20 Apr
2011
20 Apr
'11
6:05 p.m.
Hi,
I want to ask what behaviours users expect to hear regarding the voice
operations of monophonic and polyphonic synths/samplers. I need to get
a good understanding and my limited experience with real
synths/samplers isn't helping much when it comes to getting the
concepts/behaviours straight enough in my head to get down to coding them.
---
1) Monophonic
in the event a note is playing and a new note is played, would you expect
a) the envelope release stage of the old note to continue while the
new note plays?
b) the old note to cut and the new note play?
2) Polyphonic - This is in terms of a sampler whose playback mode is
'Singleshot' where the sample is played back in full regardless of
note-off events. Would you expect the retriggering of the same note
within time < sample-duration to cause:
a) a second instance of the sample to play back simultaneously (albeit
beginning and ending later in time) without affecting the first?
b) playback of the first instance to stop before being retriggered as
the second (if we're going to talk about first and second)?
---
I would expect to be able to have a choice between a and b in both
questions 1 and 2 above. But do general users? Should I expect them to
go through the same confusion I have to learn the subtle differences
(subtle to untrained ears at least).
The program in question is Petri-Foo. I made comparisons between it
and Specimen and found differences. I'm trying to settles these. I
arrived at the conclusion there could be a fourth voice mode as the
polyphony behaviour in Petri-Foo/Specimen is that of 2a above but 2b
makes more sense in terms of real instruments.
I looked also at Phasex which has a multitude of monophonic and
polyphonic modes (of which MonoMulti is particularly interesting) but
I was unable to identify differences between some of them.
Thanks,
James.
20 Apr
20 Apr
6:16 p.m.
Hello James!
In mono mode: You very often - at least with analogue/virtual analogue synth
you have the choice between retrigger and no retrigger. It is usually a
seperate button/function.
You could have the same choice for polyphonic mode. It depends on the
instrument. With a drumkit cymbal, I'd expect the first note to completely
play through. With a guitar I wouldn't. It's a pitty you only have straight
forward play through to the end and not stop the sound according to its
envelope (release phase). But maybe in time...
I hope that helps.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
6:17 p.m.
P.S.: In mono mode, some synths (especially va and real analogues) sometimes
offer note priority (so last note, lowest note or highest note). So you have
to evaluate. Last note is simple. Lowest note, requires to check if ten new
note is lower than the current one. The same goes for higehst note.
Bye bye
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
9:05 p.m.
James Morris wrote:
1) Monophonic
in the event a note is playing and a new note is played, would you expect
a) the envelope release stage of the old note to continue while the
new note plays?
Never, because from the monosynths (hardware and software) I've got and
my understanding of synths, I wouldn't consider that monophonic
behaviour. To my mind that would be exhibiting two-note polyphony (not
duophony) as it would be allowing two notes to sound at once, the
release of one overlapping the attack of another.
Depending on the architecture/settings of the synth (and assuming legato
playing, as stated in the question) I would expect either the envelope
to retrigger when the new note is played, or the SUSTAIN stage of the
old note to continue whilst the new note sounds and the release stage to
only activate when I release the last note (i.e. the envelope doesn't
retrigger until the key is fully released).
Having said that, reading the manual, I have a synth which exhibits a
third behaviour, dubbed legato off, where the envelope is retriggered
from the current envelope level (whichever ADSR stage it is at), rather
than retriggered from 0 V every time. This is the Moog Little Phatty. To
be honest, I only ever use the LP in legato mode.
I have two synths that are switchable between legato and retrigger: one
will only ever get used in retrigger because it would be quite a pain in
the arse to change the settings and the other I think so far has only
ever been used in legato mode -- it just suits the way I play, if I want
retriggering, I play staccato and tweak the release to suit the speed of
playing.
Having said that, I have one synth that only retriggers (ARP Axxe) and I
just live with it, but where I have the option I tend to prefer legato
behaviour.
b) the old note to cut and the new note play?
Yes, when considering the pitch (see my first comment above regarding
monophonic behaviour) with one caveat. That is, assuming that the second
note is capable of triggering under the note priority the synth is set
to. (The Axxe actually has the behaviour that if you play notes above
the one you're holding, it will retrigger the note you're holding, being
low note priority.)
In terms of the filter envelope and amp envelope (and any other
envelopes there may be) properties of the note, as stated above, it
depends on whether the synth is set to retrigger the envelopes every
time a note is pressed.
2) Polyphonic - This is in terms of a sampler whose playback mode is
'Singleshot' where the sample is played back in full regardless of
note-off events. Would you expect the retriggering of the same note
within time < sample-duration to cause:
a) a second instance of the sample to play back simultaneously (albeit
beginning and ending later in time) without affecting the first?
b) playback of the first instance to stop before being retriggered as
the second (if we're going to talk about first and second)?
Sorry, I've no experience with single-shot samples, so can't comment.
---
I would expect to be able to have a choice between a and b in both
questions 1 and 2 above. But do general users? Should I expect them to
go through the same confusion I have to learn the subtle differences
(subtle to untrained ears at least).
For 1b, your expectation is a nicety, sure. For 1a, I wouldn't expect
that choice.
As always, other people's fuel consumption may vary.
Hope this helps.
Q
22 Apr
22 Apr
11:32 p.m.
Hi Q and Julien,
Thanks for your responses, useful to hear a few things
confirmed/denied. Sorry for not replying sooner, been busy on
everything but this. hopefully get back to it soon.
cheers,
James.
4965
days inactive
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days old
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4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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James Morris -
Julien Claassen -
Q