18 Mar
2012
18 Mar
'12
8:56 p.m.
Hello everyone!
I'm looking for a good audio distro for a GUI-minded friend. I thought, that
Ubuntu Studio was the one, but we didn't really find something like a live-DVD
for that. My question: If I'm right and it really is Ubuntu Studio, that I'm
looking for, could someone recommend a good place to get a live-DVD.
If my memory betrayed me, could someone tell me, which musically advanced
distro I might choose instead. Kepp in mind: My friend wants a live-DVD to
start with and he's very much GUI minded and would like something, that is as
reliable as could be without much effort. So something, which will just boot -
in normal cases - and might even have JACK running from the start would be
perfect.
I know, I could probably research all that, but I'm so out of this field,
that it would take me ages to sift through all those GUI-heavy distros, which
I always avoided like the devil. :-)
Warm regards and thanks
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
18 Mar
18 Mar
9:19 p.m.
Hi Julien, your friend may appreciate AV Linux
http://www.bandshed.net/DownloadInstall.html
HTH,
Fred
--
Ah, si chaque grain de sable choisissait d'apporter sa goutte d'eau, hein ?
9:25 p.m.
Hi Fred!
Merci, I will pass that along.
A la prochaine
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
10:08 p.m.
On 03/18/2012 08:57 PM, Julien Claassen wrote:
Hello everyone!
I'm looking for a good audio distro for a GUI-minded friend. I
thought, that Ubuntu Studio was the one, but we didn't really find
something like a live-DVD for that. My question: If I'm right and it
really is Ubuntu Studio, that I'm looking for, could someone recommend a
good place to get a live-DVD.
If my memory betrayed me, could someone tell me, which musically
advanced distro I might choose instead. Kepp in mind: My friend wants a
live-DVD to start with and he's very much GUI minded and would like
something, that is as reliable as could be without much effort. So
something, which will just boot - in normal cases - and might even have
JACK running from the start would be perfect.
I know, I could probably research all that, but I'm so out of this
field, that it would take me ages to sift through all those GUI-heavy
distros, which I always avoided like the devil. :-)
Hi Julien,
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/apps/categories/linux_live
a bit off-topic, but speaking of the devil: Is above page well-arranged
in a braille reader? I suppose the left sidebar navigation might be too
dominant (if it is at the top of the page instead of at the side) Does
your browser automatically use the 'plain html access link'? I always
wondered if those '<link rel="alternate"..>' headers are good for
anything in the real-world.
Any suggestion(s) on how to improve accessibility is greatly appreciated.
best,
robin
11:06 p.m.
Hi Robin1
First of all thanks for the link, that does provide a lot of good info,
packed in one place.
As to the website itself: Lynx doesn't see the alternate plaine html link,
links2 (and thus elinks) do. I'm not really sure, if these special versions
are necessary. Place a hidden link to "skip navigation" or "skip to
content"
and it should be fine, unless you depend a lot on javascript. to be fair:
Javascript is nowadays accepted. Still it's no good for all those text based
browsers and from what I hear, the GUI-based browsers aren't really fun with
Orca, yet. This might have changed with the latest version, but there are very
few distros, that I know off, which have it included in stable branches yet.
Kind regards
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
10:16 p.m.
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012, Julien Claassen wrote:
Hello everyone!
I'm looking for a good audio distro for a GUI-minded friend. I thought,
that Ubuntu Studio was the one, but we didn't really find something like a
live-DVD for that. My question: If I'm right and it really is Ubuntu Studio,
that I'm looking for, could someone recommend a good place to get a live-DVD.
Ubuntu Studio has not published a live DVD in several years. However, the
upcoming release, scheduled for late April, now in beta, has one.
Daily build available here:
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
The daily build is built for AMD_64 only, the final release, as well as
the Beta1 (March 1st) will be available for several other architectures as
well.
I just booted yesterday's daily build on my laptop. jack started up
readily, as well as Ardour. The Ardour release is 2.8.2, with a copyright
date of 2009. Current release is 2.8.12 (sept 2011), so it looks like the
debian & ubuntu packagers haven't kept up...
AVLinux, which was mentioned by another, is only available for i386.
--
Rick Green
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
10:24 p.m.
I wish I knew what platforms the LAD folks use for development. That
might sway my own decision about what distribution(s) to run. I'm
not after any endorsement. But, one would think that bugs would be
found and fixed first on the development system. I wish CCRMA was a
little better maintained. It seems like wholly worthwhile direction.
Cheerio....
--
Kevin
10:29 p.m.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 02:24:35PM -0700, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
I wish I knew what platforms the LAD folks use for development. That
might sway my own decision about what distribution(s) to run. I'm
not after any endorsement. But, one would think that bugs would be
found and fixed first on the development system. I wish CCRMA was a
little better maintained. It seems like wholly worthwhile direction.
Here it's Archlinux. A 'rolling release' distro which means
living on the edge and occasional frustration, but it's worth it.
Ciao,
--
FA
Vor uns liegt ein weites Tal, die Sonne scheint - ein Glitzerstrahl.
19 Mar
19 Mar
11:53 a.m.
On 03/18/2012 10:29 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 02:24:35PM -0700, Kevin
Cosgrove wrote:
Not a developer here, but using Debian testing (sometimes mixed with
unstable) wit the same reasons.
As alternative for Ubuntu Studio I would recommend Tango Studio or AVLinux.
\r
I wish I knew what platforms the LAD folks use for development. That
might sway my own decision about what distribution(s) to run. I'm
not after any endorsement. But, one would think that bugs would be
found and fixed first on the development system. I wish CCRMA was a
little better maintained. It seems like wholly worthwhile direction.
Here it's Archlinux. A 'rolling release' distro which means
living on the edge and occasional frustration, but it's worth it. 
18 Mar
18 Mar
10:54 p.m.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Kevin Cosgrove <kevinc(a)cosgroves.us> wrote:
I wish I knew what platforms the LAD folks use for development. That
might sway my own decision about what distribution(s) to run. I'm
not after any endorsement. But, one would think that bugs would be
found and fixed first on the development system.
i don't fix bugs in my distro. i generally don't even report them. in
fact, i rarely find them because i'm a developer, not a user. in
addition, i've been using fedora/redhat for 13+ years, so there's
rarely any "new-to-me" issues. i just don't think that the distro i
use is relevant. i might switch to AVLinux, I might not. fedora hasn't
been great, it hasn't been terrible. you'd have much more information
knowing what *hardware* i use, but since it doesn't actually perform
very well for audio it wouldn't be all that useful.
I wish CCRMA was a
little better maintained. It seems like wholly worthwhile direction.
there's nothing wrong with CCRMA maintainance. what has happened with
CCRMA is that the overwhelming majority of what fernando used to do
(packaging apps) has moved into Fedora itself. that just leaves a few
basic tasks which fedora doesn't do and fernando does (primarily
building an RT-PREEMPT kernel).
11:32 p.m.
On 18 March 2012 at 17:54, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Kevin Cosgrove
<kevinc(a)cosgroves.us> wrote:
I can see how I was too ambiguous in my comment. What I meant
was that if I could have an exact replica of a developer's
system, that I wouldn't run into very many bugs in the audio
application being developed on that system because they'd
presumably be found and fixed on that system first. If my system
is very far removed compared to what's being used for testing,
then I could be the only one to experience it, making it hard to
find, much less fix.
I wish I knew what platforms the LAD folks use for
development. That might sway my own decision about what
distribution(s) to run. I'm not after any endorsement. But,
one would think that bugs would be found and fixed first on
the development system.
i don't fix bugs in my distro. i generally don't even report
them. in fact, i rarely find them because i'm a developer, not
a user. in addition, i've been using fedora/redhat for 13+
years, so
there's rarely any "new-to-me" issues. i just don't think that
the distro i use is relevant. i might switch to AVLinux, I
might not. fedora hasn't been great, it hasn't been terrible.
you'd have much more information knowing what *hardware* i use,
but since it doesn't actually perform very well for audio it
wouldn't be all that useful.
Your CCRMA comments are really good news to me. I'd mistaken
inactivity with lack of maintenance. It's very nice to hear that
it's more lack of need for maintenance. The RT-PREEMPT kernel is
a nice thing for sure.
So, what components of a system are most relevant for
compatibility between developers and users? I'd suspect these
would be pretty important: kernel, glibc, ALSA, JACK. What else?
Thanks....
--
Kevin
I wish CCRMA was a little better maintained. It
seems like
wholly worthwhile direction.
there's nothing wrong with CCRMA maintainance. what has
happened with CCRMA is that the overwhelming majority of what
fernando used to do (packaging apps) has moved into Fedora
itself. that just leaves a few basic tasks which fedora doesn't
do and fernando does (primarily building an RT-PREEMPT kernel).
11:40 p.m.
Hi Kevin!
Not being a developer, I still came across one other: compiler version. I
don't know, how much of teh new standard is fixed now. But there was some
trouble, because of different compiler versions in the recent past.
With GUI apps you also have the GUI-toolkit used. Tehse seem to change quite
a bit now and again, especially, when they approach the next major versions.
Really from what I've seen, the GUI-part of tools is the least stable and most
tedious part of the matter. I have run audio software for about 12 years on
Linux now, never experiencing too much trouble and always ending up with a
rather stable system. Yet I have heard from lots of people complaining
regularly, because something in the desktop systems and GUI-toolkits is
changing and has to be reconfigured when upgrading or installing software,
which is not exactly suited to their version of the GUI-toolkit. I might be
exagerating a bit, but not much. At least not judging by the swearing I
encountered. :-)
Kind regards
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
24 Mar
24 Mar
6:55 a.m.
New subject: Fedora and Audio [was: Ubuntu Studio]
On 18 March 2012 at 17:54, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
there's nothing wrong with CCRMA maintainance.
what has
happened with CCRMA is that the overwhelming majority of what
fernando used to do (packaging apps) has moved into Fedora
itself. that just leaves a few basic tasks which fedora doesn't
do and fernando does (primarily building an RT-PREEMPT kernel).
I went looking to find out more. The information at the end of these
links is informative and promising to me.
The Fedora 16 Musician's Guide:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/Musicians_Guide/index.ht…
The Audio Creation FedoraProject, which looks like they're working to
have a Fedora Audio spin for Fedora 18 (yet to be created).
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Audio_Creation
It's really nice to see that!
Just thought I'd share what I found on the chance that I'm not the
only one who didn't know.
Cheerio.....
--
Kevin
9:26 p.m.
New subject: Fedora and Audio [was: Ubuntu Studio]
On 03/24/2012 06:55 AM, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
On 18 March 2012 at 17:54, Paul Davis<paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
Thanks for posting Kevin. I 'm one of the members of the Fedora Audio
SIG behind the spin. It is in early days yet, but there was a recent
article which goes into a little bit more detail behind its goals [1].
I'd also just like to point out that the project has also been accepted
as an idea for the Google Summer of Code [2]. If there are any students
who are keen on linux audio and would like to be involved in an open
source project I'd suggest checking it out!
Brendan
[1]
http://www.muktware.com/news/3445/fedora-audio-spin-creating-music-fedora-e…
[2]
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_coding_ideas_for_2012#Fedora_Audio_Cre…
there's nothing wrong with CCRMA
maintainance. what has
happened with CCRMA is that the overwhelming majority of what
fernando used to do (packaging apps) has moved into Fedora
itself. that just leaves a few basic tasks which fedora doesn't
do and fernando does (primarily building an RT-PREEMPT kernel).
I went looking to find out more. The information at the end of these
links is informative and promising to me.
The Fedora 16 Musician's Guide:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/Musicians_Guide/index.ht…
The Audio Creation FedoraProject, which looks like they're working to
have a Fedora Audio spin for Fedora 18 (yet to be created).
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Audio_Creation
It's really nice to see that!
Just thought I'd share what I found on the chance that I'm not the
only one who didn't know.
Cheerio.....
--
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
18 Mar
18 Mar
11:09 p.m.
Hello Rick!
Thanks for the heads up.
Best wishes
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
19 Mar
19 Mar
2:58 a.m.
On 03/18/2012 11:16 AM, Rick Green wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012, Julien Claassen wrote:
I use Aptosid, which is Debian Sid based and realy very stable (the
Aptosid team do a lot of checking of Sid packages and have their own
scripts that help filter out the Sid oddities. There's an RT kernel in
Sid now, requires the PAE extensions so I haven't tried it out (my music
systems don't support PAE).
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
Hello everyone!
I'm looking for a good audio distro for a GUI-minded friend. I
thought, that Ubuntu Studio was the one, but we didn't really find
something like a live-DVD for that. My question: If I'm right and it
really is Ubuntu Studio, that I'm looking for, could someone recommend
a good place to get a live-DVD.
Ubuntu Studio has not published a live DVD in several years. However,
the upcoming release, scheduled for late April, now in beta, has one.
Daily build available here:
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
The daily build is built for AMD_64 only, the final release, as well as
the Beta1 (March 1st) will be available for several other architectures
as well.
I just booted yesterday's daily build on my laptop. jack started up
readily, as well as Ardour. The Ardour release is 2.8.2, with a
copyright date of 2009. Current release is 2.8.12 (sept 2011), so it
looks like the debian & ubuntu packagers haven't kept up...
AVLinux, which was mentioned by another, is only available for i386. 
3:09 a.m.
On 19/03/12 05:16, Rick Green wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012, Julien Claassen wrote:
The daily build is built for AMD_64 only, the final
release, as well as the
Beta1 (March 1st) will be available for several other architectures as well.
I just booted yesterday's daily build on my laptop. jack started up readily, as
well as Ardour. The Ardour release is 2.8.2, with a copyright date of 2009.
Current release is 2.8.12 (sept 2011), so it looks like the debian & ubuntu
packagers haven't kept up...
Debian is up to date ...
ardour 1:2.8.12-1 testing ftp.iinet.net.au
ardour 1:2.8.12-1 sid ftp.iinet.net.au
even stable (squeeze, which has been out for a long time) is:
ardour 1:2.8.11-3 stable ftp.iinet.net.au
so I don't know where Ubuntu Studio gets theirs from, but it is much older than
the versions in Debian ... I would expect a new Debian based distro to be based
off sid and testing (i.e. wheezy).
Simon
4:07 a.m.
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012, Simon Wise wrote:
On 19/03/12 05:16, Rick Green wrote:
My bad eyes. It was 2.8.12, not .2. ...but the copywrite notice does
say 1999-2009. Why wouldn't he update that as well?
--
Rick Green
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012, Julien Claassen wrote:
The daily build is built for AMD_64 only, the
final release, as well as the
Beta1 (March 1st) will be available for several other architectures as
well.
I just booted yesterday's daily build on my laptop. jack started up
readily, as
well as Ardour. The Ardour release is 2.8.2, with a copyright date of 2009.
Current release is 2.8.12 (sept 2011), so it looks like the debian & ubuntu
packagers haven't kept up...
Debian is up to date ...
ardour 1:2.8.12-1 testing ftp.iinet.net.au
ardour 1:2.8.12-1 sid ftp.iinet.net.au
even stable (squeeze, which has been out for a long time) is:
ardour 1:2.8.11-3 stable ftp.iinet.net.au
so I don't know where Ubuntu Studio gets theirs from, but it is much older
than the versions in Debian ... I would expect a new Debian based distro to
be based off sid and testing (i.e. wheezy).
2:54 a.m.
On 03/18/2012 09:57 AM, Julien Claassen wrote:
Hello everyone!
I'm looking for a good audio distro for a GUI-minded friend. I thought,
that Ubuntu Studio was the one, but we didn't really find something like
a live-DVD for that. My question: If I'm right and it really is Ubuntu
Studio, that I'm looking for, could someone recommend a good place to
get a live-DVD.
If my memory betrayed me, could someone tell me, which musically
advanced distro I might choose instead. Kepp in mind: My friend wants a
live-DVD to start with and he's very much GUI minded and would like
something, that is as reliable as could be without much effort. So
something, which will just boot - in normal cases - and might even have
JACK running from the start would be perfect.
I know, I could probably research all that, but I'm so out of this
field, that it would take me ages to sift through all those GUI-heavy
distros, which I always avoided like the devil. :-)
Warm regards and thanks
Musix 3.0 Beta works nicely on my systems here when running from live
DVD. Haven't made the time yet to install it on the synthesizer/effects
box, but I like it very much.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
28 Mar
28 Mar
12:43 p.m.
Hi Julien (I top-post because I know you prefer).
I concur with David, Musix is a good choice (what can I say ;) ). We're
working on Musix 3 beta 2, and we still struggling to finish a final
version as soon as possible.
And to add one more option to the others, I would say Kxstudio[1]. I liked
it when I gave it a try some time ago.
[1]*kxstudio*.sourceforge.net/
2012/3/19 david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com>
On 03/18/2012 09:57 AM, Julien Claassen wrote:
--
Carlos sanchiavedraz
* Musix GNU+Linux
http://www.musix.es
Hello everyone!
I'm looking for a good audio distro for a GUI-minded friend. I thought,
that Ubuntu Studio was the one, but we didn't really find something like
a live-DVD for that. My question: If I'm right and it really is Ubuntu
Studio, that I'm looking for, could someone recommend a good place to
get a live-DVD.
If my memory betrayed me, could someone tell me, which musically
advanced distro I might choose instead. Kepp in mind: My friend wants a
live-DVD to start with and he's very much GUI minded and would like
something, that is as reliable as could be without much effort. So
something, which will just boot - in normal cases - and might even have
JACK running from the start would be perfect.
I know, I could probably research all that, but I'm so out of this
field, that it would take me ages to sift through all those GUI-heavy
distros, which I always avoided like the devil. :-)
Warm regards and thanks
Musix 3.0 Beta works nicely on my systems here when running from live DVD.
Haven't made the time yet to install it on the synthesizer/effects box, but
I like it very much.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
______________________________**_________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user@lists.**linuxaudio.org<Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org>
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/**listinfo/linux-audio-user<http://lists.lin…
1:33 p.m.
Hi Carlos!
Thanks for chiming in and for the additional option of kxstudio.
Warm regards
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
3:03 p.m.
I've been taking a closer look at the upcoming Ubuntu Studio release,
scheduled for release the last week of April. I've been downloading the
daily build about once a week and giving it a try...
For the first time, Ubuntu Studio is building a Live DVD, which makes
these sneak peeks painless, and yesterday, I experienced a first for ANY
Live Audio-oriented distro:
The March 27th daily build booted cleanly on my AMD64 laptop, and I was
able to launch qjackctl, select the firewire driver, start jack, Launch
Ardour, and record two tracks of audio for 25 minutes, all by accepting
all defaults, and without a single xrun!
Finally, FFADO/jack/Ardour have reached the status of 'it just works!'
on UbuntuStudio 12.04
--
Rick Green
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
29 Mar
29 Mar
7:55 p.m.
That's a great news!!!
Looking forward this new LiveDVD!!!
cheers
Julien
I've been taking a closer look at the upcoming
Ubuntu Studio
release, scheduled for release the last week of April. I've been
downloading the daily build about once a week and giving it a try...
For the first time, Ubuntu Studio is building a Live DVD, which
makes these sneak peeks painless, and yesterday, I experienced a
first for ANY Live Audio-oriented distro:
The March 27th daily build booted cleanly on my AMD64 laptop, and
I was able to launch qjackctl, select the firewire driver, start
jack, Launch Ardour, and record two tracks of audio for 25 minutes,
all by accepting all defaults, and without a single xrun!
Finally, FFADO/jack/Ardour have reached the status of 'it just
works!' on UbuntuStudio 12.04
--
Rick Green
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
APO33
space of research and experimentation
http://www.apo33.org
info(a)apo33.org
4623
days inactive
4634
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
22 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
APO33 -
Brendan Jones -
Carlos sanchiavedraz -
david -
Fons Adriaensen -
Fred -
Julien Claassen -
Kevin Cosgrove -
Paul Davis -
Rick Green -
Robin Gareus -
rosea.grammostola -
Simon Wise