23 Feb
2009
23 Feb
'09
9:15 p.m.
Hi all,
Regarding recording accoustic guitars (regular steel string and bass)
is there a trick of some sort to minimize the sound of fingers sometimes
swishing on the strings ? A bit of Finger Ease gets rid of some, but
there's some of that sound that still creeps from time to time. Proper
technique might not always be a solution. I'm more thinking along the
lines of some notch filter but have no idea of the frequency (nor which
filter in Ardour) to use, that is, if it's worth a try. I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
Any suggestions/ideas welcomed.
Cheers.
23 Feb
23 Feb
9:34 p.m.
Haha ... and I was asking a friend the other day if it was possible to
INSERT that sound into a midi patch :) The answer, so far, has been "no".
Honestly, I think a little bit of string and fret noise usually adds to
the sound.
lanas wrote:
Hi all,
Regarding recording accoustic guitars (regular steel string and bass)
is there a trick of some sort to minimize the sound of fingers sometimes
swishing on the strings ? A bit of Finger Ease gets rid of some, but
there's some of that sound that still creeps from time to time. Proper
technique might not always be a solution. I'm more thinking along the
lines of some notch filter but have no idea of the frequency (nor which
filter in Ardour) to use, that is, if it's worth a try. I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
--
**** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bob(a)mellowood.ca
WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca
10:06 p.m.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:16:20 -0500
lanas <lanas(a)securenet.net> wrote:
I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
Spend some time to learn about mic placement and direction, and experiment
with what you have. Since the string noise comes from up on the neck,
try keeping the mic away from that area.
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
10:47 p.m.
Hmm... My classical guitar teacher and a couple of audio engineers I
had pleasure working with thought that placing mics near the neck was
providing a bit of brightness to the sound and balanced well the
body's tone. In those days I spent entire days practicing to minimize
the fret/string noise. Today I think that such noises add to the
charm of the music but i guess this is context and style dependent
(but I am also fond of music made exclusively of such "unwanted"
noises so I may not be the right reference in this context).
./MiS
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Joe Hartley <jh(a)brainiac.com> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:16:20 -0500
lanas <lanas(a)securenet.net> wrote:
--
./MiS
514-344-0726
http://www.creazone.ca
I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
Spend some time to learn about mic placement and direction, and experiment
with what you have. Since the string noise comes from up on the neck,
try keeping the mic away from that area.
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
10:56 p.m.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:47:34 -0500
Michal Seta <mis(a)artengine.ca> wrote:
Hmm... My classical guitar teacher and a couple of
audio engineers I
had pleasure working with thought that placing mics near the neck was
providing a bit of brightness to the sound and balanced well the
body's tone.
It'll certainly change the tone, it's all a matter of what you're trying
to bring out or de-emphasize in the performance.
In those days I spent entire days practicing to
minimize
the fret/string noise.
What, and make it easy to record???
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
26 Feb
26 Feb
12:44 p.m.
Michal Seta wrote:
Hmm... My classical guitar teacher and a couple of
audio engineers I
had pleasure working with thought that placing mics near the neck was
providing a bit of brightness to the sound and balanced well the
body's tone. In those days I spent entire days practicing to minimize
the fret/string noise. Today I think that such noises add to the
charm of the music but i guess this is context and style dependent
(but I am also fond of music made exclusively of such "unwanted"
noises so I may not be the right reference in this context).
chop, chop, says the master of vegetable noises :)
i'm with michal here - don't try to make it too clean. and don't deny
yourself the pleasure of pointing a second mike at the neck - lovely
tones to be found there.
forget the notch filter. the high-pitched squeaks are quite broadband.
if you're just two squeaks short of that multi-million-dollar hit
single, you can try to tackle them with an automated low-pass filter
which cuts in only when necessary (don't hack into the attack of the
following notes).
another very neat trick with guitars is to take two very small omni
capsules (like the sennheiser mke1 or 2), wrap them in a piece of felt
and tape them to the lower part of the guitar body, one at the height of
the bridge and one between sound hole and neck. very nice stereo effect
- you must mix them hard to the left and right, otherwise you'll get
horrible comb filters. if you want to combine those with a fuller sound,
use a large diaphragm pointing in roughly to the sound hole, and add the
small capsules with a strong high-pass for just some "stereo glitz".
will get you a followup job with the guitarist for sure :)
23 Feb
23 Feb
11:56 p.m.
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lanas wrote:
Hi all,
Regarding recording accoustic guitars (regular steel string and bass)
is there a trick of some sort to minimize the sound of fingers sometimes
swishing on the strings ? A bit of Finger Ease gets rid of some, but
there's some of that sound that still creeps from time to time. Proper
technique might not always be a solution. I'm more thinking along the
lines of some notch filter but have no idea of the frequency (nor which
filter in Ardour) to use, that is, if it's worth a try. I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
Any suggestions/ideas welcomed.
Cheers
Excuse me if this is something you already know perfectly well, but
most general-purpose microphones have a "cardioid" pick-up pattern -
shaped like an apple with the "working face" or end of the mic
pointing toward the "stem" or the round "bottom" beyond.
What that means in the context of your question is that if you point
the mic away from the neck and toward the sound hole and guitar top
(essentially parallel with the top, facing away from the neck), the
volume of noise generated in the vicinity of the fingerboard will be
minimized. You could even put a "shield" of something as simple as
cardboard on the side of the mic nearest the guitar neck.
If you were to point the microphone directly at the sound hole, or
even directly toward the guitar top or bridge, the left hand would be
solidly within its pick-up pattern and you'd clearly, as if intended,
record noises from that hand.
Frank
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24 Feb
24 Feb
4:45 a.m.
When you play guitar without recording you always "hear" some swishing...
but what you "listen" to is music.
I would never use a notch filter for that.
Killing a range of audible frequencies to avoid some natural swishes it's
not a good idea at all IMHO.
A better idea is to use the greasy skin (e.g. behind the ears :-) ) or
vaseline to lubricate the fingertips in order to minimize swishes.
r
2009/2/24 lanas <lanas(a)securenet.net>
Hi all,
Regarding recording accoustic guitars (regular steel string and bass)
is there a trick of some sort to minimize the sound of fingers sometimes
swishing on the strings ? A bit of Finger Ease gets rid of some, but
there's some of that sound that still creeps from time to time. Proper
technique might not always be a solution. I'm more thinking along the
lines of some notch filter but have no idea of the frequency (nor which
filter in Ardour) to use, that is, if it's worth a try. I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
Any suggestions/ideas welcomed.
Cheers.
5:36 a.m.
lanas wrote:
Hi all,
Regarding recording accoustic guitars (regular steel string and bass)
is there a trick of some sort to minimize the sound of fingers sometimes
swishing on the strings ? A bit of Finger Ease gets rid of some, but
there's some of that sound that still creeps from time to time. Proper
technique might not always be a solution. I'm more thinking along the
lines of some notch filter but have no idea of the frequency (nor which
filter in Ardour) to use, that is, if it's worth a try. I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
Any suggestions/ideas welcomed.
Cheers.
A better mike will give you a better recording of the finger noises. If
it's there, any mike will pick it up ;-)
Gordon
5:26 p.m.
Den Tuesday 24 February 2009 02:16:20 skrev lanas:
...
filter in Ardour) to use, that is, if it's worth a
try. I use a
M-Audio microphone, which might not be the best, but then I'd need some
convincing to believe that a top quality mic would actually do
something concerning this. Perhaps better focus on the sound source.
A cheap mic may or may not sound good for your guitar and bad for others, you
have to let your ear decide it.
Two often recommended ways to record acoustic guitars is:
1: place the mic around the 12th fret (or where the neck meets the body). Your
left hand will almost certainly make noise with this method :-) or...
2: Place the mic near the bridge (somwhere between the hole and bridge) and do
some testing from there.
It's one more way: Try to record from your right shoulder (if you mic can
catch the sound) down to the guitar, that may do the trick.
A top quality mic might give good results on your guitar, but you can not be
100% sure. I don't know your mic, but it's also possible that it records your
fingers better than sounds from other frequencies.
The bottom line is that you have to test whats best for you and how it will
sound i a mix. The suggestions above is not uncommon and a quite good start,
but a google will give you loads of info on this subject. Many people do some
heavy EQing too, so it's many possibilities.
Good luck, hope it helps.
Jostein
9:42 p.m.
Oh my..I've always been experimenting on the best ways to GRAB THOSE
SWISHES. And you want to take 'em away? I mean..that's what turns me on and
tell's me that it's actually a real acoustic guitar playing.
9:58 p.m.
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Ray Rashif wrote:
Oh my..I've always been experimenting on the best
ways to GRAB THOSE
SWISHES. And you want to take 'em away? I mean..that's what turns me on and
tell's me that it's actually a real acoustic guitar playing.
A few posters have expressed this sentiment, so I'd might as well add my
voice to the list.
I LOVE all the sounds a guitar makes - the full resonance of the strings
with all their overtones and interactions, beats etc., the sound of
fingers of both hands, picks, fingertips, fingernails, taps, slaps, pps,
fret noise, AND wound-string squeaks.
I've got a set of flat-wounds on my ES175, and though they are
reasonable on that guitar, which I rarely play, there is a lifelessness
to them that actually makes that guitar a different instrument.
Take away the breath on a flute or airy sax and what you've got left is
the sound of a synthesizer, and a poor one at that.
Frank
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25 Feb
25 Feb
1:11 a.m.
Den Wednesday 25 February 2009 02:42:15 skrev Ray Rashif:
Oh my..I've always been experimenting on the best
ways to GRAB THOSE
SWISHES. And you want to take 'em away? I mean..that's what turns me on and
tell's me that it's actually a real acoustic guitar playing.
No, I don't want to remove the small noises, the truth I that I like them
too! But that was not what he was asking for :-)
And if this finger noises are too load, they can be annoying both in a mix and
alone. So to recommend some "standard" common ways to place the mics can't
be
wrong IMHO. :-)
Jostein
5752
days inactive
5755
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
12 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Bob van der Poel -
Cassiel -
frank pirrone -
Gordon JC Pearce -
Joe Hartley -
Jostein Chr. Andersen -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
lanas -
Michal Seta -
Ray Rashif