Hi Julien, do you know the band Sky? On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 17:09 +0200, Julien Claassen wrote: * The performing band consists of a typical 70s band (drums, bass, keyboards and guitar) and orchestral instruments (piano, brass, strings, flute, clarinet and saxophone * The tracks are all reworks of classical pieces: o Tschaikowsky's Piano concerto Nr.1 in b-flat o Felix Mendelssohn's Piano Concerto Nr.1 (Opus 25 in G-minor) o Franz Liszt's Piano Concerto Nr.1 in e-flat o Mozart's Piano Concerto KV 426 o Edward Grieg's Piano Concerto in a-minor o an adaptation of a Paganini etude * The genre is something between progrock, funk and 70s dance music. I hate this music, but I suspect it could be the band "Sky". I'm a fan of the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields and Sir Neville Marriner. I can recommend Mozart's Requiem (Philips Classic Productions 1991. Note! I hate Mozart too, but I love this recording. The Academy of St. Martin in the Fields and Sir Neville Marriner are geniuses.) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_%28Band%29 When I was a child I bought the Sky record including Bach's Toccata and Fuge d-Moll BWV 565 and I give it back to the record dealer. He gave me back the money :). I'm not sure, but at least it sounded very similar. Hth, Ralf

On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 22:13 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Before you lapidate me, read what Miles Dewey Davis III said about such kind of repeating etc. ;). Tastes differ :). Ralf

Hm, if it was Bach you were discussing I could chime in. That way, I only ever bought one CD of Mozart's music and that was the aforementioned piano concert. But from a few Harmonia Mundi recordings I've heard, I suppose they're always worth a listen. Sorry, rambling away down the street and round the corner. But there was a beautiful Gesualdo recording. I couldn\'t somehow manage to find it here in Germany. that's a slight problem, if such things are only available in rance or the French speaking world, if they aren't considered to be the big "hits" of that time. Pardong my - ehem - French. :-) Sorry, to waiste bytes here... Julien -------- Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles) ======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ======== http://ltsb.sourceforge.net the Linux TextBased Studio guide ======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: ======= http://www.juliencoder.de

On 06/22/2011 11:08 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: La Petite Bande, Sigiswald Kuijken - a belgium barok orchestra - did an amazing interpretation of it as well. It's fast but to too rushed. Rex Tremendae Majestatis.

On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 21:50 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: Tuning and tempo for classical music depends to the generation. I'm unable to listen to directors, e.g. Herbert von Karajan, who were children of their times. IMO it's not only the tempo, a major issue for my taste is the tuning. I prefer 'A' close to 440 Hz. I'm a child from the 80's, born 1966. I guess there are less classical recordings close to 440 Hz. And of cause, the faster, the better. But IMO this is regarding to the world we are living in today.

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 00:20 +0200, Julien Claassen wrote: I'm far away of having absolute hearing. I don't have it too. The funny thing is, that a lot of classical recordings IMO are to muddy, even while the tuning is higher than 440 Hz. I guess the tuning became higher and higher to avoid a muddy sound, IMO a step in the wrong direction, since it became much to high, very audible even when being far away of absolute hearing. I don't listen to classical live music, I very seldom listen to classical recordings, but at least for recordings I would prefer 440 Hz or even lower and adding more brilliance by engineering, instead of tunings > 440 Hz. Again, I'm a child from the 80's, generation x, drop the guitar's e to d (Baroque ;) and give the sound brilliance by using the bridge pick up. Unfortunately violins don't have different pick ups ;). Paradox, since I guess classical music shouldn't be mixed as pop music should be mixed. Hehe, not my problem, since I'm a pop and not a classical musician :). Btw. I like the temperament for guitars by the Boss TU-12H, IIRC Fmit or another Linux tuner is close to my taste too. I guess a piano tuned by those tuners would sound disgusting, but I might be mistaken. But anyway, it's hard to tune without having a reference point, such as a tuning fork. But I guess we are able to recognise the character of a tuning. Btw. without a reference point a guitarist will be able to tune the guitar within +- one half step, regarding to the traction of the strings. We might not be able to hear it, but we feel the traction of the strings.

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 01:19:01AM +0200, Julien Claassen wrote: If things sound muddy it's usually one of too much reverb, sloppy playing, or the orchestra/ensemble being too big for the type of music being performed. Tuning has little or nothing to do with it. Many recordings (and not only of renaissance and baroque music) have way too much reverb on them. Just some days ago I heard a recent recording of Beethoven string quartets produced with something halfway between a church and a longish vocal plate reverb - absolutely horrible. This is chamber music... Quite right. But it doesn't have to be 'purist' either. I won't hesitate to use a little EQ or even some gentle compression if it helps, and sometimes it does. But not the amounts that are common for other types of music. You may be surprised that Von Karajan was known for his interfering with the recording technique and forcing his kind of 'production sound'... and not always for the better. Ciao, -- FA

On Thursday 23 June 2011 02:08:02 Fons Adriaensen wrote: Actually I am not surprised by that, after all he was Karajan! The name or experience or knowledge from the sound engineer didn't matter... " Whats the difference between Karajan and god? - God doesn't think he is Karajan! " Personally I think I didn't like the Karajan recordings I heard, but I can't really say why and I can't remember how I compared. I know I like my recording of Haydns "Schöpfung" (en: "Creation") conducted by Leonard Bernstein. I don't like my recording of Haydns "Die Jahreszeiten" (en: "The seasons") conducted by Sigiswald Kuijken. But the main reason for this is the audio engineer that mixed the second with to much dynamic range and to much headroom => its not loud enough for most listening environments... Have fun, Arnold

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 00:08 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: Oops, yes, at least the German Wiki says that the strings should sound louder and more rich ("insbesondere weil Saiteninstrumente bei höherer Frequenz durch die höhere Saitenspannung lauter und voller klingen"), so it's not regarding to muddiness. It was my interpretation by not remembering the reason correctly. For some recordings I wonder what they tried to do. Did they try to capture the architecture of the church, or did they try to capture the music. But I won't blame the engineers. I only know how to record in studio halls and school halls with movable walls. I guess live in a church the reverb is impressive, hence I'm able to imagine that it's hard to reduce the loudness of "reverb" mics. I guess it's easy to miss that there's too much reverb during the mastering, since the speakers in the studio can be that good, that it might sound natural.

On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 21:08 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: I take you at your words, since the mastering of, at least the Philips CD I own, isn't perfect, but the musicians and the director did a very good job. I really don't like Mozart, but I like this interpretation. To be fair. If you should be right, the Philips recording I'm referring to was recorded in 1990, perhaps the recording you mentioned was done in 1996. 6 years are a long time. Humans become better from generation to generation, excluding mainstream chart music ;), dunno why they become more worse from generation to generation. Unfortunately people need to earn money to survive. IMO Nigel Kennedy is a very gifted musician, but I never ever will buy or even listen to his recordings, since everything I ever heard was mixed as mainstream chart music, but his playing was very good as far as I was able to listen. Btw. I make very simple pop music myself, I like this, but I don't like mixes of classical music and simple pop music. Just my personal taste. "Cobbler, stick to your trade." Pop is ok, classic is ok, but any kind of cross over until now IMO failed.

On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 23:44 +0200, Julien Claassen wrote: No, I'll try to make at least one song with my new sound card this year ;), that should be half-ok, to at least send it to you off-list ;) ... there are different causes that I can't and or won't have old music online. Today I only make music for my self, not for survival.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:34:29PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Um, really? What about prog-rock? -ken

Hello Ken and Ralf! Ken, I suppose prog-rock can be, what Ralf is not fond of in this area. I only very slightly agree. If a band or artist, just adds a bit of drums and perhaps subtracts a few instruments from an arrangement, it's boring and mostly not to my taste, since they would then focus on the hits. On the other hand there are very nice examples of classical music arranged, slightly recomposed for pop, prog and jazz. From Jeth Rotul's swinged bouree, to Ekseptions classica tunes, to the occasional classical tune interpreted by Symphony X in metal style or Me Kong Delta's interpretations. You just sometiems wonder, what might happen, if you "step" up old music, by adding bass and drums and reworking the rhythm slightly and probably even adding your own rocking bits in the middle. :-) As to the musicians you so "ranted" against Ralf, I think it's too generalised or better seen in too grained a fashion. Dream Theater certainly manage to carry emotion, if they so choose and if it is your kind of harmony or other means. These means must be compatible enough with your liking, musical education to touch you. I - for instance - get touched by Bach's St. Matthew's passion and I have cried at one or two key points. The same wouldn't happen with Mozart's Don Giovanni, although I understand, that it has it's points to get touched. Perhaps not in the same way, but certainly something to take you in. Ijust can't see it. As to gothics and hip hoppers. I'm not sure if you'd do them justice. There are those, who call themselves gothics and just allude to the style of life, which is - I suppose - reasonable and justified. And then there are those, who also enjoy the music of that genre and probably have the added bonus(?) of living the gothic life style. I suppose being a hip hopper always entails liking hip hop. Yet again I'm not sure how many of them are particularly fond of the music and how many might be fond of some political or social subspecies of the genre for its messages. From what I've seen they both can carry meaning, stories and/or emotion and they can do it very well, if they make an effort or just have talent. I suppose it always boils down to that; Are you willing to give a certain impression, transport a certain atmosphere or thing in music and do you have the talent and means in your repertoire to pull it off. And yes of course anyone in any musical genre can gloriously fail at that. :-) Warm regards Julien -------- Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles) ======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ======== http://ltsb.sourceforge.net the Linux TextBased Studio guide ======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: ======= http://www.juliencoder.de

Hello Ralf! having the means, deosn't necessarily mean playing the instruments well, although it helps. :-) It means having the right idea or a fitting composition at the point where it counts. and yes Me Kong Delta isn't classical and pop, but neither is sky necessarily. I'd put them with prog for a start. :-) Well, prog just means "progressive". Warm regards Julien -------- Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles) ======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ======== http://ltsb.sourceforge.net the Linux TextBased Studio guide ======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: ======= http://www.juliencoder.de

Excerpts from S. Massy's message of 2011-06-24 21:59:54 +0200: --- snip --- And because it's fun :) I recently have a lot of fun teaching the little piano playing I know and today had a lot of fun playing "duets" on a single piano. Not the kind of duet anyone would want to listen to, but a great deal of fun when playing. The beat (metronome) + squeaking door (preset synth sound) I played by accident today also was a lot of fun too :) Just saying that playing some music and especially doing so together is a lot of fun and probably one of the main reasons.

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:17:14PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: What makes you call extreme compression levels 'mainstream' ? There's nothing 'main' about it, it's just one of the many niches. Mayby one you are most focussed on, but that doesn't affect its importance. There's lots of alternatives. Ciao, -- FA Do you know what lies on the bottom of the mainstream ? Mediocrity.

Hello Massy! Wisely spoken. I suppose in a way, Iwas trying to say that earlier. :-) Only I have my problems gettng down to the point, especially in such debates. :-( Let's breed some music Julien -------- Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles) ======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ======== http://ltsb.sourceforge.net the Linux TextBased Studio guide ======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: ======= http://www.juliencoder.de

Hi Ralf1 Ich habe gerade eben mal auf amazon ermittelt. Es koennte zwar sein, dass mir das ein oder andere von ihnen gefallen wird, aber sie sind es leider nicht. Der Mix und Sound ist anders, genau wie ihre Besetzung. Ich habe jetzt durch die ersten Alben gehoert, es kann auch nur bis maximal 85 oder 86 sein, denn ab da erinnere ich mich, diese Kasette gehoert zu haben. Nun ja, die Suche geht weiter, aber danke fuer den Tipp. Die Toccata live lade ich mir gerade herunter. Liebe Gruesse Julien -------- Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles) ======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ======== http://ltsb.sourceforge.net the Linux TextBased Studio guide ======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: ======= http://www.juliencoder.de