11 Dec
2012
11 Dec
'12
9:27 a.m.
*Wrote this some time ago to the list, never got a reply. Now looking
through the archives, I don't see this mail at all. I did attach a file, so
maybe it was filtered.
This is why I am duplicating this.*
Hey fellas!
I notice that no Linux samplers seem to support wav file loop points. All
Windows DAWs that I have used support the format and there are a lot of
samples out there with perfect loop points which is very useful.
I have no idea whether this is part of the spec or not but these
looppoints have been used for more than 15 years, that's for sure,
since some
of these sample collections have been around during tracking days. I did
find something on loops here: http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html
But I think you, devs, know better than me anyway.
I think it would be great if LMMS, samplers like Petri-Foo would support
this, as this adds a lot of functionality. Many sample collections provide
perfect loops and it is tiresome to have to try to remake it by hand each
time, while in some software it is simply impossible at all.
What do you think?
ps: I can provide you with a sample example with loop points
11 Dec
11 Dec
12:05 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:27:14 +0300
Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com> wrote:
*Wrote this some time ago to the list, never got a
reply. Now looking
through the archives, I don't see this mail at all. I did attach a file, so
maybe it was filtered.
This is why I am duplicating this.*
Hey fellas!
I notice that no Linux samplers seem to support wav file loop points. All
Windows DAWs that I have used support the format and there are a lot of
samples out there with perfect loop points which is very useful.
I have no idea whether this is part of the spec or not but these
looppoints have been used for more than 15 years, that's for sure,
since some
of these sample collections have been around during tracking days. I did
find something on loops here: http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html
But I think you, devs, know better than me anyway.
I think it would be great if LMMS, samplers like Petri-Foo would support
this, as this adds a lot of functionality. Many sample collections provide
perfect loops and it is tiresome to have to try to remake it by hand each
time, while in some software it is simply impossible at all.
What do you think?
How do you store wave and loop data? Or how do you plan to enter the loop points?
A quick look over the wikipedia Wave page does not indicate that loop points are part of
the format itself.
Nils
12:53 p.m.
The most common formats for "loops defined inside an audio file" have
historically been non-WAV (or extensions to wav), such as REX, and
proprietary.
The WAV spec does include the concept of a playlist, consisting of cue
points and lengths. By themselves, these don't really define "loops" in a
way that is generally going to be clear to the user.
libsndfile can definitely read these from the file, but i'm not sure what
an app would do with them. providing a sample with a loop point(s) defined
would be good.
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
*Wrote this some time ago to the list, never got a
reply. Now looking
through the archives, I don't see this mail at all. I did attach a file, so
maybe it was filtered.
This is why I am duplicating this.*
Hey fellas!
I notice that no Linux samplers seem to support wav file loop points. All
Windows DAWs that I have used support the format and there are a lot of
samples out there with perfect loop points which is very useful.
I have no idea whether this is part of the spec or not but these looppoints have been
used for more than 15 years, that's for sure, since some
of these sample collections have been around during tracking days. I did
find something on loops here:
http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html
But I think you, devs, know better than me anyway.
I think it would be great if LMMS, samplers like Petri-Foo would support
this, as this adds a lot of functionality. Many sample collections provide
perfect loops and it is tiresome to have to try to remake it by hand each
time, while in some software it is simply impossible at all.
What do you think?
ps: I can provide you with a sample example with loop points
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
12:56 p.m.
ah, the "smpl" chunk ... probably that stuff. i've never actually heard of
samplers using this ;) interesting ....
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com>wrote;wrote:
The most common formats for "loops defined inside
an audio file" have
historically been non-WAV (or extensions to wav), such as REX, and
proprietary.
The WAV spec does include the concept of a playlist, consisting of cue
points and lengths. By themselves, these don't really define "loops" in a
way that is generally going to be clear to the user.
libsndfile can definitely read these from the file, but i'm not sure what
an app would do with them. providing a sample with a loop point(s) defined
would be good.
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
*Wrote this some time ago to the list, never got
a reply. Now looking
through the archives, I don't see this mail at all. I did attach a file, so
maybe it was filtered.
This is why I am duplicating this.*
Hey fellas!
I notice that no Linux samplers seem to support wav file loop points.
All Windows DAWs that I have used support the format and there are a lot of
samples out there with perfect loop points which is very useful.
I have no idea whether this is part of the spec or not but these looppoints have been
used for more than 15 years, that's for sure, since some
of these sample collections have been around during tracking days. I did
find something on loops here:
http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html
But I think you, devs, know better than me anyway.
I think it would be great if LMMS, samplers like Petri-Foo would support
this, as this adds a lot of functionality. Many sample collections provide
perfect loops and it is tiresome to have to try to remake it by hand
each time, while in some software it is simply impossible at all.
What do you think?
ps: I can provide you with a sample example with loop points
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
1:03 p.m.
On Tue, December 11, 2012 7:27 pm, Louigi Verona wrote:
*Wrote this some time ago to the list, never got a
reply. Now looking
through the archives, I don't see this mail at all. I did attach a file,
so
maybe it was filtered.
This is why I am duplicating this.*
Hey fellas!
I notice that no Linux samplers seem to support wav file loop points. All
Windows DAWs that I have used support the format and there are a lot of
samples out there with perfect loop points which is very useful.
Can you give us details on a specific method?
A lot of us don't use windows apps so an explanation of the functionality
you are looking for could be helpful.
I have no idea whether this is part of the spec or not
but these
looppoints have been used for more than 15 years, that's for sure,
since some
of these sample collections have been around during tracking days. I did
find something on loops here:
http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html
It looks like it is done with cue points and playlists.
"A playlist consists of an array of segments, each containing information
about what sample the segment should start playing from, how long the
segment is (in samples) and how many times to repeat the segment before
moving on to the next segment in the play order."
But I think you, devs, know better than me anyway.
I think it would be great if LMMS, samplers like Petri-Foo would support
this, as this adds a lot of functionality. Many sample collections provide
perfect loops and it is tiresome to have to try to remake it by hand each
time, while in some software it is simply impossible at all.
What do you think?
I think seamless looping functionality is a feature that a lot of LAD
tools could benefit from.
ps: I can provide you with a sample example with loop points
Might as well put a couple up for us to look at.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
1:20 p.m.
Sure guys, here are examples:
http://www.louigiverona.ru/files/SOFTSTR3.WAV
http://www.louigiverona.ru/files/GLOWVOX2.WAV
1:28 p.m.
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Sure guys, here are examples:
http://www.louigiverona.ru/files/SOFTSTR3.WAV
the data is all there, certainly:
sndfile-info SOFTSTR3.WAV
Version : libsndfile-1.0.25
========================================
File : SOFTSTR3.WAV
Length : 421020
RIFF : 421012
WAVE
fmt : 16
Format : 0x1 => WAVE_FORMAT_PCM
Channels : 1
Sample Rate : 44100
Block Align : 2
Bit Width : 16
Bytes/sec : 88200
data : 420612
smpl : 60
Manufacturer : 0
Product : 0
Period : 22675 nsec
Midi Note : 60
Pitch Fract. : 0
SMPTE Format : 0
SMPTE Offset : 00:00:00 00
Loop Count : 1
Cue ID : 0 Type : 0 Start : 84250 End : 210220 Fraction : 0
Count : 0
Sampler Data : 0
so, is this is not so much a loop in the sense of a music phrase but rather
"where to repeat the audio if note off has not arrived". right?
LIST : 226
INFO
IART : Matthias "MAZ" Ziegs
ICOP : (C) 1998 Matthias "MAZ" Ziegs, MAZ Sound Tools
ICRD : 1998-03-21
INAM : Sample-CD "mazzive injection - no.1 instruments"
IPRD : Sample-CD "mazzive injection - no.1 instruments"
DISP : 53
End
----------------------------------------
Sample Rate : 44100
Frames : 210306
Channels : 1
Format : 0x00010002
Sections : 1
Seekable : TRUE
Duration : 00:00:04.769
Signal Max : 27345 (-1.57 dB)
1:31 p.m.
And it also has loop type - single or ping-pong.
I am now downloading demo version of renoise to see if it reads it, but
coming from the tracking scene,
I would be surprised if it doesn't.
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com>wrote;wrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
Sure guys, here are examples:
http://www.louigiverona.ru/files/SOFTSTR3.WAV
the data is all there, certainly:
sndfile-info SOFTSTR3.WAV
Version : libsndfile-1.0.25
========================================
File : SOFTSTR3.WAV
Length : 421020
RIFF : 421012
WAVE
fmt : 16
Format : 0x1 => WAVE_FORMAT_PCM
Channels : 1
Sample Rate : 44100
Block Align : 2
Bit Width : 16
Bytes/sec : 88200
data : 420612
smpl : 60
Manufacturer : 0
Product : 0
Period : 22675 nsec
Midi Note : 60
Pitch Fract. : 0
SMPTE Format : 0
SMPTE Offset : 00:00:00 00
Loop Count : 1
Cue ID : 0 Type : 0 Start : 84250 End : 210220 Fraction : 0
Count : 0
Sampler Data : 0
so, is this is not so much a loop in the sense of a music phrase but
rather "where to repeat the audio if note off has not arrived". right?
LIST : 226
INFO
IART : Matthias "MAZ" Ziegs
ICOP : (C) 1998 Matthias "MAZ" Ziegs, MAZ Sound Tools
ICRD : 1998-03-21
INAM : Sample-CD "mazzive injection - no.1 instruments"
IPRD : Sample-CD "mazzive injection - no.1 instruments"
DISP : 53
End
----------------------------------------
Sample Rate : 44100
Frames : 210306
Channels : 1
Format : 0x00010002
Sections : 1
Seekable : TRUE
Duration : 00:00:04.769
Signal Max : 27345 (-1.57 dB)
13 Dec
13 Dec
1:45 p.m.
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:03:13 +1100
From: pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
To: linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [LAU] Wav loop points
It looks like it is done with cue points and playlists.
"A playlist consists of an array of segments, each containing information
about what sample the segment should start playing from, how long the
segment is (in samples) and how many times to repeat the segment before
moving on to the next segment in the play order."
No, you are looking at the wrong section. Although think it might still use the Cue
Points...
smpl chunk:
"Sample Loops
The sample loops field specifies the number
Sample Loop definitions in the following list. This value may be set to 0
meaning that no sample loops follow.
Sampler Data
The sampler data value specifies the
number of bytes that will follow this chunk (including the entire sample
loop list). This value is greater than 0 when an application needs to
save additional information. This value is reflected in this chunks data
size value.
List of Sample Loops
A list of sample loops is simply a
set of consecutive loop descriptions that follow the format described
below. The sample loops do not have to be in any particular order
because each sample loop associated cue point position is used to
determine the play order. The sampler chunk is optional."
http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html#smpl
14 Dec
14 Dec
10:34 a.m.
Just tried setting up the above-mentioned SOFTSTR3 in Petri-Foo manually.
Note that you need to have X-Fade turned to 0, otherwise the end of the
loop gets "eaten" by it and you won't be able to set the loop correctly.
That means that if you automatically read smp chunk, you need to adjust the
amount of X-Fade or turn it completely off.
For example, say the end loop point is 210220 and whole file is 210300. If
X-Fade is set to its default value of 100, then the farthest available loop
point will be 210300-100=210200.
So we either just set X-Fade to 0 or else we can set it to 210300-210220=80.
L.V.
2 Apr
2 Apr
11:36 a.m.
Hey fellas!
This is an old thread and I apologiza for bringing it up, but has anyone
incorporated this into any of their software? Are you planning to?
L.V.
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Just tried setting up the above-mentioned SOFTSTR3 in
Petri-Foo manually.
Note that you need to have X-Fade turned to 0, otherwise the end of the
loop gets "eaten" by it and you won't be able to set the loop correctly.
That means that if you automatically read smp chunk, you need to adjust
the amount of X-Fade or turn it completely off.
For example, say the end loop point is 210220 and whole file is 210300. If
X-Fade is set to its default value of 100, then the farthest available loop
point will be 210300-100=210200.
So we either just set X-Fade to 0 or else we can set it to
210300-210220=80.
L.V.
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
11 Dec
11 Dec
4:29 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Louigi Verona wrote:
*Wrote this some time ago to the list, never got a
reply. Now looking
through the archives, I don't see this mail at all. I did attach a
file, so maybe it was filtered. This is why I am duplicating this.*
Hey fellas!
I notice that no Linux samplers seem to support wav file loop points.
All Windows DAWs that I have used support the format and there are a
lot of samples out there with perfect loop points which is very
useful. I have no idea whether this is part of the spec or not but
these looppoints have been used for more than 15 years, that's for
sure, since some of these sample collections have been around during
tracking days. I did find something on loops here:
http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html But I think you, devs,
know better than me anyway.
I think it would be great if LMMS, samplers like Petri-Foo would
support this, as this adds a lot of functionality. Many sample
collections provide perfect loops and it is tiresome to have to try to
remake it by hand each time, while in some software it is simply
impossible at all.
Don't know about LMMS, but Petri-Foo and Specimen do handle loop points.
If you set "Playback" to "Loop" on the Sample tab (the first tab, the
one that shows a picture of your sample's waveform), you can then
double-click on the waveform display window and get a dialog to come up
that gives quite a lot of control over setting the loop points for that
sample. There are some videos on YouTube that demo this -- search for
"Specimen sampler" there.
--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
6:34 p.m.
Yeah, Brent, but do you imagine doing this manually for hundreds of
samples, each time?
6:42 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Louigi Verona wrote:
Yeah, Brent, but do you imagine doing this manually
for hundreds of
samples, each time?
I *think* (not sure, haven't tried it yet) these loop points get saved
with a Specimen/Petri-foo project, so that when you load your bank of
samples, each sample/patch in it has the loop points you defined before,
and you can play your instrument via Midi with those loop points.
Some other posters were talking earlier about loop points actually set
inside the WAV file's header -- to control that you'd probably want a
proper sample editing program like Audacity or similar. I think the
looping you control in Specimen is just for Specimen projects and patch
banks you create in them to be played in Specimen.
(Of course all of this could be wrong... Until this year, I was
perfectly happy with just Ardour and JSynthLib, so I'm now discovering a
wide world of apps I didn't think I really needed before...and so I'm
figuring a lot of things out initially myself.)
--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
3677
days inactive
4154
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
14 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Brent Busby -
Kaza Kore -
Louigi Verona -
Nils Gey -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Davis