Hi Robin, On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:47:18 +0100, Robin Gareus wrote: this is a good reason to use ALSA without JACK. The script [1] run before and after trying to start Ardour with ALSA [2]. Ardour failed to start. The script [3] launched after Ardour started successfully with JACK 2 [4]. FWIW at first I didn't use a distro's package, but when I downgraded to the distro's version ardour-4.6-1, it also failed to open with ALSA. Default kernel, booted without 'thredirqs': [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ uname -rm 4.4.1-2-ARCH x86_64 It's not a distro's package, but based on a distro's package (optional dependencies are installed), the PKGBUILD includes 'waf configure': [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /var/cache/aur/current/ardour-4.7-1-PKGBUILD [snip] pkgname=ardour pkgver=4.7 pkgrel=1 [snip] depends=('liblrdf' 'liblo' 'lilv' 'suil' 'taglib' 'aubio' 'rubberband' 'gtkmm') makedepends=('git' 'python2' 'boost' 'cppunit' 'doxygen' 'graphviz') optdepends=('xjadeo: video monitoring' 'harvid: video timeline') source=("$pkgname-$pkgver::git+https://github.com/${pkgname^}/$pkgname… "$pkgname.desktop") [snip] prepare() { cd "$srcdir/$pkgname-$pkgver" # python2 fix sed -i 's/python ${SRC}/python2 ${SRC}/' libs/pbd/wscript } build() { cd "$srcdir/$pkgname-$pkgver" python2 waf configure --prefix=/usr \ --configdir=/etc \ --with-backends="jack,alsa" \ --libjack=weak \ --optimize \ --docs \ --cxx11 \ --no-phone-home python2 waf build $MAKEFLAGS } package() { cd "$srcdir/$pkgname-$pkgver" python2 waf install --destdir="$pkgdir" [snip] Regards, Ralf [1] ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ wget http://jackaudio.org/downloads/adevices.sh && date;bash ./adevices.sh [snip] Fri Feb 19 21:35:30 CET 2016 ======================================== Part I: ALSA Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version k4.4.1-2-ARCH. Card 0 (HDSPMx579bcc): * Playback Device 0 (RME AIO): - Subdevice 0 (hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0,0): closed * Recording Device 0 (RME AIO): - Subdevice 0 (hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0,0): closed ======================================== Part II: jack processes [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ wget http://jackaudio.org/downloads/adevices.sh && date;bash ./adevices.sh [snip] Fri Feb 19 21:37:52 CET 2016 ======================================== Part I: ALSA Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version k4.4.1-2-ARCH. Card 0 (HDSPMx579bcc): * Playback Device 0 (RME AIO): - Subdevice 0 (hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0,0): closed * Recording Device 0 (RME AIO): - Subdevice 0 (hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0,0): closed ======================================== Part II: jack processes [2] ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ date;ardour4 Fri Feb 19 21:36:14 CET 2016 bind txt domain [gtk2_ardour4] to /usr/share/ardour4/locale Ardour4.7.0 (built using 4.7 and GCC version 5.3.0) ardour: [INFO]: Your system is configured to limit Ardour to only 4096 open files ardour: [INFO]: Loading system configuration file /etc/ardour4/system_config Loading user configuration file /home/rocketmouse/.config/ardour4/config CPU vendor: AuthenticAMD ardour: [INFO]: CPU brand: AMD Athlon(tm) X2 Dual Core Processor BE-2350 ardour: [INFO]: Using SSE optimized routines ardour: [INFO]: Loading default ui configuration file /etc/ardour4/default_ui_config ardour: [INFO]: Loading user ui configuration file /home/rocketmouse/.config/ardour4/ui_config ardour: [INFO]: Loading color file /etc/ardour4/dark.colors ardour: [INFO]: Loading ui configuration file /etc/ardour4/clearlooks.rc ardour: [INFO]: Loading ui configuration file /etc/ardour4/clearlooks.rc EngineControl::set_state Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Found nothing along /home/rocketmouse/.config/ardour4/templates:/usr/share/ardour4/templates run dialog Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started caught signal - shutting down. Process is still running! trying SIGKILL caught signal - shutting down. Process is still running! trying SIGKILL caught signal - shutting down. Process is still running! trying SIGKILL Butler drops pool trash Errors/Messages: ERROR: AlsaAudioBackend: failed to allocate parameters. ERROR: AlsaAudioBackend: failed to allocate parameters. ERROR: AlsaAudioBackend: failed to allocate parameters. INFO: Loading 88 MIDI patches from /usr/share/ardour4/patchfiles run dialog Cannot get session parameters. [3] ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ date;bash ./adevices.sh Fri Feb 19 21:45:45 CET 2016 ======================================== Part I: ALSA Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version k4.4.1-2-ARCH. Card 0 (HDSPMx579bcc): * Playback Device 0 (RME AIO): - Subdevice 0 (hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0,0): used by: jackd (PID 7171) access: MMAP_NONINTERLEAVED format: S32_LE subformat: STD channels: 16 rate: 44100 (44100/1) period_size: 1024 buffer_size: 16384 * Recording Device 0 (RME AIO): - Subdevice 0 (hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0,0): used by: jackd (PID 7171) access: MMAP_NONINTERLEAVED format: S32_LE subformat: STD channels: 14 rate: 44100 (44100/1) period_size: 1024 buffer_size: 16384 ======================================== Part II: jack processes 7171 ? SLsl 0:00 /usr/bin/jackd -T -ndefault -t 200 -p 2048 -R -T -d alsa -n 2 -r 44100 -p 1024 -d hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0 -X raw [4] ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### **** ### **** #### [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ date;ardour4 Fri Feb 19 21:45:08 CET 2016 bind txt domain [gtk2_ardour4] to /usr/share/ardour4/locale Ardour4.7.0 (built using 4.7 and GCC version 5.3.0) ardour: [INFO]: Your system is configured to limit Ardour to only 4096 open files ardour: [INFO]: Loading system configuration file /etc/ardour4/system_config Loading user configuration file /home/rocketmouse/.config/ardour4/config CPU vendor: AuthenticAMD ardour: [INFO]: CPU brand: AMD Athlon(tm) X2 Dual Core Processor BE-2350 ardour: [INFO]: Using SSE optimized routines ardour: [INFO]: Loading default ui configuration file /etc/ardour4/default_ui_config ardour: [INFO]: Loading user ui configuration file /home/rocketmouse/.config/ardour4/ui_config ardour: [INFO]: Loading color file /etc/ardour4/dark.colors ardour: [INFO]: Loading ui configuration file /etc/ardour4/clearlooks.rc ardour: [INFO]: Loading ui configuration file /etc/ardour4/clearlooks.rc EngineControl::set_state Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Found nothing along /home/rocketmouse/.config/ardour4/templates:/usr/share/ardour4/templates run dialog Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started JACK command line will be: /usr/bin/jackd -t 200 -p 2048 -R -T -d alsa -n 2 -r 44100 -p 1024 -d hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0 -X raw Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jackdmp 1.9.10 Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. Copyright 2004-2014 Grame. jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details no message buffer overruns no message buffer overruns no message buffer overruns JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 self-connect-mode is "Don't restrict self connect requests" audio_reservation_init Acquire audio card Audio0 creating alsa driver ... hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0|hw:HDSPMx579bcc,0|1024|2|44100|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit configuring for 44100Hz, period = 1024 frames (23.2 ms), buffer = 2 periods ALSA: final selected sample format for capture: 32bit integer little-endian ALSA: use 16 periods for capture ALSA: final selected sample format for playback: 32bit integer little-endian ALSA: use 16 periods for playback scan: added port hw:0,0,0 in-hw-0-0-0-HDSPMx579bcc-MIDI-1 scan: added port hw:0,0,0 out-hw-0-0-0-HDSPMx579bcc-MIDI-1 scan: opened port hw:0,0,0 in-hw-0-0-0-HDSPMx579bcc-MIDI-1 scan: opened port hw:0,0,0 out-hw-0-0-0-HDSPMx579bcc-MIDI-1 Scanning folders for bundled LV2s: /usr/lib/ardour4/LV2 error: failed to expand CURIE `synthv1_lv2:103_LFO1' error: attempt to add quad with NULL field Set cursor set to default Set buffering params to 262144|131072|10|10 Set buffering params to 262144|131072|10|10 Skip explicit buffer seconds, preset in use Skip explicit buffer seconds, preset in use JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 35 port_dst = 15 JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 36 port_dst = 16 JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 33 JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 51 port_dst = 15 JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 52 port_dst = 16 actually writing state to /home/rocketmouse/Desktop/yet_another_new_session/yet_another_new_session.tmp renaming state to /home/rocketmouse/Desktop/yet_another_new_session/yet_another_new_session.ardour actually writing state to /home/rocketmouse/Desktop/yet_another_new_session/yet_another_new_session.tmp renaming state to /home/rocketmouse/Desktop/yet_another_new_session/yet_another_new_session.ardour

Hi Len, On Fri, 2016-02-19 at 13:47 -0800, Len Ovens wrote: Ardour failed to create new sessions with ALSA, at no time I tried to open an existing session. 1. $ ardour4 bind txt domain [gtk2_ardour4] to /usr/share/ardour4/locale Ardour4.7.0 (built using 4.7 and GCC version 5.3.0) [snip] 2. New Session 3. Session name: test_session Advanced options: untouched defaults   [x] Create master bus 2 channels   [x] Automatically connect to physical inputs     [ ] Use only 1 channels   [x] Automatically connect outputs     [x] ...to master bus     [ ] ...to physical outputs     [ ] Use only 0 channels 3. After "Open" Audio System: select ALSA, was JACK 4. 'Start' and/or 'OK' results in "Failed to open audio device" The audio device is unused, no web browser, no jackd or anything else that could use the device is running. [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pidof jackd [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ps aux|grep jack|grep -v grep [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ Regards, Ralf

On 02/19/2016 10:14 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Well that explains why it it won't, but not the reason behind it. What soundcard and settings did you configure? Wait. what? 16K buffers. WTH? 16 periods. Does jackd start with 2 or 3 periods on that given interface? Ardour's ALSA backend won't allow 16 periods (in case that's required by this particular soundcard/kernel) 2,3 are the only options. best, robin

On 02/19/2016 11:35 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: I should have been more specific, I meant which settings did you enter in the Audio/Midi Setup Dialog? Input-Device, Output-Device, Sample rate, Buffer size, Periods, ... You tell jack to use 2, but jack actually uses 16. and 64. I dimly recall seeing some message on LAU fly by about some RME devices requiring 16K buffers. If you have such a kernel/card, Ardour/ALSA won't currently support it directly, sorry. robin

On 02/19/2016 11:46 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: [...] That is correct, the AIO, same as the RayDAT has a fixed buffer of 16K. This means that regardless of the requested number of periods and frame size, it will always report a buffer size of 16K and a number of periods equal to buffersize divided by framesize. Never the less, if requested 2 periods with framesize of 64 samples, the card will still work correctly and have a latency that corresponds to 2 frames of 64 samples. As said before, there are applications that make (most likely too many) assumptions about these numbers and therefor break with these cards.

On 02/20/2016 03:46 AM, Markus Seeber wrote: Thanks for confirmation. What is the case for exposing those this to userland? I ask for two, I get behavior of two, but when checking the parameters the value is 16. That sounds like a bug to me. Did anyone flag this up at ALSA-dev, or report a bug? Ardour is not as forgiving as JACK. if a call to a snd_pcm_hw_params_* fails or if the requested value does not match the one reported by the card, it constitutes hard failure. best, robin

On 02/20/2016 11:32 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: Yes, since Ardour's ALSA backed uses zita-alsa-pcmi for audio, the behavior is the same. "As long as it is available" is key. While buffersize is not critical, jack choosing the closest available value has bitten a few users. These days some internal soundcards only support 48K. Even when requesting 44.1KSPS, jack silently falls back to use 48K (the closest available).

On 02/20/2016 12:57 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: [...] That was basically my guess too but I have not found any documentation on ALSA on that yet.

PS: On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:50:14 +0100, Robin Gareus wrote: I forgot to mention, at the moment actually no Envy card is installed and this are the only settings: [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf # ALSA module ordering options snd slots=snd_hdspm,snd_ice1712,snd_ice1712 [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ rtirq status PID CLS RTPRIO NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND 3 TS - 0 19 0.0 S ksoftirqd/0 14 TS - 0 19 0.0 S ksoftirqd/1 [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /etc/conf.d/rtirq|grep -v "#" RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="snd_hdsp snd_ice1" RTIRQ_PRIO_HIGH=90 RTIRQ_PRIO_DECR=5 RTIRQ_PRIO_LOW=51 RTIRQ_RESET_ALL=0 RTIRQ_NON_THREADED="rtc snd" Before the card can be used, there's the need to run 'hdspmixer'. 'hdspconf' does not work for this card, but some settings are available by 'alsamixer'.