11 Mar
2017
11 Mar
'17
7:35 p.m.
Hi,
I'm running multiple PC's with UbuntuStudio 16.04.
I'm trying to figure some differences in what happens between the PC's when
jack is started.
Questions:
- what is the process of determining what combination of jackd, jackdbus,
jack1, jack2 is actually being run from the command line or from qjackctl?
- since starting jack from the command line doesn't result with a pulse
source/sink, but starting it from qjackctl does end up with pulse
source/sink and system source/sink? (And, how do I duplicate what happens
when jack is started from qjackctl from the command line?)
Regards,
Mac
11 Mar
11 Mar
8:09 p.m.
On Sat, 11 Mar 2017, Mac wrote:
I'm running multiple PC's with UbuntuStudio
16.04.
I'm trying to figure some differences in what happens between the PC's when jack
is started.
Questions:
- what is the process of determining what combination of jackd, jackdbus, jack1,
jack2 is actually being run from the command line or from qjackctl?
- since starting jack from the command line doesn't result with a pulse
source/sink, but starting it from qjackctl does end up with pulse source/sink and
system source/sink? (And, how do I duplicate what happens when jack is started
from qjackctl from the command line?)
UbuntuStudio comes with jackd2 by default (same as debian) it can be
changed over to jackd1, but just installing jackd1 will remove lots of
audio SW that depends on jackd2. so the uninstall of jack2 has to happen
without touching the deps and the install of jackd1 needs to happen the
same way. I don't know the commands off hand.
The jackd2 package comes with both jackd and jackdbus. By default qjackctl
will work with jackdbus. The dbus interface is required in order for the
pulseaudio module to autoconnect to jack. It is possible to manually
connect pulse to jackd without the dbus part of jack.
The best way to control jackdbus from the commandline is to use
jack_control. jack_control comes with pretty much zero documentation...
just run jack_control with no options for usage output.
jack_control start
will start jack with saved parameters
jack_control ds alsa dps device hw:D66 dps rate 48000 dps period 128 \
dps nperiods 2 start
will start with new parameters. It is easy to split commands across more
than one line if desired. I normally run:
jack_control ds alsa dps capture none dps playback none
first because qjackctl seems to set capture and playback separately even
for the same device and that resets it.
All of these parameters can be changed on the fly without stopping jack.
Just put in the changes you want (devices, rate, latency, etc) and then
enter:
jack_control sm to make the switch. While jack may survive switching rate
while running, most clients probably won't... latency switching even
though it is possible on a running jack1 as well does not work with all
clients either... but most do. Switching devices is fine so long as they
have the same number of ports... well connections to system ports will get
dropped and need reconnecting anyway. (there are utilities that will do
this for you, check if jack-tools is installed)
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
13 Mar
13 Mar
6:25 p.m.
Ok, so since I have done nothing to change anything from a default UBStudio
16.04, then I should be able to assume I'm working with jackd2.
If I understand your reply, dbus provides some magic that allows pulseaudio
(as installed with UBS16.04) to see when a jackd2 server is started and
create the pulseaudio source/sinks.
and the ds... arguments start the alsa source/sinks
Having just tried it, "jack_control start" from the command line starts
jack and pulse does indeed connect auto-magically. (jackd on the command
line does not).
And it starts jack with the last configuration started. (On this PC that's
firewire, not alsa, I assume it would be the same on my alsa/usb PC, i.e.
starting the last configuration used.)
...the fog begins to clear. ;)
Mac
On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 3:09 PM, Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2017, Mac wrote:
I'm running multiple PC's with UbuntuStudio 16.04.
I'm trying to figure some differences in what happens between the PC's
when jack
is started.
Questions:
- what is the process of determining what combination of jackd, jackdbus,
jack1,
jack2 is actually being run from the command line or from qjackctl?
- since starting jack from the command line doesn't result with a pulse
source/sink, but starting it from qjackctl does end up with pulse
source/sink and
system source/sink? (And, how do I duplicate what happens when jack is
started
from qjackctl from the command line?)
UbuntuStudio comes with jackd2 by default (same as debian) it can be
changed over to jackd1, but just installing jackd1 will remove lots of
audio SW that depends on jackd2. so the uninstall of jack2 has to happen
without touching the deps and the install of jackd1 needs to happen the
same way. I don't know the commands off hand.
The jackd2 package comes with both jackd and jackdbus. By default qjackctl
will work with jackdbus. The dbus interface is required in order for the
pulseaudio module to autoconnect to jack. It is possible to manually
connect pulse to jackd without the dbus part of jack.
The best way to control jackdbus from the commandline is to use
jack_control. jack_control comes with pretty much zero documentation...
just run jack_control with no options for usage output.
jack_control start
will start jack with saved parameters
jack_control ds alsa dps device hw:D66 dps rate 48000 dps period 128 \
dps nperiods 2 start
will start with new parameters. It is easy to split commands across more
than one line if desired. I normally run:
jack_control ds alsa dps capture none dps playback none
first because qjackctl seems to set capture and playback separately even
for the same device and that resets it.
All of these parameters can be changed on the fly without stopping jack.
Just put in the changes you want (devices, rate, latency, etc) and then
enter:
jack_control sm to make the switch. While jack may survive switching rate
while running, most clients probably won't... latency switching even though
it is possible on a running jack1 as well does not work with all clients
either... but most do. Switching devices is fine so long as they have the
same number of ports... well connections to system ports will get dropped
and need reconnecting anyway. (there are utilities that will do this for
you, check if jack-tools is installed)
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
6:38 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 14:24:35 -0400
Mac <ussndmac(a)charter.net> wrote:
If I understand your reply, dbus provides some magic
that allows
pulseaudio (as installed with UBS16.04) to see when a jackd2 server
is started and create the pulseaudio source/sinks.
If you want to use the bridge with jackd1 you can use this:
pacmd load-module module-jack-sink channels=2
--
Joakim
6:52 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, Joakim Hernberg wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 14:24:35 -0400
Mac <ussndmac(a)charter.net> wrote:
yes. module-jack-sink and module-jack-source besides chanels= also has
client_name= which will show up both on the jack side as well as the pa
side (i normally insert the card name in here client_name=PA_M66) and
connect=no if you do not want the module to auto connect to system_1 and
system_2. (my s/pdif is system_9/10)
If you are loading these modules from a script then:
jack_connect source destination
can be helpful as well (jack-plumbing may be better in some cases). Using
client_name= means you know what name jack is using for connecting.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
If I understand your reply, dbus provides some
magic that allows
pulseaudio (as installed with UBS16.04) to see when a jackd2 server
is started and create the pulseaudio source/sinks.
If you want to use the bridge with jackd1 you can use this:
pacmd load-module module-jack-sink channels=2
6:42 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, Mac wrote:
Ok, so since I have done nothing to change anything
from a default UBStudio
16.04, then I should be able to assume I'm working with jackd2.
If I understand your reply, dbus provides some magic that allows pulseaudio (as
installed with UBS16.04) to see when a jackd2 server is started and create the
pulseaudio source/sinks.
and the ds... arguments start the alsa source/sinks
Ya, I could have been a little more explanitory there... like I said the
documentation is just not there. Jack_control is written in python so it
is possible to directly read the source, but I found that running
jack_control with no arguements gives usage. from there I noted that dl
will return a list of drivers, dp will get me a list of what the current
driver parameters are and default to. il gies a sililar list for internals
etc. yu will notice a lot of the commands are to "get" information. It
would be handy to take all of this stuff and make a man page I am
guessing.
...the fog begins to clear. ;)
Good :)
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
7:04 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 14:24:35 -0400, Mac wrote:
If I understand your reply, dbus provides some magic
that allows
pulseaudio (as installed with UBS16.04) to see when a jackd2 server is
started
The Ubuntu package name is "jackd2", but actually _not_ _jackd_ does
use _dbus_, it's _jackdbus_.
"Desktop" apps could use dbus, a https://www.freedesktop.org/ thingy. As
everything else related to https://www.freedesktop.org/ dbus could be
useful, but not necessarily is useful for every task. A bowling ball is
useful for bowling, but less good to play volleyball.
The package provides
/usr/bin/jackd
as well as
/usr/bin/jackdbus
http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/amd64/jackd2/filelist
I don't know why the Ubuntu Studio team makes it the default for Ubuntu
Studio. There seems to be no way to successfully argue against it. DAW
users very seldom need jackdbus and other users very seldom need the
jack sound server at all.
That jackdbus is installed seems not to be related to issues. Nothing
ever auto-starts jackdbus on my Linux installs. I'm running Arch Linux
as well as an "expert" Ubuntu install:
[root@archlinux moonstudio]# systemd-nspawn -q
[root@moonstudio ~]# grep PRETTY /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS"
[root@moonstudio ~]# dpkg -l jackd2 | grep ii
ii jackd2 1.9.10+20150825git1ed50c92~dfsg-1ubuntu1 amd64 JACK Audio
Connection Kit (server and example clients)
[root@moonstudio ~]# cat /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.jackaudio.service
[D-BUS Service]
Name=org.jackaudio.service
Exec=/usr/bin/jackdbus auto
[root@moonstudio ~]# logout
[root@archlinux moonstudio]# grep PRETTY /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Arch Linux"
[root@archlinux moonstudio]# pacman -Q jack2
jack2 1.9.10.r241.ge0281d82-1
[root@archlinux moonstudio]# cat /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.jackaudio.service
[D-BUS Service]
Name=org.jackaudio.service
Exec=/usr/bin/jackdbus auto
On both installs jackdbus is inactive.
Regards,
Ralf
7:51 p.m.
To add to the discussion, it's also possible to build a jack1-dbus
version. Nedko wrote some patches years ago, that still work, all that
is missing is the device reservation code. Maybe one could use this:
https://github.com/x42/alsa_request_device
There is a buildscript for Archlinux on the AUR.
--
Joakim
8:20 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:50:58 +0100, Joakim Hernberg wrote:
To add to the discussion, it's also possible to
build a jack1-dbus
version. Nedko wrote some patches years ago, that still work, all that
is missing is the device reservation code. Maybe one could use this:
https://github.com/x42/alsa_request_device
There is a buildscript for Archlinux on the AUR.
The OP's original request:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2017-March/107563.ht…
IMO the implicit master question is, what setup meets the OP's needs.
In most cases it makes no sense to run two sound servers in
combination, that are aimed for opposite purposes. Doing this usually
is self-defeating. Why starting from the premise that the OP's needs
fit to an unlikely corner case?
9:27 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
The OP's original request:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2017-March/107563.ht…
IMO the implicit master question is, what setup meets the OP's needs.
In most cases it makes no sense to run two sound servers in
combination, that are aimed for opposite purposes. Doing this usually
is self-defeating. Why starting from the premise that the OP's needs
fit to an unlikely corner case?
This is a case where the combination of pulse and jackdbus work quite
well. Wanting to have a DAW on the screen and be able to, without exiting
from the DAW, play a u-toob vid... I don't know, for instruction (a
tutorial), illustration, (thats the sound I mean) or whatever, is hardly a
corner case. In general, web browsers don't just emit noises at odd times
and in the case of ubuntustudio, the default is that all desktop noises
are turned off.
Certainly, in a studio where the DAW computer is used for nothing else,
never connected to network anyway and there is another general purpose
computer sitting there anyway, having pulse installed (or a web browser)
is pointless. However, one might argue that in todays world and within
Ubuntustudio's target audience, this DAW only computer would be a corner
case.
If the creators of jackd had finished it to present a default alsa device
as pulse does, handle USB devices that appear and vanish without notice,
switching from one to the other as needed... maybe there wuld be no pulse.
But jack does not cover all needs and so a frontend such as pulseaudio can
be a real plus. There are a number of workflows where a pulse/jack
combination is the only way to make it work. (radio studio that uses skype
for callin or interviews comes to mind) I hear rumours that pulse handles
Blue Tooth Audio and ALSA doesn't. (if true, what does that say about the
future of ALSA?)
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
11:28 p.m.
Am 13.03.2017 um 20:04 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
DAW users very seldom need jackdbus and other users
very seldom need the
jack sound server at all.
That's just your opinion, though. I find jackdbus very useful. I often
switch audio interfaces and JACK's dbus interface makes this a lot easier.
I wrote a little desktop systray app to switch JACK configrations via
dbus (I already announced this here a while ago):
https://github.com/SpotlightKid/jack-select
For auto-connecting JACK audio and MIDI ports, I wrote a little helper too:
https://github.com/SpotlightKid/jack-matchmaker
Chris
14 Mar
14 Mar
5:28 a.m.
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:28:20 +0100, Christopher Arndt wrote:
Am 13.03.2017 um 20:04 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
That's ridiculous, jackdbus might have advantages for some usage, but
your examples don't cover them.
DAW users very seldom need jackdbus and other
users very seldom need
the jack sound server at all.
That's just your opinion, though. I find jackdbus very useful. I often
switch audio interfaces and JACK's dbus interface makes this a lot
easier. I wrote a little desktop systray app to switch JACK
configrations via
dbus (I already announced this here a while ago):
https://github.com/SpotlightKid/jack-select
Selecting a sound card could be done with qjackctl, ardour, by command
line and a lot of other ways, too, when using jackd.
For auto-connecting JACK audio and MIDI ports, I wrote
a little helper
too:
https://github.com/SpotlightKid/jack-matchmaker
Connections for jackd audio and midi as well as alsa midi could be
stored and restored by e.g. aj-snapshot, too.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 14:27:09 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
This is a case where the combination of pulse and
jackdbus work quite
well. Wanting to have a DAW on the screen and be able to, without
exiting from the DAW, play a u-toob vid...
You don't need pulseaudio to do this, but even if it would require
pulseaudio, it's a corner case.
There are a number of workflows where a pulse/jack
combination is the
only way to make it work. (radio studio that uses skype for callin or
interviews comes to mind)
Apart from skype interviews, what are those numerous workflows? How
often do you hear skype interviews on radio? This is a corner case.
Regards,
Ralf
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11 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Christopher Arndt -
Joakim Hernberg -
Len Ovens -
Mac -
Ralf Mardorf