The level meter thing is only
showing 30 or 20 (not going up to "0"/"Level Set").
Then turn up the gains, nothing is going to explode.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
5:03 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 09:33:36PM +0100, fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
Just to underline that, gain controls are usually pots
that *attentuate* the signal. The top setting (danger!
ohnoes!) is just letting the signal through with no
attenuation.
Here is ASCII art of a variable resistor (pot). You can
see the wiper that varies the resistance.
___
| |
-------+mwmwmwmw------
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:33:22PM -0600, Ectropic
Harmony wrote:
??
[...]
There's nothing wrong with turning them up as high as necessary.
This is good to hear. I have only hesitated to turn the "gains" up any
higher because of fear of "overpowering" their levels. Maybe I should
crank my mixer "gains" even higher (currently ~35 or
~40 out of 60 on gain levels). :-\ The level meter thing is only
showing 30 or 20 (not going up to "0"/"Level Set").
Then turn up the gains, nothing is going to explode. Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
Joel Roth
5:32 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:02:58AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
Just to underline that, gain controls are usually
pots
that *attentuate* the signal. The top setting (danger!
ohnoes!) is just letting the signal through with no
attenuation.
That would be true for most mixer faders and
for normal volume controls. But in that case
it's not done as in your drawing, but by using
the pot as a voltage divider:
____
in |
r
r
r______
r out
r
r
____|______
ground
The exception is the gain control in a mic
preamp where the pot is normally used as a
variable resistance (as in your drawing),
but there it is part of the feedback circuit.
There's normally no attenuation in the signal
path (except for a -20dB pad or something
similar).
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
5:19 p.m.
This is good
to hear. I have only hesitated to turn the "gains" up any
higher because of fear of "overpowering" their levels.
?? I'm not
sure where to find "127". Is that in the Envy24?
In the 'Analog Volume' tab. That's the monitor mixer (first two tabs). Set
them
all to '96' and muted. If you want just 8 independent
inputs and outputs you don't use this mixer.
Okay, I've muted all of them and set to minimum levels ("96").
I haven't done a test recording/playback with that set like that but I
hope it'll still work. (I don't have an "Analog Volume" tab.)
I'm currently looking at using 8 independent inputs, given that's the
limit available on the Delta 1010, well the limit as far as 1/4" TRS
ins/outs.
Though, my motherboard also has 8 audio channels, I don't know if
that's factoring into any of this. I thought I was bypassing the mobo
audio though. JACK's using the Delta 1010.
Most distros will save the settings when you shutdown
the computer and re-apply then when booting. If that's
the case you don't need envy24control anymore once things
are set up correctly.
I am running Ubuntu Studio 9.10. Not really sure if it's re-applying
settings at boot.
I'll see about simply not loading envy24 next at next boot and see how
things respond.
In Ardour,
with the current default general level settings, when I
record audio I only receive a very small "wavelength" graph in the
actual recorded tracks. I'd figure it'd be much larger.
It's not meant for level metering. Use the meters ! Maybe I should
crank my mixer "gains" even higher (currently ~35 or
~40 out of 60 on gain levels). :-\ The level meter thing is only
showing 30 or 20 (not going up to "0"/"Level Set").
Then turn up the gains, nothing is going to explode. 
5:39 p.m.
Ectropic Harmony:
...
There isn't an "Analog Volume" tab on my
envy24.
I have these tabs:
Monitor Inputs; Monitor PCMs; Patchbay/Router; Hardware Settings;
Profiles; About
I have the "Analog Volume" between the "Hardware Settings" and
"Profiles".
The app's window's title bar reads:
Envy24 Control Utility 0.6.0 (M Audio Delta 1010 at 0xcc00, irq17)
Mine reads:
Envy24 Control Utility 0.6.0 (M Audio Delta 1010LT at 0xd400, irq16)
Regards,
/Karl
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Hammar Aspö Data karl(a)aspodata.se
Lilla Aspö 148 Networks
S-742 94 Östhammar +46 173 140 57 Computers
Sweden +46 70 511 97 84 Consulting
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
27 Jan
27 Jan
5:44 p.m.
Am Dienstag 26 Januar 2010 22:39:19 schrieb Karl Hammar:
Ectropic Harmony:
...
According to this posting, it looks like the Delta 1010(without LT) indeed
doesn't have these ADC/DAC volume controls:
http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/2007-August/013669.html
Edgar
There isn't an "Analog Volume" tab
on my envy24.
I have these tabs:
Monitor Inputs; Monitor PCMs; Patchbay/Router; Hardware Settings;
Profiles; About
I have the "Analog Volume" between the "Hardware Settings" and
"Profiles".
The app's window's title bar reads:
Envy24 Control Utility 0.6.0 (M Audio Delta 1010 at 0xcc00, irq17)
Mine reads:
Envy24 Control Utility 0.6.0 (M Audio Delta 1010LT at 0xd400, irq16) 
6:11 p.m.
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:44:36 +0100
Edgar Aichinger <edogawa(a)aon.at> wrote:
Am Dienstag 26 Januar 2010 22:39:19 schrieb Karl
Hammar:
I can confirm that as well... sorry, I thought that was clear early on
in this thread.
Ectropic Harmony:
...
> There isn't an "Analog Volume" tab on my envy24.
>
According to this posting, it looks like the Delta 1010(without LT)
indeed doesn't have these ADC/DAC volume controls:
http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/2007-August/013669.html 
26 Jan
26 Jan
1:05 p.m.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Ectropic Harmony <
ectropic.harmony(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I do plan on getting monitor speakers, and I do have
normal computer
speakers (Harmon-Kardon "2.1", not sure how I could implement those in
this set-up) but I'll need to otherwise make do with headphones for
now.
I strongly recommend setting up the monitors ASAP -- they'll sound very
different from headphones. Even just a pair of old, but decent, home stereo
speakers will do the job nicely -- you should be able to pick some up for
pennies at a thrift store or yard sale.
5417
days inactive
5426
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
24 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
David Santamauro -
drew Roberts -
Ectropic Harmony -
Edgar Aichinger -
Emiliano Grilli -
fons＠kokkinizita.net -
Joel Roth -
karl＠aspodata.se -
martin.peach＠sympatico.ca -
micromoog -
Monty Montgomery -
Paul Davis -
Scott -
Scott Ecker