On Thursday 19 November 2009 09:27:35 Lorenzo wrote: You could circumvent some of the latencies on the cable when not using the full network stack. But then you have to deal with that yourself and can't use standard switches and router. And it fails miserably on wifi. The radio-transmitter latency is not detectable for human ear because everything electronic happens at light-speed at least in the analog domain. When using digital transmission, you get some latencies because of conversion but if these devices are aimed for live-usage, latencies will be below 20ms (and be advertised as "zero" latency). If you want fixed latency and a digital bus, use firewire (its _not_ dead). Last time I looked it wasn't 1 beat but one bar. Which makes much more sense musically... And leaves more time for the network to catch up. Have fun, Arnold

Thank you all for you input. Please excuse addressing everyone in one email but I think this is for the sake of my sanity. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Lorenzo <lsutton(a)libero.it> wrote: Thanks for that article. I should be able to get it through the university. The network latency is not THAT much of an issue to me. I do expect some latency and the composer who will write the music will take the latency into consideration. And the music will probably not be beat oriented in any way. That said, latencies in the range of tens of seconds would be a little extreme. The problem is that radio communication does not work well in closed spaces and, well, I was more than vague, but we will actually span several buildings (university campus). So radio is going to fail. We will be able to use the university's WiFi infrastructure. Another important consideration is that we want to "orchestrate" routing of signals between the 5 musicians which would be impossible(?) (without much manipulation at least) using radio (or cell phones, which we have taken into consideration). We do not expect the players to be tech savvy so the idea is that we can setup the computers and script as much as possible the players only boot their computers and off they go. Ninjam is something I want to take a look at but when I tried it yesterday I had problems with client not being able to access my sound card. I will look into it because a fixed latency (that I can predict) might be a an interesting compromise. I am also looking at http://www.celt-codec.org/ if I can get something going in that area. 2009/11/19 Jörn Nettingsmeier <nettings(a)folkwang-hochschule.de>de>: I don't think there will be "on the beat" happening but 3 secs might still be a lot (unless it is a constant time interval that we can work into the music like ninjam seems to be able to do) Well, the musicians will be in different areas of the campus so they will be using different access points at least. We will not have the budget for the thugs but if the network communication is a real issue we think we may have some special treatment from the IT department... ;) you mean using icecast or something? I will take a second look at netjack, I could not get it to work for some reason, but the problem is probably with my brain. Also, we don't mind dropped packets as long as most of the reach the destination (i.e. you can actually clearly hear that a sax is playing a melody). Even if it stutters a bit. It is part of the aesthetic. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Jonathan E. Brickman <jeb(a)joshuacorps.org> wrote: we don't yet have any specific laptops but were thinking of netbooks with 802.11n type interfaces. We want the gear to be as light as possible and still offer some flexibility. The network is 1GbE, in most areas at least (not in the area where I am testing it though...) Thanks for the tips on Belkin, will investigate that. Respectfully yours -- ./MiS 514-344-0726 http://www.creazone.ca

On Thursday 19 November 2009 09:25:40 Michal Seta wrote: they tend to be very, very restrictive in what they let through and what not, or have insane ways to get onto them that are tricky to get working with Linux. It may well be that in your tests ports were just blocked or bandwidth limited. So it's really worth checking out what e.g. netjack needs in terms of bandwidth and ports and all, and then check with your university IT department if that's possible on their network. sincerely, Marije

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 09:25:40AM -0500, Michal Seta wrote: so what was your problem with netjack ? did you use jack-0.118.0 ? there have been some bad bugs in svn for some time. but they should be fixed in the release ? my local wireless here at home is not a problem at all, and internet connects work fine too... a loaded wireless pushed to the max by students wont work. and piping uncompressed float data will also not work. use nice 128kbit celt streams. -- torben Hohn

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:07 PM, <fruity(a)freaknet.org> wrote: Pulse's network capabilities are very cool. But they almost certainly do not come close to what is required for a live, interactive jam unless the music is totally unstructured.