31 Oct
2014
31 Oct
'14
6:10 a.m.
saw this design and first thing I thought of was using it to make music.
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/sliders-knobs-dials-give-tablet-physical-inter…
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
31 Oct
31 Oct
9:07 a.m.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 19:09:52 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
saw this design and first thing I thought of was using
it to make
music.
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/sliders-knobs-dials-give-tablet-physical-inter…
Hi David,
when I saw the picture my first thought was, what I read a few seconds
later, "... For a recent school project, Born created ...". IMO you
already can see a weak point:
http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/15569276661_cc53db71e7_k.jpg
I don't think that for audio engineering this idea will provide an
improvement to using the fingers for an iPad remote control instead.
Tablet PC touch screen remote controls have drawbacks, but without such
sliders, buttons and knobs, they can be used as a very variable remote
control, providing lots of good visual advantages. The visual variable
advantages get lost by this aluminium thingy instead of the fingers. It
looks like something unflexible, compressed that unlikely will provide
a good touch. It might be a helpful halfway house for blind people
using a tablet PC with touch screen, but blind people perhaps should
use other devices, than a tablet PC with this thingy.
My impression could be wrong, it's worse to test it, if you can test it
for free, but I wouldn't pay for it or waste time for DIY.
2 Cents,
Ralf
9:39 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)rocketmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 19:09:52 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> saw this design and first thing I thought of was using it to make
> music.
>
> http://www.wired.com/2014/10/sliders-knobs-dials-give-tablet-physical-inter…
[...]
I don't quite get it either. What does it really add, apart from input
latency and cost? :-)
A proper, stand-alone, modular MIDI controller system, preferably with
motorized faders, might be nice, though... You could probably buy a
bunch of different normal MIDI controllers (faders, knobs, pads, ...)
for less than a few of those modules, but there might be a tiny niche
market where cost is irrelevant. ;-)
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
10:24 a.m.
hopefully, the article mentions this more a kind of "proof of concept" than a
real product.
If we start to build real knobs on top of tactile interfaces instead of building hardware
interfaces, then we completely loose our minds
Raphaël
http://www.jerashmusic.fr
Le 31 oct. 2014 à 09:39, David Olofson <david(a)olofson.net> a écrit :
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)rocketmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 19:09:52 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> saw this design and first thing I thought of was using it to make
> music.
>
> http://www.wired.com/2014/10/sliders-knobs-dials-give-tablet-physical-inter…
[...]
I don't quite get it either. What does it really add, apart from input
latency and cost? :-)
A proper, stand-alone, modular MIDI controller system, preferably with
motorized faders, might be nice, though... You could probably buy a
bunch of different normal MIDI controllers (faders, knobs, pads, ...)
for less than a few of those modules, but there might be a tiny niche
market where cost is irrelevant. ;-)
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
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10:54 a.m.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 10:24:46 +0100
Raphaël Mouneyres <rmouneyres(a)gmail.com> wrote:
hopefully, the article mentions this more a kind of
"proof of
concept" than a real product. If we start to build real knobs on top
of tactile interfaces instead of building hardware interfaces, then
we completely loose our minds
I agree with your comment.
For a school this work does show very good that the designer is able to
understand some things, that are important for good design, assumed the
subject of the homework was to build something modular and clear or to
think about ergonomics, e.g. long thin pins make it easier to use the
wheels in the smallest spaces. So, for such a homework it's a good
work, but assumed this should really be an idea for better audio
engineering with tablet PCs, than IMO it's an odd idea. It even can't
be seriously used as a kind of developing kit for the design of
small stand-alone devices, quasi as a breadboard for the control
element design.
1:37 p.m.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:24 AM, Raphaël Mouneyres <rmouneyres(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
hopefully, the article mentions this more a kind of
"proof of concept"
than a real product.
If we start to build real knobs on top of tactile interfaces instead of
building hardware interfaces, then we completely loose our minds
10 years ago you could get knobs that would "stick" onto a laptop/monitor
screen and sent control data. Nothing new under the sun. That was actually
a real product. I'm 99.9% certain that the company who did it is out of
business.
4:53 p.m.
2014-10-31 13:37 GMT+01:00 Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com>om>:
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:24 AM, Raphaël Mouneyres <rmouneyres(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
FWIW, maybe this is better because you can make a touchable interface off
physical things:
http://dentakulondon.com/ototo/
--
C. sanchiavedraZ:
* NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com
* Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es
hopefully, the article mentions this more a kind
of "proof of concept"
than a real product.
If we start to build real knobs on top of tactile interfaces instead of
building hardware interfaces, then we completely loose our minds
10 years ago you could get knobs that would "stick" onto a laptop/monitor
screen and sent control data. Nothing new under the sun. That was actually
a real product. I'm 99.9% certain that the company who did it is out of
business.
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3 Nov
3 Nov
4:24 a.m.
On October 31, 2014 04:52:43 PM Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote:
FWIW, maybe this is better because you can make a
touchable interface off
physical things:
Man, that's hilarious.
I wanna play the vegetables!
2 Nov
2 Nov
8:56 a.m.
On 10/31/2014 02:37 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:24 AM, Raphaël Mouneyres <rmouneyres(a)gmail.com
<mailto:rmouneyres@gmail.com>> wrote:
hopefully, the article mentions this more a kind of "proof of
concept" than a real product.
If we start to build real knobs on top of tactile interfaces instead
of building hardware interfaces, then we completely loose our minds
10 years ago you could get knobs that would "stick" onto a
laptop/monitor screen and sent control data. Nothing new under the sun.
That was actually a real product. I'm 99.9% certain that the company who
did it is out of business.
Knobs and sliders that you could stick onto a tablet surface would make
it very easy to arrange your layout the way you wanted, instead of how
the product engineer decided he or she wanted it.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
11:46 a.m.
Knobs and sliders that you could stick onto a tablet
surface would make it very easy to arrange your layout the way you wanted, instead of how
the product engineer decided he or she wanted it.
That's one of the reason why I had created the Mawzer hardware controller (and other
company tried other products too), but after the experience there was two conclusions :
- on the global market of controllers, les than 10% of the users are really interested in
building their own layout. They are mostly power users using softwares with a similar
approach (Max, Pd, Reaktor...)
- The most typical question we received on the forum was : What kind of knobs arrangement
do you think is the best for xxx software ? ...
Be sure, I do believe that having a controller you can build like you want is a must,
whether it is hardware or tactile+physical.
Some users are willing to pay for it, and be happy using it. But, you just can't make
a revolution out of it.
Raphaël
12:42 p.m.
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 21:56:58 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Knobs and sliders that you could stick onto a tablet
surface would
make it very easy to arrange your layout the way you wanted, instead
of how the product engineer decided he or she wanted it.
So I take my folding rule and my iPad 2 to provide some data.
The touch screen is < 20 cm * < 15 cm small. Very unlikely that you
will be able to make your wanted layout, more likely you'll try to get
something that fits to that small size. There might be larger tablet
PCs available, but the issue anyway is the same.
3 Nov
3 Nov
12:59 a.m.
On 11/02/2014 01:41 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 21:56:58 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Wacom has a 12" tablet that works with fingers or stylus, available
running either Android or Windows 8.
I like feeling a real knob or slider, not the flat slick surface of a
picture of a knob or slider.
A number of all-in-one PCs now have large touch screens. Unfortunately,
they seem to run only Windows.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
Knobs and sliders that you could stick onto a
tablet surface would
make it very easy to arrange your layout the way you wanted, instead
of how the product engineer decided he or she wanted it.
So I take my folding rule and my iPad 2 to provide some data.
The touch screen is < 20 cm * < 15 cm small. Very unlikely that you
will be able to make your wanted layout, more likely you'll try to get
something that fits to that small size. There might be larger tablet
PCs available, but the issue anyway is the same. 
1:35 a.m.
On 03/11/14 10:59, david wrote:
I like feeling a real knob or slider, not the flat slick surface of a
picture of a knob or slider.
A number of all-in-one PCs now have large touch screens.
Unfortunately, they seem to run only Windows.
I like the touch n' turn knob on the Digico consoles we use. Touch any
control on the screen and it is assigned to one knob. Could work well
for tablets etc.
1:46 a.m.
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014, david wrote:
On 11/02/2014 01:41 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
I think there is no one here who wants "touch" for controlling audio. We
all want something we can feel that we don't have to watch. Watching while
moving takes more concerntration leaving less for listening, but listening
is more important. Worse (I don't know about others) the concentration
used with a touch pad to make sure my finger is in the right place is
fully on the upper level of my consiousness as opposed to a knob or fader
that becomes an extension of low level muscle control for the most part.
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 21:56:58 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Wacom has a 12" tablet that works with fingers or stylus, available running
either Android or Windows 8.
I like feeling a real knob or slider, not the flat slick surface of a picture
of a knob or slider. Knobs and sliders that you could stick onto a
tablet surface would
make it very easy to arrange your layout the way you wanted, instead
of how the product engineer decided he or she wanted it.
So I take my folding rule and my iPad 2 to provide some data.
The touch screen is < 20 cm * < 15 cm small. Very unlikely that you
will be able to make your wanted layout, more likely you'll try to get
something that fits to that small size. There might be larger tablet
PCs available, but the issue anyway is the same. A number of all-in-one PCs now have large touch
screens. Unfortunately, they
seem to run only Windows.
Any of those I have seen cost enough (1200 CAD or more) I could get two
MIDI controllers and have cash left over. Even many of the customizable
controllers are less by a large margin. A stand-alone large touchscreen
may be cheaper.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
2:21 a.m.
On 03/11/14 11:45, Len Ovens wrote:
it is the combination of real knobs and faders with the visual feed back of a
touch screen for selecting and viewing things that works well ... it has been
the basis of some very high end studio mixing systems for a while now. A biggish
button displayed on a touchsceen requires less fiddling/distraction than using a
mouse and cursor if you are mostly using your hands for the keyboard and real
controls ... plus there are some types of control that can be done with
multi-touch or pen quite nicely ... (certainly not knobs, faders and buttons)
Simon
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014, david wrote:
I like feeling
a real knob or slider, not the flat slick surface of a picture
of a knob or slider.
I think there is no one here who wants "touch" for controlling audio. We all
want something we can feel that we don't have to watch. Watching while moving
takes more concerntration leaving less for listening, but listening is more
important. Worse (I don't know about others) the concentration used with a touch
pad to make sure my finger is in the right place is fully on the upper level of
my consiousness as opposed to a knob or fader that becomes an extension of low
level muscle control for the most part. 
2:43 a.m.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Simon Wise <simonzwise(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 03/11/14 11:45, Len Ovens wrote:
it is the combination of real knobs and faders with the visual feed back
of a touch screen for selecting and viewing things that works well ... it
has been the basis of some very high end studio mixing systems for a while
now. A biggish button displayed on a touchsceen requires less
fiddling/distraction than using a mouse and cursor if you are mostly using
your hands for the keyboard and real controls ... plus there are some types
of control that can be done with multi-touch or pen quite nicely ...
(certainly not knobs, faders and buttons)
Simon
Clearly the octopus is way ahead of us here but a touch screen that
dynamically
changes its texture as well as its colour is totally possible,
just needs someone to figure out how to do it.
Martin
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014, david wrote:
I like feeling a real knob or slider, not the flat slick surface of a
picture
of a knob or slider.
I think there is no one here who wants "touch" for controlling audio. We
all
want something we can feel that we don't have to watch. Watching while
moving
takes more concerntration leaving less for listening, but listening is
more
important. Worse (I don't know about others) the concentration used with
a touch
pad to make sure my finger is in the right place is fully on the upper
level of
my consiousness as opposed to a knob or fader that becomes an extension
of low
level muscle control for the most part.
3:23 a.m.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Martin Peach <chakekatzil(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Clearly the octopus is way ahead of us here but a
touch screen that
dynamically changes its texture as well as its colour is totally possible,
just needs someone to figure out how to do it.
There was some kind of prototype tech doing the rounds a year or two
ago that used a transparent membrane overlay that inflated and
deflated to achieve something along these lines. From memory it was
close to product stage, but can't seem to find mention of it now
though.
3:26 a.m.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:22 AM, michael noble <looplog(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From memory it was
close to product stage, but can't seem to find mention of it now
though.
This is the one I was thinking of:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3064674/tactus-technology-prototype-touchs…
5:07 a.m.
On 03/11/14 12:43, Martin Peach wrote:
there are kinds of touch-displays for blind users I believe, not only a row or
two of braille ... with a big enough budget much is possible.
but other than vibration or little lumps there are other ways:
e.g. moving the whole surface ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veP1BcdYrEY
or another, changing friction not shape apparently ...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/01/sensegs-tactile-display-gets-demoed-on-a…
Simon
Clearly the
octopus is way ahead of us here but a touch screen that
dynamically changes its
texture as well as its colour is totally possible,
just needs someone to figure out how to do it.
4:27 a.m.
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014, Simon Wise wrote:
it is the combination of real knobs and faders with
the visual feed back of a
touch screen for selecting and viewing things that works well ... it has been
the basis of some very high end studio mixing systems for a while now. A
Even lower end digital mixers use this mix of interface, Yes it can be
very flexable. Adjusting EQ "Q" with two fingers, while at the same time
setting centre frequescy and level is nice.
biggish button displayed on a touchsceen requires less
fiddling/distraction
than using a mouse and cursor if you are mostly using your hands for the
keyboard and real controls ... plus there are some types of control that can
be done with multi-touch or pen quite nicely ... (certainly not knobs, faders
and buttons)
Using touch screen over mouse for those things that are on screen I like.
Using a touch ecreen to replace tactile level controls I am less sure
of... Though to be honest some of the very early versions I used to
control overall velocity on the Atari might have worked well with
touchscreens. They were not visual sliders or knobs, but a button/label
where clicking and holding while moving up or down adjusted level. While
moving up or down the mouse pointer may have been over some other control,
but so long as the mouse button was held down it did not matter. The only
visual feed back was the numeric value of the velocity offset changing.
Horizontal movement of the mouse was ignored. The only downside for this
becomes realestate. A control too close to the edge of the screen ends up
with a limited range of control... That is a control near the top is
limited to moving the level higher and a control near the bottom is
limited to how much lower it can go. Designing the display to use the
screen edges for display only use and putting controls towards screen
centre could help or defining up as up/right and down as down/left might
help too. Any of the ideas used on the Atari would work just as easy on
any GUI. In fact the same techniques are used in some software, what
brought it to mind was the control density was very high (to compensate
for the lower resolution of screens at the time). The quality of "rodents"
seems to have dropped since too... holding and dragging worked better
without mouse button skipps almost every mouse seems to develop very
quickly.
The idea of using the touch screen to select the control and then using a
knob/shuttle/joystick/trackball/mouse to change the value also makes a lot
of sense. Most of the digital mixers I have seen use both a large number
of real knobs/faders with selection to extend them.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
5:35 a.m.
On 03/11/14 14:26, Len Ovens wrote:
e.g. puredata, though that GUI is a bit old and tired ... there is work bringing
it a more modern framework.
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014, Simon Wise wrote:
any movement of multiple points in a 2 dimensional parameter space is hard to do
well any other way, likewise drawing curves can be useful ... and the range of 2
or 3 finger gestures that are becoming familiar (and hence thought of as
intuitive) are potentially very useful.
Audio has plenty of examples where placement, translation, rotation, scaling etc
in 2 parameter dimensions makes sense.
it is the combination of real knobs and faders
with the visual feed back of a
touch screen for selecting and viewing things that works well ... it has been
the basis of some very high end studio mixing systems for a while now. A
Even lower end digital mixers use this mix of interface, Yes it can be very
flexable. Adjusting EQ "Q" with two fingers, while at the same time setting
centre frequescy and level is nice. biggish button displayed on a touchsceen requires
less fiddling/distraction
than using a mouse and cursor if you are mostly using your hands for the
keyboard and real controls ... plus there are some types of control that can
be done with multi-touch or pen quite nicely ... (certainly not knobs, faders
and buttons)
Using touch screen over mouse for those things that are on screen I like. Using
a touch ecreen to replace tactile level controls I am less sure of... Though to
be honest some of the very early versions I used to control overall velocity on
the Atari might have worked well with touchscreens. They were not visual sliders
or knobs, but a button/label where clicking and holding while moving up or down
adjusted level. While moving up or down the mouse pointer may have been over
some other control, but so long as the mouse button was held down it did not
matter. The only visual feed back was the numeric value of the velocity offset
changing. Horizontal movement of the mouse was ignored. The only downside for
this becomes realestate. A control too close to the edge of the screen ends up
with a limited range of control... That is a control near the top is limited to
moving the level higher and a control near the bottom is limited to how much
lower it can go. Designing the display to use the screen edges for display only
use and putting controls towards screen centre could help or defining up as
up/right and down as down/left might help too. Any of the ideas used on the
Atari would work just as easy on any GUI. In fact the same techniques are used
in some software, The idea of using the touch screen to select the
control and then using a
knob/shuttle/joystick/trackball/mouse to change the value also makes a lot of
sense. Most of the digital mixers I have seen use both a large number of real
knobs/faders with selection to extend them.
I used a couple of 6DOF "spaceballs" as a control in that way, old ones that had
been built very solidly (and cost very serious cash when they were new, but ebay
is great for that kind of stuff). In this case for projections rather than
audio, but they make sense anywhere that rate-of-change in a 3 dimensional
parameter space is being controlled (especially where orientation is also
significant, or where more parameters fit into this particular arrangement of 6
dimensions.
Simon
9:51 a.m.
On 11/02/2014 03:21 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 03/11/14 11:45, Len Ovens wrote:
it is the combination of real knobs and faders with the visual feed back
of a touch screen for selecting and viewing things that works well ...
it has been the basis of some very high end studio mixing systems for a
while now. A biggish button displayed on a touchsceen requires less
fiddling/distraction than using a mouse and cursor if you are mostly
using your hands for the keyboard and real controls ... plus there are
some types of control that can be done with multi-touch or pen quite
nicely ... (certainly not knobs, faders and buttons)
Hmm, make the sliders/knobs sitting on the tablet/touchscreen
transparent so the visuals beneath show through?
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014, david wrote:
I like
feeling a real knob or slider, not the flat slick surface of a
picture
of a knob or slider.
I think there is no one here who wants "touch" for controlling audio.
We all
want something we can feel that we don't have to watch. Watching while
moving
takes more concerntration leaving less for listening, but listening is
more
important. Worse (I don't know about others) the concentration used
with a touch
pad to make sure my finger is in the right place is fully on the upper
level of
my consiousness as opposed to a knob or fader that becomes an
extension of low
level muscle control for the most part. 
4:34 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:50 AM, david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
nicely ... (certainly not knobs, faders and buttons)
Hmm, make the sliders/knobs sitting on the tablet/touchscreen transparent
so the visuals beneath show through?
Here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/samuelverburg/tuna-knobs-stick-em-to-y…
Why not? :) Fun has strange ways sometimes.... Personaly, the first thing i
think of is a swedish saying: "it's a cake on a cake" :)
Set Hallström
AKA
reSet Sakrecoer
http://sakrecoer.com
4:55 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)rocketmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:34:43 +0100
Set Hallström <sakrecoer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
haha! I'm not sure i see what interpretations you are refering to, but i
guess thats the first symptom for unintentional misscommunications? :D
Let me reformulate it: its something that looks delicious on top of
something that looks delicious. Will it be even better combined? ...
probably a matter of taste :) Sure thing is: i hope those who aquire such
controllers have fun, get busy and express themselves with them! <3
--
Set Hallström
AKA
reSet Sakrecoer
http://sakrecoer.com
"it's a cake on a cake"
*chuckle* Regarding to the topic and context, you allow space for 49%
of wrong interpretation of your Swedish saying ;).
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5:06 p.m.
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:55:42 +0100
Set Hallström <sakrecoer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)rocketmail.com> wrote:
Cool! I misunderstood it! I thought that you are "quasi against" it as
I'm "quasi against" it. But seemingly you are less or not ambivalent and
are able to see it as the tower on a tower :). Wonderful! I don't see it
that positive for the touch screen knob idea, but I like the tower on
the tower :).
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:34:43 +0100
Set Hallström <sakrecoer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
haha! I'm not sure i see what interpretations you are refering to,
but i guess thats the first symptom for unintentional
misscommunications? :D Let me reformulate it: its something that
looks delicious on top of something that looks delicious. Will it be
even better combined? ... probably a matter of taste :) Sure thing
is: i hope those who aquire such controllers have fun, get busy and
express themselves with them! <3 "it's a cake on a cake"
*chuckle* Regarding to the topic and context, you allow space for
49% of wrong interpretation of your Swedish saying ;).
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5:01 p.m.
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:34:43 +0100
Set Hallström <sakrecoer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
"it's a cake on a cake" :)
You know, there was a king who build a castle tower on a castle
tower ;). It's not an invention of Disney's graphic artist, in Germany
we once had a freakish king and Disney stole the idea from him. IOW the
cake on the cake could be something nice, beautiful freakish, it's not
100% absurd.
2:33 a.m.
On 03/11/14 11:45, Len Ovens wrote:
I think there is no one here who wants
"touch" for controlling audio.
We all want something we can feel that we don't have to watch.
I used to think
exactly the same, but think it can be learned. My
opinion changed after seeing Omar Rodriguez Lopez Band mixed by ZZ Top's
sound engineer using Line6 Stagescape located on stage and an ipad on
wifi. One of the best sounds I have ever heard at our venue. And
complete band setup and soundcheck took less than an hour.
Roger
5:36 a.m.
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014, Roger wrote:
On 03/11/14 11:45, Len Ovens wrote:
So feel is nice, but good ears and mobility are more important (assuming
reasonable knowledge to begin with) in this case it would seem. That is a
neat setup. The ipad use for remote is common, but the simple wifi dongle
is not so much, most require a wireless router. It has a pretty nice price
point as well so long as one can work with no faders.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
I think there is no one here who wants
"touch" for controlling audio. We
all want something we can feel that we don't have to watch.
I used to think
exactly the same, but think it can be learned. My opinion
changed after seeing Omar Rodriguez Lopez Band mixed by ZZ Top's sound
engineer using Line6 Stagescape located on stage and an ipad on wifi. One of
the best sounds I have ever heard at our venue. And complete band setup and
soundcheck took less than an hour.
2:09 a.m.
On 03/11/14 10:59, david wrote:
Wacom has a 12" tablet that works with fingers or stylus, available running
either Android or Windows 8.
on my android, with a wacom screen, the touch is (at least) 10 distinct fingers,
plus the stylus is independent of that and a mouse is too .. the stylus is
compatible with my older fujitsu pen, a full sized one with pressure both ends
and two buttons. So there are lots of interface options ... with the samsung
drivers this is all very smooth ... there are 4 small and 4 big cores so I think
at least one of the small cores runs the input ... it does not lag like some
earlier models did. A debian chroot runs on it, and there is a reasonable
partial implementation of X that runs a display natively, using these inputs, on
it (both work without breaking the samsung lock-down) ... so the tablet world is
getting more flexible and usable for linux users prepared to put a bit of time
into it.
I like feeling a real knob or slider, not the flat slick surface of a picture of
a knob or slider.
yes .... my BFC2000 still serves that purpose well, 12 years old now.
Simon
31 Oct
31 Oct
2:50 p.m.
New subject: [OT]: Re: turn your tablet into a real physical interface
On 31/10/2014 06:09, david wrote:
saw this design and first thing I thought of was using
it to make music.
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/sliders-knobs-dials-give-tablet-physical-inter…
I think the pros and conts of user interaction with touch screens have
been extensively studied and are widely available online (just google
for it).
Regarding controllers the only advantage of using e.g. tablets for
music-related stuff is the fact they are wireless (and in some case they
may serve as performative elements because they are perceived as 'cool'
by the audience..)
I found a post by Bret Victor [1] particularly interesting and
thought-provoking (linked by alex from the eightycolumn mailing list [2]).
Lorenzo.
[1] http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/
[2] https://multiplace.sk/pipermail/eightycolumn/2014-April/000880.html
4:59 p.m.
New subject: [OT]: Re: turn your tablet into a real physical interface
2014-10-31 14:50 GMT+01:00 Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>om>:
On 31/10/2014 06:09, david wrote:
Regarding wireless controllerism, there are aproaches in that regard:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/quneo-rogue-wireless-midi-controller-acc…
--
C. sanchiavedraZ:
* NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com
* Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es
saw this design and first thing I thought of was
using it to make music.
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/sliders-knobs-dials-give-
tablet-physical-interface/
I think the pros and conts of user interaction with touch screens have
been
extensively studied and are widely available online (just google for
it).
Regarding controllers the only advantage of using e.g. tablets for
music-related stuff is the fact they are wireless (and in some case they
may serve as performative elements because they are perceived as 'cool' by
the audience..)
I found a post by Bret Victor [1] particularly interesting and
thought-provoking (linked by alex from the eightycolumn mailing list [2]).
Lorenzo.
[1] http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/
[2] https://multiplace.sk/pipermail/eightycolumn/2014-April/000880.html
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8:55 p.m.
New subject: [OT]: Re: turn your tablet into a real physical interface
IMO using a tablet PC for faders and knobs is just interesting, if you
own one for other reasons, that most likely aren't related to music.
Assumed you don't have the money, even to get an elCheapo Korg
nanoKontrol or similar, but you want to e.g. control filters of a
virtual synth, then it's nice, when you can control filters by your
fingers instead of using the mouse, assumed the software is for free or
does cost 4 EUR. When using it for mixing, then it's nice, because it's
wireless, but not for replacing a good mixer, just as a cheap remote
control for your DAW and putting such real pseudo faders and knobs on
top of the touch screen wouldn't enhance it, it would limit the tablet
PCs abilities. This thing is a good homework for the design class, to
demonstrate the design abilities of a student, but not good as a real
product for mixing with tablet PCs. It's an abstract work, that does
demonstrate creativity and some know how, that can be used for other
things, that could be really interesting products. A student usually
doesn't have the money to realise really usable things, just for a
homework. A homework isn't a complementary work/final paper. As already
mentioned, before reading it, my first thought, when I saw the pics, was
"school".
5 Nov
5 Nov
12:17 p.m.
New subject: [OT]: Re: turn your tablet into a real physical interface
On 2014-10-31 16:59, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote:
Regarding wireless controllerism, there are aproaches in that regard:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/quneo-rogue-wireless-midi-controller-acc…
Pretty neet!
I want a tiny little midi-plug with a wireless chip in it, combined with
an audio-jack sending audio thru that wifi module to
wireless-populationcontrol my robots. I think i would feel awesomely
cool running around a stage with my midified tb-303 without cables.
I've actualy seen it for just the midi, but i can't find the link to it
anymore. But it wouldn't solve my cooldom issues (aka techno
macaharoni-back:) ) unless it also includes audio.
--
Set Hallstrom
AKA Sakrecoer
http://sakrecoer.com
31 Oct
31 Oct
9:48 p.m.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014, david wrote:
saw this design and first thing I thought of was using
it to make music.
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/sliders-knobs-dials-give-tablet-physical-inter…
The designer thought it would be good for music too. One has to look at
gains VS losses. All that is gained is tactile touch. What is lost is
visual feedback, that is with so little realestate one would want to be
able to switch banks and the faders would not work with that. The knobs
could, but the visual refference of seeing where the new bank settings
were would be lost. Changing configuration takes way too much time for
stage use and even in the studio it would be frustrating. For mere tactile
feel... that is knowing that your finger is in a certain place, a clear
template with slots would work better, though I do not know if it would be
better enough than a blank touch screen to make it worth while. Certainly
it would be cheaper though. It also makes the device a one application
device. For example running both a recorder and a remote mixer could not
be done. A "clip-board" with a smart phone and a small midi controller
might work better.
There are some things where visual feedback would be very nice. A touchpad
can be a wonderful tool for some of these things. Limiting it by covering
it's screen just doesn't make sense unless you have more than one
screen... and then a dedicated midi controller wins anyway.
My 2 cents...
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
10:02 p.m.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
There are some things where visual feedback would be
very nice. A
touchpad can be a wonderful tool for some of these things. Limiting
it by covering it's screen just doesn't make sense unless you have
more than one screen... and then a dedicated midi controller wins
anyway.
My 2 cents...
Seemingly not only your 2 Cents ;).
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days inactive
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35 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Carlos sanchiavedraz -
david -
David Olofson -
Len Ovens -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Martin Peach -
michael noble -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf -
Raphaël Mouneyres -
Roger -
Set Hallström -
Simon Wise -
Tim E. Real