31 Jan
2019
31 Jan
'19
1:22 p.m.
On 2019-01-31 10:03:56 (+0100), al3xu5 / dotcommon wrote:
Being systemd a complete nightmare (which turns your
machine to a
windows-like system), simply stop using it and migrate to a
systemd-free system.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion I guess, but how on
earth does this
help with the question at hand?
If you're plainly here to rant about how bad systemd is (or rave about
how great your particular distro is), maybe find another mailing list to
do so.
It's getting quite annoying (given your recent track record on that
particular topic) and really doesn't provide any useful information
regarding the original topic, especially as you fail to supply
information on why and how a jackd-as-a-daemon-setup on Devuan could be
considered more suitable or would even look like. Please be constructive
and provide examples instead of bad-mouthing other people's work.
e.g. "Hey look, this is how we do things on Devuan - without systemd -
to have jackd start as a daemon. You can also use that instead of
Raspbian."
Doesn't hurt, does it?
Best,
David
--
https://sleepmap.de
31 Jan
31 Jan
1:57 p.m.
New subject: systemd woes with jackd and its permissions (raspbian)
On Thu, 2019-01-31 at 12:22 +0100, David Runge wrote:
On 2019-01-31 10:03:56 (+0100), al3xu5 / dotcommon
wrote:
Somebody reported an opinion based upon personal experiences and tried
to provide a pointer that might be helpful. It's annoying to read that
"not on that mailing list" and smartypants rants from you again and
again on several mailing lists, since you became an Arch TU and admin of
Arch proaudio. How do your rants helps either? Apart from this, is there
any Linux audio related mailing list, where this anti-systemd user would
have freedom of speech, without receiving such an email from you?
However, I recommend to stay with systemd, even while I dislike it
myself. The reason to stay with systemd is very simple, it's seemingly
the most used Linux init system, so we could expect less trouble, as
long as we don't have special needs related to the init system in
general. Most Linux software developers most likely tend to use systemd,
too and if something should fail, there are more people able to help,
than when using a less used init system. Even if not using systemd
_would_ make it easier for the OP to solve one problem, a side effect
_could_ be, that issues with other init processes _could_ become harder
to solve.
Being systemd a complete nightmare (which turns
your machine to a
windows-like system), simply stop using it and migrate to a
systemd-free system.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion I guess, but how on
earth does this
help with the question at hand?
If you're plainly here to rant about how bad systemd is (or rave about
how great your particular distro is), maybe find another mailing list to
do so.
It's getting quite annoying (given your recent track record on that
particular topic) and really doesn't provide any useful information
regarding the original topic, especially as you fail to supply
information on why and how a jackd-as-a-daemon-setup on Devuan could be
considered more suitable or would even look like. Please be constructive
and provide examples instead of bad-mouthing other people's work.
e.g. "Hey look, this is how we do things on Devuan - without systemd -
to have jackd start as a daemon. You can also use that instead of
Raspbian."
Doesn't hurt, does it?
3:06 p.m.
New subject: systemd woes with jackd and its permissions (raspbian)
On 2019-01-31 12:57:19 (+0100), Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Somebody reported an opinion based upon personal
experiences and tried
to provide a pointer that might be helpful. It's annoying to read that
"not on that mailing list" and smartypants rants from you again and
again on several mailing lists, since you became an Arch TU and admin
of Arch proaudio. How do your rants helps either? Apart from this, is
there any Linux audio related mailing list, where this anti-systemd
user would have freedom of speech, without receiving such an email
from you?
Ralf, I suggest even you stay on topic, instead of (again) reverting to
personal attacks (I have warned you about this before).
There is no need for you to start a meta-rant about your personal issues
with other people, that are solely based on your misbehavior and
inferiority complex. For the sake of all of us: Get your act together.
Regarding your attempt of making this about some sort of free speech
issue: "anti-systemd", "anti-devuan", "anti-whatever" are
all a symptom
of treating a piece of software (or a distribution) like a religion.
Noone wants to know what you pray to. Noone likes to be "converted".
If you see clear advantages in something, point it out. There's nothing
more needed. It's actually quite appalling to make it about "the other
thing sucks, mine is so much better".
This is not what this mailing list is about. It's about helping users of
free audio software with their setup, work flow, etc. and not about your
or anyone's personal issues. Please, stop using it as your dumping
ground.
--
https://sleepmap.de
4:10 p.m.
New subject: systemd woes with jackd and its permissions (raspbian)
On Thu, 2019-01-31 at 14:06 +0100, David Runge wrote:
Ralf, I suggest even you stay on topic, instead of
(again) reverting to
personal attacks (I have warned you about this before).
I was not involved. It is something between you and another user.
Actually you attacked another user. It's ok as long as you are doing it?
If you see clear advantages in something, point it
out.
Actually I did this. I pointed out why I recommend to stay with systemd.
If you wouldn't have attacked the other subscriber, I wouldn't have
written anything more.
4:18 p.m.
New subject: systemd woes with jackd and its permissions (raspbian)
David Runge <dave(a)sleepmap.de> writes:
Regarding your attempt of making this about some sort
of free speech
issue: "anti-systemd", "anti-devuan", "anti-whatever" are
all a
symptom of treating a piece of software (or a distribution) like a
religion.
Actually, I'd very much like to treat systemd less like a religion and
more like software. However, its documentation is so abysmally lousy
and non-standard that to achieve anything, you have to ask some of its
practitioners for a recipe. You won't find anything useful to that
purpose in the man pages or other installable documentation sources.
This is not what this mailing list is about. It's
about helping users
of free audio software with their setup, work flow, etc. and not about
your or anyone's personal issues. Please, stop using it as your
dumping ground.
Mailing lists are not really for hand-holding every single user through
stuff that should be properly documented in the first place. For
software-specific mailing lists, when they are used for that purpose
that has the side effect of the developers eventually getting tired and
choosing to improve the documentation instead or making use of the
program more simple. That won't be the case with systemd on this list
because this list is not where the systemd developers live.
There is not much sense in starting a rant every time nevertheless. But
systemd has a lot of its religious-war starting potential exactly
because it, like a religion, wants initiation. You cannot command its
services without getting help by other practitioners.
In contrast, the SysV Init system is more a set of conventions about
where to write what scripts than actual software. You can make changes
to it rather transparently and rather fast without knowledge exceeding
what you'd need for using/running UNIX anyway. And its documented in
man pages, so it does not similarly divide the world into its disciples
and others.
For maintaining small embedded systems where one person is mainly
responsible for keeping the whole thing working, that's an advantage.
--
David Kastrup
1 Feb
1 Feb
3:04 p.m.
New subject: systemd woes with jackd and its permissions (raspbian)
Il giorno giovedì 31/01/2019 12:22:48 +0100
David Runge <dave(a)sleepmap.de> ha scritto:
On 2019-01-31 10:03:56 (+0100), al3xu5 / dotcommon
wrote:
First of all, I will not reply on the personal level, either because I do not
think it's worth it, and also because I prefer to let each one make his own
evaluations about the content and motivations behind the personal
considerations that are addressed to me.
I would just like to specify that:
- I am not involved in any way and I have no personal interest either with
Devuan or with any other distribution;
- that I have no "religious" prejudice against systemd: so much so that I
recognize without problems that it is necessary to improve the init systems and
that in this sense a project like systemd is shared, but I do not understand
why I should not be able to think and say that for me its implementation (which
is actually much more extensive and "intrusive" than just the init system) is
wrong in many respects;
- I do not understand why we can not discuss the pros and cons of a
distribution or any software with respect to the audio subsystem, as we do, for
example, to WM and DM or to the graphic software management and configuration
interfaces .
Ok. I have already said too much and I apologize if I have bored or wasted any
time who has read so far. For me, this discussion is closed.
Regards
--
al3xu5 / dotcommon
Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and any industrial design restrictions.
______________________________________________________________________
Being systemd a complete nightmare (which turns
your machine to a
windows-like system), simply stop using it and migrate to a
systemd-free system.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion I guess, [...]
1913
days inactive
1914
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
al3xu5 / dotcommon -
David Kastrup -
David Runge -
Ralf Mardorf