13 Jan
2009
13 Jan
'09
4:54 a.m.
Is it normal for it to have more-or-less constant low-frequency pops and
crackles while playing quiet passages, and occasional louder pops even
in louder passages? These are files that were digitally generated
(sample recordings of the Aeolus organ synthesizer) or ripped from CDs,
so they weren't analog recordings that might have such additional
natural sounds.
TIA.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
13 Jan
13 Jan
5:59 a.m.
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:53 AM, david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Is it normal for it to have more-or-less constant
low-frequency pops and
crackles while playing quiet passages, and occasional louder pops even
in louder passages? These are files that were digitally generated
(sample recordings of the Aeolus organ synthesizer) or ripped from CDs,
so they weren't analog recordings that might have such additional
natural sounds.
TIA.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Try the "test audio and midi" menu item in puredata, with the test
signal on the "-40" setting (or some other low level reference signal
of your choosing). If you get the same low frequency pops and static,
it is your sound card or driver (most likely the card). From your
description it could be a ground loop - does it go away if the sound
card is attached to a laptop on battery power?
14 Jan
14 Jan
3:04 a.m.
Justin Smith wrote:
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:53 AM, david
<gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion about it being a ground loop. I tried it at
home here with the laptop on battery power - with no change.
At my office, there was no noise problem at all.
The difference is that at home I was plugging the card into an powered
external USB hub (ZoneNet 7-port USB2). I reshuffled USB connectors to
give the sound card its own USB port and the noise went away.
Lovely sounding card - amazing how the Intel HDA sound chip makes the
sound muddy, murky and distorted ...
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
Is it normal for it to have more-or-less constant
low-frequency pops and
crackles while playing quiet passages, and occasional louder pops even
in louder passages? These are files that were digitally generated
(sample recordings of the Aeolus organ synthesizer) or ripped from CDs,
so they weren't analog recordings that might have such additional
natural sounds.
Try the "test audio and midi" menu item in puredata, with the test
signal on the "-40" setting (or some other low level reference signal
of your choosing). If you get the same low frequency pops and static,
it is your sound card or driver (most likely the card). From your
description it could be a ground loop - does it go away if the sound
card is attached to a laptop on battery power? 
3:38 a.m.
On Wednesday 14 January 2009 08:03:29 david wrote:
Lovely sounding card - amazing how the Intel HDA sound
chip makes the
sound muddy, murky and distorted ...
You will be amazed how bad the behringer sounds when you compare it to a
tascam or presonus or rme device ;-)
Probably not so much with "colourization" but more with noise and high-
frequency distortion...
Arnold
4:41 a.m.
Arnold Krille wrote:
On Wednesday 14 January 2009 08:03:29 david wrote:
Well, I don't hear any noise, even listening through a pair of
Sennheiser HD280 Pros. And my high-frequency hearing disappeared 30
years ago when I was playing in a rock band (stupid lead guitarist!) and
listening to pipe organs ... ;-)
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
Lovely sounding card - amazing how the Intel HDA
sound chip makes the
sound muddy, murky and distorted ...
You will be amazed how bad the behringer sounds when you compare it to a
tascam or presonus or rme device ;-)
Probably not so much with "colourization" but more with noise and high-
frequency distortion... 
5:12 a.m.
aw geez!
ok lets get some stuff straight because I always see this on the Linux
Audio 'CHATTER'
Misconception #1) Other than SSL, Neve and RME almost ALL other audio
cards have the same 2 dollar chip and 3 dollar CODEC and 1 dollar IC.
RME and high end mfg have boutique stuff that is roughly about 80.00
Presonus, M-Audio etc... all have the exact same parts....
The real way the noise gets diminished is TRICKS OF THE TRADE
way #1 6 mil cuts on a board or better
#2 actual routing of lines and parts placement on board
#3 putting regulators on noisy areas to cut noise
#4 actual bath taken to wash boards that stop the lines from heating
up and touching or making noise
#5 voltage/heat
#6 step down voltage or step up voltage regulators
#7 NOISY POTS
#8 read #1-#7
Also, to defend the Intel HD CODEC that is the same chip inside the Macs....
Also, that CODEC rocks as when we bump tracks out of Pro Tools we
actually run the output into Indamixx
to take advantage of 32bit and Ardour which sounds A HELL OF A LOT
BETTER than the crappy tin can sound we get out of Pro tools ...
Lastly, I did a remix a few months ago and I mixed my entire track on
Indamixx and when I went to bounce it to two track pass I compared it
to our (2) ten thousand dollar Neve Pre's and other than exciting the
track and expanding deeper fringe sounds, I COULD NOT tell the
difference..neither could Dr. Dre's engineer or Dr. Dre's DJ both who
have us run this setup for them....
Your actual poor capturing of audio and improper room with no bass
traps no pink noise indicator and no EQing of room will greatly affect
your songs much more than any audio card... plus if you do not know
how to actually mix down a track your song will sound awful no matter
how much money you got and how expensive your card is.. the only
difference is you could technically out spend your lack of knowing
what you are doing up to a certain point!
cheers!
Ron
www.indamixx.com
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
On Wednesday 14 January 2009 08:03:29 david wrote:
Lovely sounding card - amazing how the Intel HDA
sound chip makes the
sound muddy, murky and distorted ...
You will be amazed how bad the behringer sounds when you compare it to a
tascam or presonus or rme device ;-)
Probably not so much with "colourization" but more with noise and high-
frequency distortion...
Arnold
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Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
6:10 a.m.
On Wednesday 14 January 2009 10:12:52 you wrote:
Misconception #1) Other than SSL, Neve and RME almost
ALL other audio
cards have the same 2 dollar chip and 3 dollar CODEC and 1 dollar IC.
RME and high end mfg have boutique stuff that is roughly about 80.00
Presonus, M-Audio etc... all have the exact same parts....
Which might be true for the digital part. But my general experience with that
specific manufacturer is that the over-all design both in electronics and in
other hardware is not as good as the originals they are copying. Begins with
cheaper plastics for the knobs, goes on with not-top-of-the-line pre-amplifiers
and doesn't end with cross-talk from the pfl-listening into the pre-fader-aux
(which is really strange as these should be far enough on the layout?). I
forgot to mention that their new mixing consoles have brain-dead logic (why
would I want to mute a channel "after" the pre-fader-aux???) and that all
their mixing consoles are worn out after two years of once-a-week usage. Oh,
and the EQ's are really strange.
So while they might have the same audio-chipset, they still loose a lot
quality in everything else. And while the might for example use the same
firewire chipset in some of their products, they still use it in a kind-of non-
standard way. Ask ppalmers why their product isn't working out-of-the-box with
freebob.
Your list of ways to diminish noise sounds as if this manufacturer really
should read it...
Apart from very few (and older) devices that seem to be worth the money (the
headphone-amp seems to be a standard and the digital mixing-console isn't bad
for that price) the rule of thumb "don't buy behringer" is a pretty good
rule
unless you are on a _very_ tight budget.
This sounds like a lot of ranting (and it is) but I have used their devices
long enough to know how cheap they are. And I decided not to buy them for my
private stuff for a good reason.
Have fun,
Arnold
7:48 a.m.
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:10:28AM +0100, Arnold Krille wrote:
Which might be true for the digital part. But my
general experience with that
specific manufacturer is that the over-all design both in electronics and in
other hardware is not as good as the originals they are copying. Begins with
cheaper plastics for the knobs, goes on with not-top-of-the-line pre-amplifiers
and doesn't end with cross-talk from the pfl-listening into the pre-fader-aux
Last year I did some equivalent input noise measurements on
the mic inputs of various interfaces, including a Behringer
Ultragain Pro 8.
To my surprise, noise level was not bad at all _at full gain_.
But the spectrum at max gain, which should be flat, had some
strange bumps (I really wonder how they do it). Also, a good
mic preamp should have roughly the same EIN over a range
of at least 20 dB below max gain, but Behringer's goes up
very fast once you move the gain knob. This indicates very
bad analog design. And then there are the cheap gain pots
with their silly mechanical detents. Moving one notch down
can give you anything between -5 and -15 dB below the max,
and in the upper range even matching to channels for a
stereo mic is almost impossible. Again this is bad design.
Ciao,
--
FA
Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica
Parma, Italia
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
9:45 a.m.
Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:10:28AM +0100, Arnold
Krille wrote:
Also about a year ago I measured frequency response, total harmonic
distortion (over the full dynamic range) and noise floor for a number of
aduio interfaces, including Behringer Ultragain Pro 8 digital, and RME
ADI8 Pro. I did only look at technical performance, not at handling. The
difference between those two was surprisingly small, except for the THD,
which was significantly higher for Behringer especially at high gain. I
did not observe extremely strange frequency responses at the Behringer,
only a small ripple (below 0.3 dB). I cannot find the data right now. If
I find it I can send it to the list (or present it at LAC, my
presentation there will include delay measurements of audio devices anyway).
Giso
Which might be true for the digital part. But my
general experience with that
specific manufacturer is that the over-all design both in electronics and in
other hardware is not as good as the originals they are copying. Begins with
cheaper plastics for the knobs, goes on with not-top-of-the-line pre-amplifiers
and doesn't end with cross-talk from the pfl-listening into the pre-fader-aux
Last year I did some equivalent input noise measurements on
the mic inputs of various interfaces, including a Behringer
Ultragain Pro 8.
To my surprise, noise level was not bad at all _at full gain_.
But the spectrum at max gain, which should be flat, had some
strange bumps (I really wonder how they do it). Also, a good
mic preamp should have roughly the same EIN over a range
of at least 20 dB below max gain, but Behringer's goes up
very fast once you move the gain knob. This indicates very
bad analog design. And then there are the cheap gain pots
with their silly mechanical detents. Moving one notch down
can give you anything between -5 and -15 dB below the max,
and in the upper range even matching to channels for a
stereo mic is almost impossible. Again this is bad design.
5987
days inactive
5988
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Arnold Krille -
david -
Fons Adriaensen -
Giso Grimm -
Justin Smith -
Ronald Stewart