12 Feb
2006
12 Feb
'06
8:49 p.m.
A few weeks ago I posted a recording of a piece for piano I was
composing:
Arabesque 1, for piano (work in progress)
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/arabesque1.ogg
At that time there was little but one primary melodic/harmonic motive. I
have since fleshed-out and completed the piece:
Arabesque 1, for piano (complete/final)
OGG:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.ogg
MP3:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/mp3/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.mp3
Recorded in one uninterrupted (no punch-ins/punch-outs) "take" (out of
many failed attempts with one or two mistakes ;-) into Ardour at 48,000
sample rate, mastered through Jamin the output of which was recorded
back into Ardour, then exported as a .wav at 41,000 sample rate with
"shaped noise" dither, encoded with lame (mp3) and oggenc (ogg).
Ardour and Jamin--what great software.
Steve D
New Mexico, US
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
The three things every person needs, gay or straight, are to be
a realist about themselves, an optimist about what life can
bring them, and willing to take what they're handed and make it
work. -Krikit
----------------------------------------------------------------
12 Feb
12 Feb
9:08 p.m.
That's awesome! I love it.
ron
--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
__________________________________________________
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A few weeks ago I posted a recording of a piece for
piano I was
composing:
Arabesque 1, for piano (work in progress)
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/arabesque1.ogg
At that time there was little but one primary
melodic/harmonic motive. I
have since fleshed-out and completed the piece:
Arabesque 1, for piano (complete/final)
OGG:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.ogg
MP3:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/mp3/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.mp3
Recorded in one uninterrupted (no
punch-ins/punch-outs) "take" (out of
many failed attempts with one or two mistakes ;-)
into Ardour at 48,000
sample rate, mastered through Jamin the output of
which was recorded
back into Ardour, then exported as a .wav at 41,000
sample rate with
"shaped noise" dither, encoded with lame (mp3) and
oggenc (ogg).
Ardour and Jamin--what great software.
Steve D
New Mexico, US
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
The three things every person needs, gay or
straight, are to be
a realist about themselves, an optimist about what
life can
bring them, and willing to take what they're handed
and make it
work. -Krikit
----------------------------------------------------------------
13 Feb
13 Feb
2:48 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 05:08:13PM -0800, R Parker wrote:
That's awesome! I love it.
ron
Thank you very much Ron. I'm happy with the piece, but I'll probably try
to record a better performance of it. "I'm not a perfectionist, I'm an
idealist. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm an idealist..." ;-)
-sd
--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
Arabesque 1, for piano (complete/final)
OGG:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.ogg
MP3:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/mp3/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.mp3
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Actual political quote-- "We do not have censorship. What we have
is a limitation on what newspapers can report."
----------------------------------------------------------------
2:59 p.m.
Steve D wrote:
On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 05:08:13PM -0800, R Parker
wrote:
Me too. :-)
That's awesome! I love it.
ron
Thank you very much Ron. I'm happy with the piece,
but I'll probably try
to record a better performance of it. "I'm not a perfectionist, I'm an
idealist. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm an idealist..." ;-)
-sd
Saludos.
--Carlos
--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
Arabesque 1, for piano (complete/final)
OGG:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.ogg
MP3:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/mp3/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.mp3
3:32 p.m.
--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/mp3/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.mp3
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 05:08:13PM -0800, R Parker
wrote:
Punchins aren't illegal and anyone can engineer for
you in a non-destructive DAW like Ardour. If you don't
tell anyone about the punchin then you can move on to
composing and producing another song which makes
everybody happy. :)
ron
That's awesome! I love it.
ron
Thank you very much Ron. I'm happy with the piece,
but I'll probably try
to record a better performance of it. "I'm not a
perfectionist, I'm an
idealist. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm an
idealist..." ;-) -sd
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.ogg
--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
Arabesque 1, for piano (complete/final)
OGG:
MP3:
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Actual political quote-- "We do not have
censorship.
What we have
is a limitation on what newspapers can report."
----------------------------------------------------------------
3:47 p.m.
R Parker wrote:
--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
And they've been around way before DAWs. Even Miles Davis used to cut &
past his and his fellow musicians studio performances at the end of his
career.
c.
--
www.cesaremarilungo.com
On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 05:08:13PM -0800, R
Parker
wrote:
Punchins aren't illegal and anyone can engineer for
you in a non-destructive DAW like Ardour. If you don't
tell anyone about the punchin then you can move on to
composing and producing another song which makes
everybody happy. :)
ron
That's awesome! I love it.
ron
Thank you very much Ron. I'm happy with the piece,
but I'll probably try
to record a better performance of it. "I'm not a
perfectionist, I'm an
idealist. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm an
idealist..." ;-)
-sd
>--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
>Arabesque 1, for piano (complete/final)
>OGG:
>
>
>
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.ogg
>MP3:
>
>
>
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/mp3/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.mp3
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Actual political quote-- "We do not have
censorship.
What we have
is a limitation on what newspapers can report."
----------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
4:04 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 11:32:42AM -0800, R Parker wrote:
Punchins aren't illegal and anyone can engineer
for
you in a non-destructive DAW like Ardour. If you don't
tell anyone about the punchin then you can move on to
composing and producing another song which makes
everybody happy. :)
ron
--- ---
I guess my (irrational) fear is that a punchin/punchout will somehow be
obvious to the listener--that either there will be an abrupt momentary
change in ambience, an abrupt cutting off of pre-punchin sound as the
punchin occurs, or I'll be in a slightly different mood and the volume
or performance won't match, etc. I have been able (I think) to hear
punchins in old analog tape recordings, of Van Cliburn playing the
Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov piano concertos, of an obscure (but good)
eastern European orchestra playing Stravinsky's Firebird (there were
*lots* of punchins, some of them very obvious and awkward, in that
recording), and so my listening experience has made me wary of punchins.
But, like I mentioned, I'm sure it is an irrational fear. ;-)
During this recording (for Arabesque 1), I made a strong note to myself
after recording take after take (dozens of them) to learn about and
begin to try punchin techniques. I'm especially interested to learn
whether Ardour automatically creates (or can be configured to do so)
brief overlapping fadeouts/fadeins at punch points. I'm sure that this
information is in the (as yet not fully read) Ardour online manual. ;-)
In fact, I think I'll check that out right now--
-sd
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
History from a 10 year old: "Beethoven wrote music even though
he was deaf. He was so deaf that he wrote loud music and became
the father of rock and roll. He took long walks in the forest
even when everyone was calling for him. Beethoven expired in
1827 and later died for this."
----------------------------------------------------------------
4:13 p.m.
On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 13:04 -0700, Steve D wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 11:32:42AM -0800, R Parker
wrote:
This isn't necessarily a problem - Guided by Voices had a brilliant
career but their albums are rife with sloppy drunken 4-track edits ;-)
Lee
Punchins aren't illegal and anyone can
engineer for
you in a non-destructive DAW like Ardour. If you don't
tell anyone about the punchin then you can move on to
composing and producing another song which makes
everybody happy. :)
ron
--- ---
I guess my (irrational) fear is that a punchin/punchout will somehow be
obvious to the listener--that either there will be an abrupt momentary
change in ambience, an abrupt cutting off of pre-punchin sound as the
punchin occurs, or I'll be in a slightly different mood and the volume
or performance won't match, etc. 
15 Feb
15 Feb
2:48 a.m.
Lee Revell escribe:
This isn't necessarily a problem - Guided by
Voices had a brilliant
career but their albums are rife with sloppy drunken 4-track edits ;-)
It's well known that The Beatles started recording using 4-track just
before they released Sgt. Peeper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. This means
that milestones like Rubber Soul and Revolver were recorded using
2-track.
Of course, the rest of their equipment at Abbey Road was top-class.
Cordially, Ismael
--
Dropping science like when Galileo dropped his orange
http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt/
3:15 a.m.
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:33:50 +0100, Ismael Valladolid Torres was like:
It's well known that The Beatles started recording
using 4-track
just before they released Sgt. Peeper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
This means that milestones like Rubber Soul and Revolver were
recorded using 2-track.
Actually, EMI Studios (Abbey Road) had a 4-track machine by 1963, and The Beatles were
using it by 1964 at the latest, well before they recorded Rubber Soul or Revolver.
Of course, the rest of their equipment at Abbey Road was top-class.
So was the 4-track. <g>
Ruben
10:13 a.m.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:15:52PM -0800, Ruben Lopez wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:33:50 +0100, Ismael Valladolid
Torres was like:
Not to mention the engineering skill, the acoustics,
and oh yeah, the musicians ;-)
What's amazing to me is that they didn't have access to an 8-track
until the White Album. Listen to something like
"I Am the Walrus" or "Tomorrow Never Knows" and imagine creating that
on
a 4-track.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Of course, the rest of their equipment at Abbey
Road was top-class.
So was the 4-track. <g> 
11:55 a.m.
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:15:52PM -0800, Ruben Lopez
wrote:
perhaps bouncing was their friend.
--
Brad Fuller
(408) 799-6124
** Sonaural Audio Studios **
(408) 799-6123 West San Jose
(408) 799-6124 Cambrian
________________________________
Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:33:50 +0100, Ismael
Valladolid Torres was like:
Not to mention the engineering skill, the acoustics,
and oh yeah, the musicians ;-)
What's amazing to me is that they didn't have access to an 8-track
until the White Album. Listen to something like
"I Am the Walrus" or "Tomorrow Never Knows" and imagine creating that
on
a 4-track.
Of course, the rest of their equipment at Abbey
Road was top-class.
So was the 4-track. <g>
12:08 p.m.
On 2/15/06, Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> wrote:
yeah, I believe they commonly would fill up one 4-track, then bounce
it to one or two tracks of their other 4-track, fill that one up, and
do it again. man, i just wasn't made for those times.
--
dan(a)towndowner.com dan(a)burntpossum.com daneasley(a)gmail.com
http://towndowner.com http://burntpossum.com
What's
amazing to me is that they didn't have access to an 8-track
until the White Album. Listen to something like
"I Am the Walrus" or "Tomorrow Never Knows" and imagine creating that
on
a 4-track.
perhaps bouncing was their friend.
1:02 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 11:08:21AM -0500, Dan Easley wrote:
On 2/15/06, Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com>
wrote:
yeah, I believe they commonly would fill up one 4-track, then bounce
it to one or two tracks of their other 4-track, fill that one up, and
do it again. man, i just wasn't made for those times.
Yes. You had to be really, really good at creating submixes,
because once you'd comitted to one, you couldn't do it over
without throwing away all your later work.
It helped that these 4-track machines were then state-of-the-art
reel-to-reel devices. If you tried all that bouncing on a
cassette portastudio, it'd sound like utter crap real quick.
All hiss and no treble makes your mix a dull bore.
The other trick the Beatles had up their sleeve was
one of their engineers invention of automatick doubling:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_double_tracking
Of course, the real pioneer of all this stuff was Les Paul.
He was bouncing eight guitar parts in 1947 on wax discs.
He invented and paid for Ampex to build him an eight-track reel to reel
overdub-capable machine in 1954. Nobody else had eight tracks
until the mid sixties.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
What's amazing to me is that they didn't have access to an 8-track
until the White Album. Listen to something like
"I Am the Walrus" or "Tomorrow Never Knows" and imagine creating that
on
a 4-track.
perhaps bouncing was their friend.
2:28 p.m.
More interesting links for historical context:
http://www.answers.com/topic/tom-dowd?method=8
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/oldtimers/TomDowd.html
ron
--- Paul Winkler <pw_lists(a)slinkp.com> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 11:08:21AM -0500, Dan Easley
wrote:
yeah, I believe they commonly would fill up one 4-track, then bounce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_double_tracking
On 2/15/06, Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com>
wrote:
> > What's amazing to me is that they didn't have
access to an
8-track
> > until the White Album. Listen to
something
like
> > "I Am the Walrus" or
"Tomorrow Never Knows"
and imagine creating that on
a 4-track.
perhaps bouncing was their friend. it to one or two tracks of their other 4-track,
fill that one up, and
do it again. man, i just wasn't made for
those
times.
Yes. You had to be really, really good at creating
submixes,
because once you'd comitted to one, you couldn't do
it over
without throwing away all your later work.
It helped that these 4-track machines were then
state-of-the-art
reel-to-reel devices. If you tried all that
bouncing on a
cassette portastudio, it'd sound like utter crap
real quick.
All hiss and no treble makes your mix a dull bore.
The other trick the Beatles had up their sleeve was
one of their engineers invention of automatick
doubling:
Of course, the real pioneer of all this stuff was
Les Paul.
He was bouncing eight guitar parts in 1947 on wax
discs.
He invented and paid for Ampex to build him an
eight-track reel to reel
overdub-capable machine in 1954. Nobody else had
eight tracks
until the mid sixties.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
3:34 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 10:28:11AM -0800, R Parker wrote:
More interesting links for historical context:
http://www.answers.com/topic/tom-dowd?method=8
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/oldtimers/TomDowd.html
Good stuff, I didn't know about Tom Dowd.
Sounds like he was way ahead of the curve on multitracking...
1958 was pretty damn early! So I was wrong about nobody but
Les Paul having an eight-track until the mid sixties.
But Les Paul was still first :)
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
4:58 p.m.
--- Paul Winkler <pw_lists(a)slinkp.com> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 10:28:11AM -0800, R Parker
wrote:
The Sundance channel broadcasts a Dowd Biography. He's
got an awesome story.
So I was wrong about
More interesting links for historical context:
http://www.answers.com/topic/tom-dowd?method=8
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/oldtimers/TomDowd.html
Good stuff, I didn't know about Tom Dowd.
Sounds like he was way ahead of the curve on
multitracking...
1958 was pretty damn early! nobody but
Les Paul having an eight-track until the mid
sixties.
But Les Paul was still first :)
There's no diminishing Les Paul's contribution. The
man is incredible. :)
ron
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
6:24 p.m.
On Wednesday 15 February 2006 14:13, Paul Winkler was like:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:15:52PM -0800, Ruben Lopez
wrote:
Nah, the musicians were crap. ;p
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:33:50 +0100, Ismael
Valladolid Torres was like:
Not to mention the engineering skill, the acoustics,
and oh yeah, the musicians ;-) Of course, the rest of their equipment at Abbey
Road was top-class.
So was the 4-track. <g> What's amazing to me is that they didn't have
access to an 8-track
until the White Album. Listen to something like
"I Am the Walrus" or "Tomorrow Never Knows" and imagine creating that
on
a 4-track.
Bounce, bounce, bounce ... bin there done that (something like, that is).
Really makes me appreciate cut 'n' paste you know.
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
7:09 p.m.
tim hall <tech(a)glastonburymusic.org.uk>uk>:
Bounce, bounce, bounce ... bin there done that
(something
like, that is). Really makes me appreciate cut 'n' paste
you know.
Now that'd be a nice poll: Who has old pre-computer tape stuff
with at least three bounces and who'd be willing to, erm,
share? Or should I say "attack"?
--
Wolfgang
7:29 p.m.
Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
share? Swap tapes?
My first work was on Ampex 300s. First 4-track stuff was on Ampex440
which I recorded my jazz quartet... not many bounces though... and I
can't remember that far back. Heck, I'd have to dig out the tapes... if
I can find them. Later I upgraded to MM1000 woohoo! (and, at times, even
edited the 2" tape). Lots of bounces when recording for commercials
(especially when there are 4-5 tracks for just drums.) (Later worked
with other machines like the MCI and Studer. I like the Ampex ATR1 but
it was fickle.) We are lucky that we don't have to calibrate our
software every morning.
brad
Bounce,
bounce, bounce ... bin there done that (something
like, that is). Really makes me appreciate cut 'n' paste
you know.
Now that'd be a nice poll: Who has old pre-computer tape stuff
with at least three bounces and who'd be willing to, erm,
share? Or should I say "attack"?
16 Feb
16 Feb
12:25 p.m.
Wolfgang Woehl escribe:
tim hall <tech(a)glastonburymusic.org.uk>uk>:
I don't have but I don't discard ending having if prices at eBay keep
falling.
Cordially, Ismael
--
Dropping science like when Galileo dropped his orange
http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt/
Bounce, bounce, bounce ... bin there done that
(something
like, that is). Really makes me appreciate cut 'n' paste
you know.
Now that'd be a nice poll: Who has old pre-computer tape stuff
with at least three bounces and who'd be willing to, erm,
share? Or should I say "attack"?
13 Feb
13 Feb
4:15 p.m.
--- Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 11:32:42AM -0800, R Parker
wrote:
There's not irrational fear in this. We definitely
hear "bad" punches. It's something you get good at;
play along with yourself, perform the puch-in and
punch-out then stop playing. Afterwards trim the
region in and outs so the punch can't be heard. And
start working on the new song. :)
I have been able (I
Punchins aren't illegal and anyone can
engineer
for
you in a non-destructive DAW like Ardour. If you
don't
tell anyone about the punchin then you can move
on
to
composing and producing another song which makes
everybody happy. :)
ron
--- ---
I guess my (irrational) fear is that a
punchin/punchout will somehow be
obvious to the listener--that either there will be
an abrupt momentary
change in ambience, an abrupt cutting off of
pre-punchin sound as the
punchin occurs, or I'll be in a slightly different
mood and the volume
or performance won't match, etc. think) to hear
punchins in old analog tape recordings, of Van
Cliburn playing the
Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov piano concertos, of an
obscure (but good)
eastern European orchestra playing Stravinsky's
Firebird (there were
*lots* of punchins, some of them very obvious and
awkward, in that
recording), and so my listening experience has made
me wary of punchins.
But, like I mentioned, I'm sure it is an irrational
fear. ;-)
During this recording (for Arabesque 1), I made a
strong note to myself
after recording take after take (dozens of them) to
learn about and
begin to try punchin techniques. I'm especially
interested to learn
whether Ardour automatically creates (or can be
configured to do so)
brief overlapping fadeouts/fadeins at punch points.
I'm sure that this
information is in the (as yet not fully read) Ardour
online manual. ;-)
In fact, I think I'll check that out right now--
Autopunch works. I manually punch everything so how it
works remains a mystery to me but playing along,
punching before and after shouldn't be a challange.
ron
-sd
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
History from a 10 year old: "Beethoven wrote
music
even though
he was deaf. He was so deaf that he wrote loud music
and became
the father of rock and roll. He took long walks in
the forest
even when everyone was calling for him. Beethoven
expired in
1827 and later died for this."
----------------------------------------------------------------
4:19 p.m.
Steve D wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 11:32:42AM -0800, R Parker
wrote:
There's another, way better, method. Just route your keyboard output to
a midi sequencer (muse or rosegarden) and then to the sampler.
In this way you can do punch-ins in midi, delete notes seamlessly merge
two or more performances and more.
c.
--
www.cesaremarilungo.com
Punchins aren't illegal and anyone can
engineer for
you in a non-destructive DAW like Ardour. If you don't
tell anyone about the punchin then you can move on to
composing and producing another song which makes
everybody happy. :)
ron
--- ---
I guess my (irrational) fear is that a punchin/punchout will somehow be
obvious to the listener--that either there will be an abrupt momentary
change in ambience, an abrupt cutting off of pre-punchin sound as the
punchin occurs, or I'll be in a slightly different mood and the volume
or performance won't match, etc. I have been able (I think) to hear
punchins in old analog tape recordings, of Van Cliburn playing the
Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov piano concertos, of an obscure (but good)
eastern European orchestra playing Stravinsky's Firebird (there were
*lots* of punchins, some of them very obvious and awkward, in that
recording), and so my listening experience has made me wary of punchins.
But, like I mentioned, I'm sure it is an irrational fear. ;-)
During this recording (for Arabesque 1), I made a strong note to myself
after recording take after take (dozens of them) to learn about and
begin to try punchin techniques. I'm especially interested to learn
whether Ardour automatically creates (or can be configured to do so)
brief overlapping fadeouts/fadeins at punch points. I'm sure that this
information is in the (as yet not fully read) Ardour online manual. ;-)
In fact, I think I'll check that out right now--
-sd
5:19 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Punchin/Punchout (was: More music)
Steve D mentioned an "irrational" fear of the punchin/punchout recording
technique. Ron Parker and Cesare Marilungo commented--
Ron Parker wrote:
We definitely hear "bad" punches. It's
something you get good at; play
along with yourself, perform the puch-in and punch-out then stop
playing. Afterwards trim the region in and outs so the punch can't be
heard.
Cesare Marilungo wrote:
There's another, way better, method. Just route
your keyboard output
to a midi sequencer (muse or rosegarden) and then to the sampler. In
this way you can do punch-ins in midi, delete notes seamlessly merge
two or more performances and more.
Thank you very much, Ron and Cesare. I'll try both approaches and
hopefully I'll learn how to exploit both the digital-audio and MIDI
punchin/punchout recording techniques.
Regarding the digital audio (rather than MIDI) approach, I'll try to
space the punchin and punchout points a little farther apart than I
normally would, to give me a greater choice *after* re-recording the
section as to exactly where I want the actual punch to occur. (I hadn't
thought of that, obvious though it may now seem. ;-)
Thank you,
-sd
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Actual political quote-- "I resent your insinuendoes."
----------------------------------------------------------------
6:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Punchin/Punchout (was: More music)
Regarding the digital audio (rather than MIDI)
approach, I'll try to
space the punchin and punchout points a little farther apart than I
normally would, to give me a greater choice *after* re-recording the
section as to exactly where I want the actual punch to occur. (I hadn't
thought of that, obvious though it may now seem. ;-)
i'm missing something probably, but why would you punch in/out on a daw
when you can just create a new track, play along during the section
you'd like to replace, and then cut/paste edit to replace the other
part?
6:44 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Punchin/Punchout (was: More music)
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 02:35:07PM -0800, Aaron Trumm wrote:
i'm missing something probably, but why would you
punch in/out on a daw
when you can just create a new track, play along during the section
you'd like to replace, and then cut/paste edit to replace the other
part?
The difference is that when you do a punch in/out, the DAW will
mute the part that is being replaced, while you can still hear
the parts before and after. And when punch in/out is not-destruc-
tive, so you can always move the new take to a separate track
and/or edit the X-fades as you want them. Best of both worlds.
--
FA
6:50 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Punchin/Punchout (was: More music)
--- Aaron Trumm <aaron(a)nquit.com> wrote:
Look at what you just did and consider that the band
is paying $35.00 an hour. There's no comparison.
When you lay down your instrument part I, engineer,
probably know every mistake you just made and will be
positioned at the first mistake and ready to punch in
before you can wipe the sweat off your forehead. It's
very, very easy with a DAW.
ron
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Regarding the
digital audio (rather than MIDI)
approach, I'll try to
space the punchin and punchout points a little
farther apart than I
normally would, to give me a greater choice
*after* re-recording the
section as to exactly where I want the actual
punch to occur. (I hadn't
thought of that, obvious though it may now seem.
;-)
i'm missing something probably, but why would you
punch in/out on a daw
when you can just create a new track, play along
during the section
you'd like to replace, and then cut/paste edit to
replace the other
part? 
7:24 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Punchin/Punchout (was: More music)
On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 14:35 -0800, Aaron Trumm wrote:
I've done both but the punch-in/out is supposed to do an automatic
crossfade (I think) to make the transition smoother. I may be totally
off base though. Maybe Jesse or someone can give us the straight data
on this.
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and
this we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
Regarding the
digital audio (rather than MIDI) approach, I'll try to
space the punchin and punchout points a little farther apart than I
normally would, to give me a greater choice *after* re-recording the
section as to exactly where I want the actual punch to occur. (I hadn't
thought of that, obvious though it may now seem. ;-)
i'm missing something probably, but why would you punch in/out on a daw
when you can just create a new track, play along during the section
you'd like to replace, and then cut/paste edit to replace the other
part? 
6:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Punchin/Punchout (was: More music)
On 2/13/06, Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote:
Steve D mentioned an "irrational" fear of
the punchin/punchout recording
technique. Ron Parker and Cesare Marilungo commented--
Ron Parker wrote:
Steve,
While not appropriate for all types of music a few times I've dealt
with bad punch-in problem by throwing a drum beat or some random sound
in where I needed it. I do stuff where random bits of percussion or
sound effects will not be totally out of place. This wouldn't be to
likely to work in the middle of a solo piano piece though.
I've also edited the digital audio sample by sample to sort of
cover up problems right at the boundary when it wasn't appropriate to
do a proper fade out / fade in.
Good luck,
Mark
We definitely hear "bad" punches.
It's something you get good at; play
along with yourself, perform the puch-in and punch-out then stop
playing. Afterwards trim the region in and outs so the punch can't be
heard.
Cesare Marilungo wrote:
There's another, way better, method. Just
route your keyboard output
to a midi sequencer (muse or rosegarden) and then to the sampler. In
this way you can do punch-ins in midi, delete notes seamlessly merge
two or more performances and more.
Thank you very much, Ron and Cesare. I'll try both approaches and
hopefully I'll learn how to exploit both the digital-audio and MIDI
punchin/punchout recording techniques.
Regarding the digital audio (rather than MIDI) approach, I'll try to
space the punchin and punchout points a little farther apart than I
normally would, to give me a greater choice *after* re-recording the
section as to exactly where I want the actual punch to occur. (I hadn't
thought of that, obvious though it may now seem. ;-)
Thank you,
-sd
5:33 p.m.
Steve D escribe:
I guess my (irrational) fear is that a
punchin/punchout will somehow be
obvious to the listener--that either there will be an abrupt momentary
change in ambience, an abrupt cutting off of pre-punchin sound as the
punchin occurs, or I'll be in a slightly different mood and the volume
or performance won't match, etc.
Don't overestimate the listener. :o)
Cordially, Ismael
--
Dropping science like when Galileo dropped his orange
http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt/
6:11 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 10:31:51PM +0100, Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote:
Steve D escribe:
And don't underestimate the musician. I've done thousands of punchin/outs
in the days of real physical tape (no region shifts then !), and seen e.g.
saxophone players redo just a few notes of a great solo without anyone
being able to spot the edit. But I agree this sort of destructive editing
was quite scary...
--
FA
I guess my (irrational) fear is that a
punchin/punchout will somehow be
obvious to the listener--that either there will be an abrupt momentary
change in ambience, an abrupt cutting off of pre-punchin sound as the
punchin occurs, or I'll be in a slightly different mood and the volume
or performance won't match, etc.
Don't overestimate the listener. :o)
16 Feb
16 Feb
12:21 p.m.
fons adriaensen escribe:
And don't underestimate the musician.
Never that! :)
Cordially, Ismael
--
Dropping science like when Galileo dropped his orange
http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt/
12 Feb
12 Feb
10:01 p.m.
Steve D wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a recording of a piece for
piano I was
composing:
Arabesque 1, for piano (work in progress)
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/arabesque1.ogg
At that time there was little but one primary melodic/harmonic motive. I
have since fleshed-out and completed the piece:
Arabesque 1, for piano (complete/final)
OGG:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/ogg/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.ogg
MP3:
http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/audio/mp3/steve-doonan_arabesque-1.mp3
Recorded in one uninterrupted (no punch-ins/punch-outs) "take" (out of
many failed attempts with one or two mistakes ;-) into Ardour at 48,000
sample rate, mastered through Jamin the output of which was recorded
back into Ardour, then exported as a .wav at 41,000 sample rate with
"shaped noise" dither, encoded with lame (mp3) and oggenc (ogg).
Ardour and Jamin--what great software.
Steve D
New Mexico, US
Thank you for this track.
It reminds me of Ludovico Einaudi, an italian pianist.
As I already said back then, I've liked the first version as well.
c.
--
www.cesaremarilungo.com
13 Feb
13 Feb
3:14 p.m.
Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com>om>:
Recorded in one uninterrupted (no
punch-ins/punch-outs)
"take" (out of many failed attempts with one or two
mistakes ;-) into Ardour at 48,000 sample rate, mastered
It's beautiful, Steve. Must have been exciting near the end of
the take.
--
Wolfgang
6916
days inactive
6920
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
33 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
Aaron Trumm -
Brad Fuller -
Carlos Pino -
Cesare Marilungo -
Dan Easley -
fons adriaensen -
Ismael Valladolid Torres -
Jan Depner -
Lee Revell -
Mark Knecht -
Paul Winkler -
R Parker -
Ruben Lopez -
Steve D -
tim hall -
Wolfgang Woehl