Thanks for such an in depth explanation. Today will go down as one of those days I actually learned me somethin. | > I don't understand this whole 'drift' thing. If I'm able to listen to a | > previously recorded drum track and record a guitar track over it (in | > sync with the recording) with either card, how is it possible for them | > to be out of sync with each other? | | Peter, | It's easy for people to not see this problem the first time they look at | it, but it's usually not that difficult to explain, given a bit of basic | engineering background. | | All of these sound cards have oscillators on them to allow them to sample | and playback at a given rate, such as 44100 Hz. the problem is that no two | oscillators (or the crystals that drive them) produce EXACTLY 44100 cyles | per second. They are spec'ed to be within a certain tolerance, like 1%, or | +/- 100 parts per million, but the point is that they are not creating | exactly the 'right' number of cycles per second. | | With this in mind, if you have two sound cards (same models, different | models, it doesn't matter) and they run from separate clock sources, then | one of them might be operating at 44099 cyles per second, while the other is | operating at 44101 cycles per second. If this was the case, then (in | differeing by 2 cyles per second) after 22050 seconds they would be out of | sync by one complete second. (The slow one would be one second behind.) | Since the human ear can pick up very minute differences in time, the effect | becomes noticible much more quickly than that though, and unfortunately, | most crystals will be much further off than 1 cycle per second from the | spec. | | The reason you can play the same track back, over and over, and even on | different sound cards, is that while 44100 samples 'represents' on second, | it may not 'take' on second to play back. You ear is pretty insensitive to | the idea that a song played on your CD player in the house takes 3:49.203 | seconds, while in the car it might take 3:49:542 seonds. We are just not | sensitive enough to hear that, although the pitch in the house would be | measureable as slightly higher. | | All this said, it is NOT true that you cannot use two (or more) sound | cards at the same time. You can, but they have to be clocked from the same | clock. you can accomplish this on any pair of sound cards that support the | Word Clock interface, and I've been able to do it over ADAT interfaces with | multiple cards, but that's not for the uninitiated. ;-) It's harder to set | up. | | I hope this helps clarify the physical reasons that this is difficult. | | There is a software reason also. Linux/Alsa will onlt interrface to a | single clock, so clocks being generated by two sound cards are not something | that Alsa is designed to handle. | | Cheers, | Mark | | | | | --__--__-- | | Message: 7 | Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT) | From: Brian Redfern <bredfern(a)calarts.edu> | To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories | Reply-To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | | Well, I use Swami to build my own sound fonts, I have some quite gritty | ones, cause my old band-mate is the producer for The Freestyle Fellowship | (if you haven't heard of them, they've been the underground legends of Hi | Hop for 12 years now). | | Anyways I find Csound to be the tool of choice for serious composition in | a linux only environment. Personally I don't go quite that far, I use muse | and rosegarden to sequnce my midi gear, I have an asrx pro and a korg | electribe s. Unfortunately I've found jack/iiwusynth to be too unstable to | work with. | | Thus I'm using midi and muse to sequence my outboard gear and then I use | broadcast2000 to record the tracks and to overdub acoustic instruments. | | Its not completely linux only, but linux is the only computer os I use in | making my music. | | | | | | On 13 Jul 2003, Hartmut Z Noack wrote: | | > I downloaded the track "nasty valve1" an gave it a listen. | > Hmmm the Intro is quite impressing - lot of personality, cool groove. | > But after 20 seconds or so i hear a GM-Drumkit wich reminds me of a | > Yamaha middleclass PSR-Preset - not that much personality anymore - | > quite plastic i must say. | > I do not blame this on your friend/musician - i guess the problem is | > iiuwsynth`s soundfont-bullshit. | > Whithout an implementation of a real drumsampler, Muse cannot do much | > better i fear. | > The Synthsounds are very promising though... | > | > Am Fre, 2003-07-11 um 16.14 schrieb Robert Jonsson: | > > Hi guys and gals, | > > | > > A friend of mine has been doing some very serious attempts at producing music | > > with a fully linux based setup lately. | > > There has been lots of pitfalls along the way, but since he is a _very_ | > > dedicated guy he has come a long way towards pulling of his goal. | > > | > > The goal in question being to produce an "album" purely in linux. (album in | > > the sense that the songs are freely downloadable from the same web page on | > > the net, i think ;) ) | > > | > > He has just started to document the thing, you can have a look here: | > > http://computerville.homeip.net/linuxmusic/, there are also some samples of | > > what he has produced this far, in my opinion it shows that linux audio is | > > getting 'there'. | > > | > > Have a nice weekend, | > > Robert | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > | > | | | --__--__-- | | Message: 8 | Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:05:58 +0200 | From: mik prims <mprims(a)skynet.be> | To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories | Reply-To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | | On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT) | Brian Redfern <bredfern(a)calarts.edu> wrote: | | > Well, I use Swami to build my own sound fonts, I have some quite gritty | > ones, cause my old band-mate is the producer for The Freestyle Fellowship | > (if you haven't heard of them, they've been the underground legends of Hi | > Hop for 12 years now). | > | Boundaries! Boundaries! You've got to be righteous, you've got to be free etc. | | m | | --__--__-- | | Message: 9 | Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:12:08 -0700 (PDT) | From: Brian Redfern <bredfern(a)calarts.edu> | To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories | Reply-To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | | Exactly. Joe is an awsome producer, check out their albumn from 2001, Joe | is producing and the beats are just fluid. He uses nothing but an adat | and an asr10 keyboard, and that's it. | Once jack gets mature then you'll be able to do more and more with just | linux. Already I can do complete live sets just playing terminatorX on | linux and that's it, though I usually play live guitar and sync together | my adrenalinn with my korg es1 and then I put the audio from terminatorX | through the korg to process it. I think linux works just as well with | midi gear as mac/windows does, especially Suse, I've had the best results | so far with Suse 8.2, but its not suprising given that Suse employs | geniuses like Takashi Iwai. | | | | On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, mik prims wrote: | | > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT) | > Brian Redfern <bredfern(a)calarts.edu> wrote: | > | > > Well, I use Swami to build my own sound fonts, I have some quite gritty | > > ones, cause my old band-mate is the producer for The Freestyle Fellowship | > > (if you haven't heard of them, they've been the underground legends of Hi | > > Hop for 12 years now). | > > | > Boundaries! Boundaries! You've got to be righteous, you've got to be free etc. | > | > m | > | | | --__--__-- | | Message: 10 | Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:07:15 +0900 | From: Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> | Organization: Boost Hardware | To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Live music. | Reply-To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | | In case there are still some people out there who thinks Linux musos | don't actually have an audience or something else stupid like that, some | of you may be interested in what we are doing here in Korea. | | http://www.djcj.org/gigs/ethos | | | | -- | Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. | Http://www.boosthardware.com | Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide | ======================================== | | Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No! | We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything | I've ever done. | | Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002 | The Scotsman | | | --__--__-- | | Message: 11 | Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:53:38 -0400 (EDT) | From: Lee Azzarello <lee(a)fallingforward.net> | To: Audio-User <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> | Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories | Reply-To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | | configure can't find fftw3f. I just installed version 3 alongside version | 2.1.5, which is Gentoo's current version which I can't remove because many | things depend on it. I tried setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH to /usr/local/lib but | no luck. Could you maybe put in a --with-fftw-prefix= option to configure? | | -l[e^2] | ------------------------------ | http://www.fallingforward.net/ | people experimenting with music, art and technology | | On 13 Jul 2003, Jan Depner wrote: | | > Lee, | > | > Very cool page. I'm glad you found my ALSA_JACK_ARDOUR doc useful. | > You should check out JAMin for mastering - | > http://sourceforge.net/projects/jamin/. We're getting pretty close and | > it's already useful. I'm working on selectable scenes right now. You | > could add it to your list - T-RackS for $400 vs JAMin for $0. I keep a | > copy of the latest tarball on my site | > http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/jamin.tgz if you can't get the | > sourceforge CVS to work for you (it's been a bit flaky lately). | > | > Cheers | > | > Jan | > | > On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 18:14, Lee Azzarello wrote: | > > I'm also rocking this steez. Here's my log of progress: | > > http://www.fallingforward.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=62 | > > | > > -l[e^2] | > > ------------------------------ | > > http://www.fallingforward.net/ | > > people experimenting with music, art and technology | > > | > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Robert Jonsson wrote: | > > | > > > Hi guys and gals, | > > > | > > > A friend of mine has been doing some very serious attempts at producing music | > > > with a fully linux based setup lately. | > > > There has been lots of pitfalls along the way, but since he is a _very_ | > > > dedicated guy he has come a long way towards pulling of his goal. | > > > | > > > The goal in question being to produce an "album" purely in linux. (album in | > > > the sense that the songs are freely downloadable from the same web page on | > > > the net, i think ;) ) | > > > | > > > He has just started to document the thing, you can have a look here: | > > > http://computerville.homeip.net/linuxmusic/, there are also some samples of | > > > what he has produced this far, in my opinion it shows that linux audio is | > > > getting 'there'. | > > > | > > > Have a nice weekend, | > > > Robert | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > | > | > | | | --__--__-- | | Message: 12 | Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories | From: Jan Depner <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net> | To: Audio-User <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> | Date: 14 Jul 2003 04:37:38 -0500 | Reply-To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | | You have to set --enable-float on the ./configure line for fftw3. | Normally it compiles only the double precision version. | | Jan | | On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 23:53, Lee Azzarello wrote: | > configure can't find fftw3f. I just installed version 3 alongside version | > 2.1.5, which is Gentoo's current version which I can't remove because many | > things depend on it. I tried setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH to /usr/local/lib but | > no luck. Could you maybe put in a --with-fftw-prefix= option to configure? | > | > -l[e^2] | > ------------------------------ | > http://www.fallingforward.net/ | > people experimenting with music, art and technology | > | > On 13 Jul 2003, Jan Depner wrote: | > | > > Lee, | > > | > > Very cool page. I'm glad you found my ALSA_JACK_ARDOUR doc useful. | > > You should check out JAMin for mastering - | > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/jamin/. We're getting pretty close and | > > it's already useful. I'm working on selectable scenes right now. You | > > could add it to your list - T-RackS for $400 vs JAMin for $0. I keep a | > > copy of the latest tarball on my site | > > http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/jamin.tgz if you can't get the | > > sourceforge CVS to work for you (it's been a bit flaky lately). | > > | > > Cheers | > > | > > Jan | > > | > > On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 18:14, Lee Azzarello wrote: | > > > I'm also rocking this steez. Here's my log of progress: | > > > http://www.fallingforward.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=62 | > > > | > > > -l[e^2] | > > > ------------------------------ | > > > http://www.fallingforward.net/ | > > > people experimenting with music, art and technology | > > > | > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Robert Jonsson wrote: | > > > | > > > > Hi guys and gals, | > > > > | > > > > A friend of mine has been doing some very serious attempts at producing music | > > > > with a fully linux based setup lately. | > > > > There has been lots of pitfalls along the way, but since he is a _very_ | > > > > dedicated guy he has come a long way towards pulling of his goal. | > > > > | > > > > The goal in question being to produce an "album" purely in linux. (album in | > > > > the sense that the songs are freely downloadable from the same web page on | > > > > the net, i think ;) ) | > > > > | > > > > He has just started to document the thing, you can have a look here: | > > > > http://computerville.homeip.net/linuxmusic/, there are also some samples of | > > > > what he has produced this far, in my opinion it shows that linux audio is | > > > > getting 'there'. | > > > > | > > > > Have a nice weekend, | > > > > Robert | > > > > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > | > > | > > | > | | | | | --__--__-- | | _______________________________________________ | linux-audio-user mailing list | linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu | http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user | | | End of linux-audio-user Digest |