5 Sep
2007
5 Sep
'07
2:59 p.m.
Folks,
I had a house fire a few years ago in which i lost my beloved audio equipment.
Since then i have been building an audio system as money allows. I now have
a pair of Anthony Gallo Acoustics 3.1 reference. They are *very* transparent
and tell me a lot about what is happening up-stream. I also picked up a
Carver TFM-15CB. My aim is a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 amps but this will do
for now. I run my audio from computer to Carver with no out-board preamp in
between.
My computer, which was also through the fire, has been having motherboard
problems lately (what a surprise!). Since i was replacing the sound card
anyway (on board nvidia chipset via an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe), i got a Sound
Blaster Extigy on ebay. I knew it was cheep but it's what i can afford now.
I'm confused by what i'm hearing. It's very nice not to hear the whir of my
fans (especially the damned chipset fan) through my speakers, but things
sound shallow in comparison to running my audio straight from the
motherboard. I get a little more detail and it's a lot quieter, but the
weight of things are gone.
Some things sound alright, but when i listen to a track of 4 cellos playing,
the feeling of the layered harmonics is gone. Things sound flat. Not flat in
a sound-stage sense, but pianos while having the depth don't have the body.
They sound like toys or as if i'm playing an MP3. There is a fatiguing bite
to things as well.
I tested the frequency response with some warble tones and i can hear much
deeper bass tones then i could with the motherboard. I presume that is an
effect of not having the fan noise smear things.
It's just not emotionally engaging and i don't know where to go from here.
Would a SB Audity 2 NX help or would it just be more of the same for more
money? I don't want to spend a lot as this is just a stop-gap till i can
afford something better, but can someone tell me if this is the extigy in
particular, all SBs sound like this or is this the nature of all cards at
this level?
Thank you,
Bearcat M. Sandor
5 Sep
5 Sep
3:54 p.m.
Not too long ago I read a website about why not to use SB soundcards.
The effect is that the rate is locked at 48khz and things have to be
resampled to 44.1 for CD quality and things of that nature. Doesn't
seem to make much sense to me as I am just learning about this myself,
but I dug through my history until I found the site that I was
reading. I'll post it here for you, but I don't know how dated the
information there is.
http://www.pcmus.com/choosecard.htm
On 05/09/07, Bearcat M. Sandor <HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
Folks,
I had a house fire a few years ago in which i lost my beloved audio equipment.
Since then i have been building an audio system as money allows. I now have
a pair of Anthony Gallo Acoustics 3.1 reference. They are *very* transparent
and tell me a lot about what is happening up-stream. I also picked up a
Carver TFM-15CB. My aim is a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 amps but this will do
for now. I run my audio from computer to Carver with no out-board preamp in
between.
My computer, which was also through the fire, has been having motherboard
problems lately (what a surprise!). Since i was replacing the sound card
anyway (on board nvidia chipset via an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe), i got a Sound
Blaster Extigy on ebay. I knew it was cheep but it's what i can afford now.
I'm confused by what i'm hearing. It's very nice not to hear the whir of my
fans (especially the damned chipset fan) through my speakers, but things
sound shallow in comparison to running my audio straight from the
motherboard. I get a little more detail and it's a lot quieter, but the
weight of things are gone.
Some things sound alright, but when i listen to a track of 4 cellos playing,
the feeling of the layered harmonics is gone. Things sound flat. Not flat in
a sound-stage sense, but pianos while having the depth don't have the body.
They sound like toys or as if i'm playing an MP3. There is a fatiguing bite
to things as well.
I tested the frequency response with some warble tones and i can hear much
deeper bass tones then i could with the motherboard. I presume that is an
effect of not having the fan noise smear things.
It's just not emotionally engaging and i don't know where to go from here.
Would a SB Audity 2 NX help or would it just be more of the same for more
money? I don't want to spend a lot as this is just a stop-gap till i can
afford something better, but can someone tell me if this is the extigy in
particular, all SBs sound like this or is this the nature of all cards at
this level?
Thank you,
Bearcat M. Sandor
_______________________________________________
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/linux-audio-user
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5:10 p.m.
Chip,
Thank you. The would explain the harshness i am hearing too. It actually
hurts. I have to turn the volume way down from where i usually listen, and
i don't listen that loud anyway. I mean, granted i now it's not gonna
sound like a high-end product but this is ridiculous.
I suppose they are only testing on computer desktop speakers where you
wouldn't even hear the grain.
It's good to know that all AC '97 cards do this (at least at the time of
writing)
I just hooked up my motherboard sound chip again and even with the hum of
the fans through the speakers it sounds *much* better.
Of course the ultimate goal is to get a good AV processor and be able to
go out through HDMI with the upcoming Intel boards, but that's another
goal entirely.
Thanks,
Bearcat M. Sandor
Not too long ago I read a website about why not to use
SB soundcards.
The effect is that the rate is locked at 48khz and things have to be
resampled to 44.1 for CD quality and things of that nature. Doesn't
seem to make much sense to me as I am just learning about this myself,
but I dug through my history until I found the site that I was
reading. I'll post it here for you, but I don't know how dated the
information there is.
http://www.pcmus.com/choosecard.htm
On 05/09/07, Bearcat M. Sandor <HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
Folks,
I had a house fire a few years ago in which i lost my beloved audio
equipment.
Since then i have been building an audio system as money allows. I now
have
a pair of Anthony Gallo Acoustics 3.1 reference. They are *very*
transparent
and tell me a lot about what is happening up-stream. I also picked up a
Carver TFM-15CB. My aim is a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 amps but this
will do
for now. I run my audio from computer to Carver with no out-board
preamp in
between.
My computer, which was also through the fire, has been having
motherboard
problems lately (what a surprise!). Since i was replacing the sound
card
anyway (on board nvidia chipset via an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe), i got a
Sound
Blaster Extigy on ebay. I knew it was cheep but it's what i can afford
now.
I'm confused by what i'm hearing. It's very nice not to hear the whir of
my
fans (especially the damned chipset fan) through my speakers, but things
sound shallow in comparison to running my audio straight from the
motherboard. I get a little more detail and it's a lot quieter, but the
weight of things are gone.
Some things sound alright, but when i listen to a track of 4 cellos
playing,
the feeling of the layered harmonics is gone. Things sound flat. Not
flat in
a sound-stage sense, but pianos while having the depth don't have the
body.
They sound like toys or as if i'm playing an MP3. There is a fatiguing
bite
to things as well.
I tested the frequency response with some warble tones and i can hear
much
deeper bass tones then i could with the motherboard. I presume that is
an
effect of not having the fan noise smear things.
It's just not emotionally engaging and i don't know where to go from
here.
Would a SB Audity 2 NX help or would it just be more of the same for
more
money? I don't want to spend a lot as this is just a stop-gap till i can
afford something better, but can someone tell me if this is the extigy
in
particular, all SBs sound like this or is this the nature of all cards
at
this level?
Thank you,
Bearcat M. Sandor
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/linux-audio-user
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o K? w O-- M- V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t- 5-- X R- !tv
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5:21 p.m.
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Thank you. The would explain the harshness i am
hearing too. It actually
hurts. I have to turn the volume way down from where i usually listen, and
i don't listen that loud anyway. I mean, granted i now it's not gonna
sound like a high-end product but this is ridiculous.
How were you listening to your music? Maybe you can still tune it a
bit by running the card fixed at 48kHz and play your music with a good
resampling soundfile player. I'd recommend mocp (Music On Console) for
this, it's using libsamplerate and you can configure the quality of
the resample algorithm. Or, if money allows, get a good sounding PCI
card. The M-Audio Audiophile is very good and well shielded, too, so
you won't hear the fans. On *bay it may be available cheap as well.
PCI cards tend to be cheaper for comparable quality than USB cards.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
6:15 p.m.
Frank,
Good point. Thank you. Changing the sample-rate may do it. I fear it's
still gonna sound crappy even compared to my on-board nvidia sound. I'll
try it though.
So, if i were to get a higher-end sound card like an RME that might be
shielded enough to avoid the fan hums? I'm gonna get things as quiet
inside my case as possible, but i'll need *some* fans even if they are
large and slow.
Bearcat M. Sandor
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Thank you. The would explain the harshness i am
hearing too. It actually
hurts. I have to turn the volume way down from where i usually listen,
and
i don't listen that loud anyway. I mean, granted i now it's not gonna
sound like a high-end product but this is ridiculous.
How were you listening to your music? Maybe you can still tune it a
bit by running the card fixed at 48kHz and play your music with a good
resampling soundfile player. I'd recommend mocp (Music On Console) for
this, it's using libsamplerate and you can configure the quality of
the resample algorithm. Or, if money allows, get a good sounding PCI
card. The M-Audio Audiophile is very good and well shielded, too, so
you won't hear the fans. On *bay it may be available cheap as well.
PCI cards tend to be cheaper for comparable quality than USB cards.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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6:21 p.m.
I'm not 100% sure of this so take it with a grain of sand but I
believe that most DVD audio is 48K. (Which is why PC systems are
making the shift for entertainment reasons.) Anyway, if you have any
DVD audio, or even the sound track from a movie played through xine,
etc., then doing a comparison would be interesting. (To me anyway...)
:-)
Cheers,
Mark
On 9/5/07, Bearcat M. Sandor <HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
Frank,
Good point. Thank you. Changing the sample-rate may do it. I fear it's
still gonna sound crappy even compared to my on-board nvidia sound. I'll
try it though.
So, if i were to get a higher-end sound card like an RME that might be
shielded enough to avoid the fan hums? I'm gonna get things as quiet
inside my case as possible, but i'll need *some* fans even if they are
large and slow.
Bearcat M. Sandor
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
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Thank you. The would explain the harshness i am
hearing too. It actually
hurts. I have to turn the volume way down from where i usually listen,
and
i don't listen that loud anyway. I mean, granted i now it's not gonna
sound like a high-end product but this is ridiculous.
How were you listening to your music? Maybe you can still tune it a
bit by running the card fixed at 48kHz and play your music with a good
resampling soundfile player. I'd recommend mocp (Music On Console) for
this, it's using libsamplerate and you can configure the quality of
the resample algorithm. Or, if money allows, get a good sounding PCI
card. The M-Audio Audiophile is very good and well shielded, too, so
you won't hear the fans. On *bay it may be available cheap as well.
PCI cards tend to be cheaper for comparable quality than USB cards.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
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6:41 p.m.
Am Mittwoch, 5. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M. Sandor:
So, if i were to get a higher-end sound card like an
RME that might be
shielded enough to avoid the fan hums? I'm gonna get things as quiet
inside my case as possible, but i'll need *some* fans even if they are
large and slow.
Most (all?) internal soundcards don't pick up the acoustic sound of the fans
but the electric noise of fan, disks (cd/dvd included), mouse, key,
everything that send digital data through a poor shielded or unshielded cable
inside the computer. That is what you hear if the soundcard doesn't provide
enough shielding itself. And sometimes (read on some soundcards) you can even
hear the power fluctuating when fans/processors/disks need more/less power.
That is the added effect why I think external soundcards (with external
power?) are better then internal ones.
BTW: I get similar effects in my internal sblive as you with your external sb
extigy...
Arnold
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7:04 p.m.
Arnold,
Right. It's the electric noise i'm referring to. My next box will have
only a few 120mm slow fans, a smaller power supply and a cooler running
chips and a big case. This will quiet down my environment too. I'm not a
gamer or an overclocker. I'm an audiophile. Why i felt i needed to buy an
SLI system is beyond me.
If i were to just use the digital out on my motherboard and an external
D/A none of that noise would be transfered would it? Would the power
fluctuations affect that set-up even with a word clock (master + slave)?
If you're hearing the same thing i am, then it can't just be the bit rate
conversions. I'm thinking there is an exceptionally poor D/A converter in
there in the first place.
Also, if you're hearing what i am, how can you stand it?
I'm asking all of these questions, not just because i am an audiophile
snob, but because i want to learn as much as i can about this stuff.
Thank you,
Bearcat M. Sandor
Am Mittwoch, 5. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M.
Sandor:
So, if i were to get a higher-end sound card like
an RME that might be
shielded enough to avoid the fan hums? I'm gonna get things as quiet
inside my case as possible, but i'll need *some* fans even if they are
large and slow.
Most (all?) internal soundcards don't pick up the acoustic sound of the
fans
but the electric noise of fan, disks (cd/dvd included), mouse, key,
everything that send digital data through a poor shielded or unshielded
cable
inside the computer. That is what you hear if the soundcard doesn't
provide
enough shielding itself. And sometimes (read on some soundcards) you can
even
hear the power fluctuating when fans/processors/disks need more/less
power.
That is the added effect why I think external soundcards (with external
power?) are better then internal ones.
BTW: I get similar effects in my internal sblive as you with your external
sb
extigy...
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
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Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and
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6 Sep
6 Sep
6:04 a.m.
Am Mittwoch, 5. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M. Sandor:
If you're hearing the same thing i am, then it
can't just be the bit rate
conversions. I'm thinking there is an exceptionally poor D/A converter in
there in the first place.
I think it has to do with the converters (maybe both DA and resampling) but it
only seem to happen at higher volumes. So I am turning the volume down to 80%
on master and 80% on PCM and leave it there.
And on the sblive the converters for rear are better then the front ones,
because front (and line-in and mic-in connected at the board) are feed
through a ac97 while the rear-channels and all the external plugs on the
livedrive are through the emu10k1.
Also, if you're hearing what i am, how can you
stand it?
I don't use the full volume scale. And for professional use I do have two
external devices :-) (Tascam US-122 (anyone interested in buying it?) and a
Presonus FirePod)
I'm asking all of these questions, not just
because i am an audiophile
snob, but because i want to learn as much as i can about this stuff.
Hey, if you are an audiophile snob, maybe I can sell you some
extra-super-duper extremely high quality cables(*)?
Sorry, was temporarily trapped in irony-mode for the last paragraph. :-)
Arnold
(*) Of course they are unshielded. Shielding on these class of cables costs
extra...
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6:31 a.m.
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:03:49 +0200
Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
Hey, if you are an audiophile snob, maybe I can sell
you some
extra-super-duper extremely high quality cables(*)?
Sorry, was temporarily trapped in irony-mode for the last paragraph. :-)
Arnold
(*) Of course they are unshielded. Shielding on these class of cables costs
extra...
But are the plugs the same metal as the conductors? You *do* know that
dissimilar metals can create a DC voltage :)
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
1:58 p.m.
Arnold,
Strange that they'd use one set of drivers for the front and rear. Huh. I try
to keep my volume down at those levels too and it does seem to make a
difference.
Can you explain why we seem to have 2 "Master" sliders and 2 "Line-In"
sliders?
Strangely enough, i was so distressed by the sound yesterday that i took it
out of the system and re-introduced my Nvidia chip-set ("Hi, Nvidia meet my
Carver amp. Again."), When i listened to it carefully it only sounded a
little better, but more to the point the smoke damage was showing again with
channel drop-outs.
So i re-reintroduced the SB ("Hey SB meet my Carver amp. Again." Carver:
"Will
you quit talking to me?! I'm just trying to sit here an hum by myself"). I
recompiled my kernel and alsa-libs and fired it up. It actually sounded OK.
Then i played a track through mplayer with a switch of -srate 48000 and it
sounded better still.
I donno why i sounds better this time, but hearing is *so* based on
expectations. It's not great, but it will do till i can afford something
better. I wonder how much better the M-Audo Audiophile sounds?
As far as your Tascam goes i might consider that. How much do you want for it
and how much higher is the sound quality? All i need is stereo out + line-in
for mythtv.
Thanks,
Bearcat
On Thursday 06 September 2007 in an email titled "Re: [LAU] How much does my
new SB Extigy suck and why?" Arnold Krille wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 5. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M.
Sandor:
If you're hearing the same thing i am, then
it can't just be the bit rate
conversions. I'm thinking there is an exceptionally poor D/A converter in
there in the first place.
I think it has to do with the converters (maybe both DA and resampling) but
it only seem to happen at higher volumes. So I am turning the volume down
to 80% on master and 80% on PCM and leave it there.
And on the sblive the converters for rear are better then the front ones,
because front (and line-in and mic-in connected at the board) are feed
through a ac97 while the rear-channels and all the external plugs on the
livedrive are through the emu10k1.
Also, if you're hearing what i am, how can
you stand it?
I don't use the full volume scale. And for professional use I do have two
external devices :-) (Tascam US-122 (anyone interested in buying it?) and a
Presonus FirePod)
I'm asking all of these questions, not just
because i am an audiophile
snob, but because i want to learn as much as i can about this stuff.
Hey, if you are an audiophile snob, maybe I can sell you some
extra-super-duper extremely high quality cables(*)?
Sorry, was temporarily trapped in irony-mode for the last paragraph. :-)
Arnold
(*) Of course they are unshielded. Shielding on these class of cables costs
extra... 
2:56 p.m.
Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Arnold,
Strange that they'd use one set of drivers for the front and rear. Huh. I try
to keep my volume down at those levels too and it does seem to make a
difference.
Can you explain why we seem to have 2 "Master" sliders and 2
"Line-In"
sliders?
Strangely enough, i was so distressed by the sound yesterday that i took it
out of the system and re-introduced my Nvidia chip-set ("Hi, Nvidia meet my
Carver amp. Again."), When i listened to it carefully it only sounded a
little better, but more to the point the smoke damage was showing again with
channel drop-outs.
So i re-reintroduced the SB ("Hey SB meet my Carver amp. Again." Carver:
"Will
you quit talking to me?! I'm just trying to sit here an hum by myself"). I
recompiled my kernel and alsa-libs and fired it up. It actually sounded OK.
Then i played a track through mplayer with a switch of -srate 48000 and it
sounded better still.
Hmmm.... Now I think I recall something. It's rather vaige, but might be
a clue:
On the SBLive, the sound was awful (kinda like you describe it), after
I'd first install Linux. According to something I found on google, I had
to switch off some tone controller in the mixer. Not shure if it showes
up in the standard gnome/kde/etc mixers, but try with alsamixer or
alsamixergui to see all of the controls. As far as I remember it was a
switch with needed to be turned off, not a slidebar. And it had
something to do with tone control (bass/treble). The problem had to do
with the bass/treble being at max by default, as far as I recall.
Hope this can give you a clue..
--
Ringheims Auto - Fri musikk for bilstereo!
http://ringheimsauto.org
3 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 06:55:46PM +0200, Johannes Mario Ringheim wrote:
Hmmm.... Now I think I recall something. It's
rather vaige, but might be a
clue:
On the SBLive, the sound was awful (kinda like you describe it), after I'd
first install Linux. According to something I found on google, I had to
switch off some tone controller in the mixer. Not shure if it showes up in
the standard gnome/kde/etc mixers, but try with alsamixer or alsamixergui
to see all of the controls. As far as I remember it was a switch with
needed to be turned off, not a slidebar. And it had something to do with
tone control (bass/treble). The problem had to do with the bass/treble
being at max by default, as far as I recall.
Along the same lines, if there is anything like a "3D" control, make
sure it's muted.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
7:09 p.m.
Am Donnerstag, 6. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M. Sandor:
Strange that they'd use one set of drivers for the
front and rear.
That is not strange: By using the AC97 they get a completely(?) developed
product with all the compatibility (= Lots of features and benefits for less
cost). They just extend it with their own features by adding their emu10k1 on
the board.
Huh. I
try to keep my volume down at those levels too and it does seem to make a
difference.
I really think its some clipping happening because of the resampling...
Sometimes (before my good devices) I mastered in 48kHz and all sounded well.
Downsampling to 44.1kHz for CD gave me horrible high noise/distortion on
rehearsal at the same volume which made me check the 48kHz material (which
was okay).
Can you explain why we seem to have 2
"Master" sliders and 2 "Line-In"
sliders?
I have even more "Line-In"s because of the livedrive :-)
I donno why i sounds better this time, but hearing is
*so* based on
expectations. It's not great, but it will do till i can afford something
better. I wonder how much better the M-Audo Audiophile sounds?
Well, the Audiophile should give you another step in quality...
As far as your Tascam goes i might consider that. How
much do you want for
it and how much higher is the sound quality? All i need is stereo out +
line-in for mythtv.
Hm, the tascam has stereo in and out. The only problem with (my) Tascam is
that the input-amplifiers break regularly. And of course the
warranty-timespan is over and one input-preamp is broken again. So the first
channel can only be used from the insert-point on.
Where do you live and what do you want to pay for a (half- / third-) broken
Tascam?
I am not yet confident with the thought of selling it because the firepod in
its rack is much harder to transport and doesn't allow for field-recordings
just with the laptop. But maybe I lend/sell the tascam to a friend who plays
guitar and might be interested in using linux (and a pc) as effect-stack...
Arnold
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After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
7:34 p.m.
Arnold,
The 2 master sliders are strange. They seem to both adjust the volume, bu
tone of them does so in finer increments then the other.
As far as the 48khz goes it does seem that clipping was what i was hearing
(hence the uncomfortable sound) and resampling does alleviate that. I
wonder if it's possible to up-sample the bitrate too, so that i am going
from 16/44.1 to 24/48.
As far as the Tascam goes, i'd say give it to your friend. I need stable
inputs for Mythtv. Thank you for the offer though.
Bearcat M. Sandor
Am Donnerstag, 6. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M.
Sandor:
Strange that they'd use one set of drivers
for the front and rear.
That is not strange: By using the AC97 they get a completely(?) developed
product with all the compatibility (= Lots of features and benefits for
less
cost). They just extend it with their own features by adding their emu10k1
on
the board.
Huh. I
try to keep my volume down at those levels too and it does seem to make
a
difference.
I really think its some clipping happening because of the resampling...
Sometimes (before my good devices) I mastered in 48kHz and all sounded
well.
Downsampling to 44.1kHz for CD gave me horrible high noise/distortion on
rehearsal at the same volume which made me check the 48kHz material (which
was okay).
Can you explain why we seem to have 2
"Master" sliders and 2 "Line-In"
sliders?
I have even more "Line-In"s because of the livedrive :-)
I donno why i sounds better this time, but
hearing is *so* based on
expectations. It's not great, but it will do till i can afford
something
better. I wonder how much better the M-Audo Audiophile sounds?
Well, the Audiophile should give you another step in quality...
As far as your Tascam goes i might consider that.
How much do you want
for
it and how much higher is the sound quality? All i need is stereo out +
line-in for mythtv.
Hm, the tascam has stereo in and out. The only problem with (my) Tascam is
that the input-amplifiers break regularly. And of course the
warranty-timespan is over and one input-preamp is broken again. So the
first
channel can only be used from the insert-point on.
Where do you live and what do you want to pay for a (half- / third-)
broken
Tascam?
I am not yet confident with the thought of selling it because the firepod
in
its rack is much harder to transport and doesn't allow for
field-recordings
just with the laptop. But maybe I lend/sell the tascam to a friend who
plays
guitar and might be interested in using linux (and a pc) as
effect-stack...
Arnold
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5 Sep
5 Sep
8 p.m.
Hallo,
Arnold Krille hat gesagt: // Arnold Krille wrote:
Most (all?) internal soundcards don't pick up the
acoustic sound of
the fans but the electric noise of fan, disks (cd/dvd included),
mouse, key, everything that send digital data through a poor
shielded or unshielded cable inside the computer. That is what you
hear if the soundcard doesn't provide enough shielding itself. And
sometimes (read on some soundcards) you can even hear the power
fluctuating when fans/processors/disks need more/less power.
That is the added effect why I think external soundcards (with
external power?) are better then internal ones.
I've *never* had this problem with my M-Audio Audiophile, and I have
loud good speakers and headphones so I'm sure I would have heard it.
(Semi-pro) PCI-soundcards generally are free from intercepting
electrical noise. Otherwise you'd have to close down most sound
studios and our radio station: there are PCI cards all over, but not a
single USB card in sight.
Of course one thing that's strictly forbidden would be to run a cable
from the CD/DVD drive to the soundcard as this acts as an antenna to
pick up noise. But only "consumer cards" even have a connector for
this junk, most internal semi-pro soundcards starting at around 70
Euro like the Terratec Phase22, M-Audio Audiophile, ESI etc. don't
and they are shielded well enough to not pick up noise.
Onboard cards are a different story: For laptops I've yet to find a
machine that wouldn't need an external USB/FW-box.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
10 Sep
10 Sep
2:16 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
Arnold Krille hat gesagt: // Arnold Krille wrote:
I've had some hum problems while recording audio with a PCI E-MU 0404.
In the same box, with an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile, the sound was
pristine. All coming out through a set of 8" M-Audio far-field monitors.
The Audiophile was a great experience, while the E-MU was very
disappointing, even though the on-board DSP is nice.
Most (all?) internal soundcards don't pick up
the acoustic sound of
the fans but the electric noise of fan, disks (cd/dvd included),
mouse, key, everything that send digital data through a poor
shielded or unshielded cable inside the computer. That is what you
hear if the soundcard doesn't provide enough shielding itself. And
sometimes (read on some soundcards) you can even hear the power
fluctuating when fans/processors/disks need more/less power.
That is the added effect why I think external soundcards (with
external power?) are better then internal ones.
I've *never* had this problem with my M-Audio Audiophile, and I have
loud good speakers and headphones so I'm sure I would have heard it.
(Semi-pro) PCI-soundcards generally are free from intercepting
electrical noise. Otherwise you'd have to close down most sound
studios and our radio station: there are PCI cards all over, but not a
single USB card in sight. Of course one thing that's strictly forbidden
would be to run a cable
from the CD/DVD drive to the soundcard as this acts as an antenna to
pick up noise. But only "consumer cards" even have a connector for
this junk, most internal semi-pro soundcards starting at around 70
Euro like the Terratec Phase22, M-Audio Audiophile, ESI etc. don't
and they are shielded well enough to not pick up noise.
Onboard cards are a different story: For laptops I've yet to find a
machine that wouldn't need an external USB/FW-box.
Ciao
Cassiano
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5 Sep
5 Sep
8:15 p.m.
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
So, if i were to get a higher-end sound card like an
RME that might be
shielded enough to avoid the fan hums?
I consider a RME way overkill for that (unless you need that many
channels). Just try to sell the Extigy, get the Audiophile or
Terratec PHASE 22 instead and be happy without humming. ;)
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
8:51 p.m.
Actually just being higher-end is no solution.
They will pick up noise, and it depends primarily on how the internals of
your case are layed out, example...
I have an RME HDSP 9632. I originally had it in the PCI slot on my MB that
was right next to the video card, had it there as it was the only straight
PCI slot. It picked up interference from the video card. Moved it to a
PCI-X slot on the other side of the case, interference is gone.
The cards themselves are not shielded from interference, though they might
do a better job of rejecting it naturally I suppose, though I don't know of
a way they would. You still need to keep it in mind and lay out your case
sensibly, especially if you are getting interference.
Seablade
On 9/5/07, Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
So, if i were to get a higher-end sound card like
an RME that might be
shielded enough to avoid the fan hums?
I consider a RME way overkill for that (unless you need that many
channels). Just try to sell the Extigy, get the Audiophile or
Terratec PHASE 22 instead and be happy without humming. ;)
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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6 Sep
6 Sep
5:55 a.m.
Am Donnerstag, 6. September 2007 schrieb Thomas Vecchione:
The cards themselves are not shielded from
interference, though they might
do a better job of rejecting it naturally I suppose, though I don't know of
a way they would.
There are several ways to do shielding just in board-layout. They can use
symmetric connections when possible and run the two lines directly alongside.
And for asymmetric connections they can have the ground just left and right
of the signal line to get shielding...
Arnold
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5 Sep
5 Sep
7:10 p.m.
On 9/5/07, Bearcat M. Sandor <HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
Chip,
Thank you. The would explain the harshness i am hearing too. It actually
hurts. I have to turn the volume way down from where i usually listen, and
i don't listen that loud anyway. I mean, granted i now it's not gonna
sound like a high-end product but this is ridiculous.
I suppose they are only testing on computer desktop speakers where you
wouldn't even hear the grain.
No they assume Windows which does decent quality resampling in kernel-space.
The long term solution IMHO is for ALSA to select a higher quality
resampler by default.
Short term solution is to use an app that does its own high quality
resampling and always run the card at 48Khz.
Lee
6 Sep
6 Sep
4:35 a.m.
Lee Revell wrote:
No they assume Windows which does decent quality
resampling in kernel-space.
The long term solution IMHO is for ALSA to select a higher quality
resampler by default.
Short term solution is to use an app that does its own high quality
resampling and always run the card at 48Khz.
I had a SBLive something, wich is pre-Extigy. I never had the problem he
describes, at least not to that extent. Sound quality may have been
poor, but only in an audiophile point of view, generally it sounded good
enough and there were no audible regressions of the upper frequencies or
any other artifacts. This was on windows, linux, jack and any other
program I used. Jack had a problem with resampling, but this was totally
different.
PS: Lee: I'm not saying you're not right about the resampler in alsa,
but my experience with an older Creative card suggests that this is not
the problem for Bearcat.
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
21 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Arnold Krille -
Bearcat M. Sandor -
Cassiano Bertol Leal -
Chip VanDan -
Folderol -
Frank Barknecht -
Johannes Mario Ringheim -
Lee Revell -
Mark Knecht -
Paul Winkler -
Thomas Vecchione