17 Jul
2016
17 Jul
'16
5:33 p.m.
Dear list,
I recently bought a LinnStrument from Roger Linn Design:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.html
It is a great isomorphic midi-controller, and as such it is immediately
recognized on Linux.
The distinguishing feature of the LinnStrument is that it senses 3
degrees of freedom on each note: x-direction, y direction and
z-direction (pressure). The x-direction is mapped to pitch-bend, and
y-direction to CC74.
A cool feature is the "slide", where the pitch-bend is used to slide
between all notes in a row.
To allow individual pitch and CC74 values for each note, it sends each
note on a separate midi-channel ("MPE"):
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/implementing-mpe.html
Bitwig has added support for this, and there is 20 presets in version
1.3.11, where this is used (tag: linnstrument). The LinnStrument
controller is not recognized automatically on Linux in version 1.3.11,
but it can be configured manually, and then it works fine. Note that
both midi-in and midi-out has to be configured, if not there is no
sound! It should look like this: https://ibin.co/2msBJVgpKtf9.png
Now I would like to also use it with the free Linux synths.
Here's what I have been able to make work this far.
Synthv1:
PME works reasonably well: I can play polyphonic in MPE mode, but it
tends to miss the "note off"s.
I can get the slide to work, by setting
<param index="36" name="DEF1_PITCHBEND">2</param>
<param index="78" name="DEF2_PITCHBEND">2</param>
is a preset.
Zynaddsubfx:
I can not get MPE to work.
Sending only on one channel, and setting PWheelB.Rng to 2400 cents, I
cant get the sliding to work, but only when playing with one finger.
If I enable MPE on the LinnStrument there is only an occasional sound,
when it happens to send on the channel, that Zyn is listening on.
I'll love to hear if other LinnStrument users have been able to do more
with any of the free synths on Linux.
All the best,
Thomas
17 Jul
17 Jul
5:58 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:33:44 +0200, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
I recently bought a LinnStrument from Roger Linn
Design:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.html
http://www.thomann.de/gb/roger_linn_design_linnstrument.htm
Wow, for that much money you would get an iPad with much better
abilities regarding this kind of playing an instrument.
However, regarding touch screen to MIDI, MIDI remains MIDI, so there
should be no issues with Linux.
Zynaddsubfx:
I can not get MPE to work.
Sending only on one channel, and setting PWheelB.Rng to 2400 cents, I
cant get the sliding to work, but only when playing with one finger.
If I enable MPE on the LinnStrument there is only an occasional sound,
when it happens to send on the channel, that Zyn is listening on.
IIUC this MPE feature does use a new MIDI channel for each note, so if
it works for one MIDI channel, then it must work for more than one MIDI
channels, too. Resp. there's one issue with MIDI, a real slide can not
work from one MIDI channel to another. For some special features
provided by touch screens MIDI can not be used, that's why I mentioned
the iPAD, were special features are provided for some synth, but you
can't send them by MIDI. I only wonder why it works for Synthv1, OTOH I
wonder why note off events are missing. I guess you should use a MIDI
monitor and report us, what MIDI data exactly is sent during such a
polyphonic multi-MIDI-channel slide.
I'm unable to imagine how this works.
Regards,
Ralf
6:11 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:58:56 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:33:44 +0200, Thomas Poulsen
wrote:
PS:
For polyphonic slides faked by pitch bend there's one issue, the
management of wich channel provides for what note the slide to another
note on the same channel, or on another channel, let alone that not all
synth behave in the same way regarding pitch bend data. This workaround
of a real slide, where attack time, LFO sync and those things are no
issue by nature, is asking for trouble. Even if the management should
work as wanted, it easily could cause a data overflow, because MIDI
simply is to slow for this amount of data, by one MIDI cable. I'm using
MIDI since it was released to public and I always used separate MIDI
interfaces, cable, for each channel with high amounts of data.
I recently bought a LinnStrument from Roger Linn
Design:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.html
http://www.thomann.de/gb/roger_linn_design_linnstrument.htm
Wow, for that much money you would get an iPad with much better
abilities regarding this kind of playing an instrument.
However, regarding touch screen to MIDI, MIDI remains MIDI, so there
should be no issues with Linux.
Zynaddsubfx:
I can not get MPE to work.
Sending only on one channel, and setting PWheelB.Rng to 2400 cents, I
cant get the sliding to work, but only when playing with one finger.
If I enable MPE on the LinnStrument there is only an occasional
sound, when it happens to send on the channel, that Zyn is listening
on.
IIUC this MPE feature does use a new MIDI channel for each note, so if
it works for one MIDI channel, then it must work for more than one MIDI
channels, too. Resp. there's one issue with MIDI, a real slide can not
work from one MIDI channel to another. For some special features
provided by touch screens MIDI can not be used, that's why I mentioned
the iPAD, were special features are provided for some synth, but you
can't send them by MIDI. I only wonder why it works for Synthv1, OTOH I
wonder why note off events are missing. I guess you should use a MIDI
monitor and report us, what MIDI data exactly is sent during such a
polyphonic multi-MIDI-channel slide.
I'm unable to imagine how this works. 
6:15 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
wrote:
completely irrelevant.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:58:56 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
once again shooting off a complete bunch of crap. You've never even picked
up a Linnstrument, I would wager.
You could make an argument that the iPad is better value for money than the
Linnstrument, and I might not even disagree. But I don't think you really
understand anything about the physical interaction that the Linnstrument
makes possible.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:33:44 +0200, Thomas Poulsen
wrote:
I recently bought a LinnStrument from Roger Linn
Design:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.html
http://www.thomann.de/gb/roger_linn_design_linnstrument.htm
Wow, for that much money you would get an iPad with much better
abilities regarding this kind of playing an instrument.
However, regarding touch screen to MIDI, MIDI remains MIDI, so there
should be no issues with Linux.
6:41 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 12:15:55 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
You could make an argument that the iPad is better
value for money
than the Linnstrument, and I might not even disagree. But I don't
think you really understand anything about the physical interaction
that the Linnstrument makes possible.
That's correct. My point of view is just based on the value-for-money
ratio and the abilities regarding slides provided by instruments such as
e.g. Animoog (an iPad app), plus the fact that classical instruments
already provide much range for new playing techniques and that MIDI has
got limitations.
Indeed, I know everything about classic MIDI, but I never heard of MPE.
IMO intrducing new MIDI features at the same time that new computers
are unable to deliver the same jitter free hard real-time as old
computers do, is idiotic.
IMO getting something completely new, in one, as e.g. an iPad is one
approach, but trying to extend a weak interface to provide more than is
sane, is a step into the wrong direction.
MIDI always had limitations, with new computers, new issues were
introduced. Trying to expand MIDI isn't wise. It's better to introduce
a new standard, completely detached from the old MIDI standard.
Btw. there were many inventions, such as the Chapman Stick, but in the
end musicians most of the times preferred to invent new playing
techniques instead of playing new instruments such as the Chapman
Stick, let alone grotesque new instruments. Good new instruments are
something else and they are welcome, but a touch screen for MIDI usage
unlikely is something useful.
Linn always provided pretentious crap. Nobody is asking for the once
unpayable expensive Linn Drums, but everybody likes to use vintage
Roland drum machine emulations.
Regards,
Ralf
6:07 p.m.
MPE is a relatively new way to use MIDI, and almost no pre-existing MIDI
receiver can use it correctly.
I have looked into what it would take to get Ardour to work well it, and
concluded that I would put if off for a while. I actually Roger in Berlin
last November and greatly enjoyed interacting with the Linnstrument and
talking to him.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Thomas Poulsen <thomas(a)lha66.dk> wrote:
Dear list,
I recently bought a LinnStrument from Roger Linn Design:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.html
It is a great isomorphic midi-controller, and as such it is immediately
recognized on Linux.
The distinguishing feature of the LinnStrument is that it senses 3 degrees
of freedom on each note: x-direction, y direction and z-direction
(pressure). The x-direction is mapped to pitch-bend, and y-direction to
CC74.
A cool feature is the "slide", where the pitch-bend is used to slide
between all notes in a row.
To allow individual pitch and CC74 values for each note, it sends each
note on a separate midi-channel ("MPE"):
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/implementing-mpe.html
Bitwig has added support for this, and there is 20 presets in version
1.3.11, where this is used (tag: linnstrument). The LinnStrument controller
is not recognized automatically on Linux in version 1.3.11, but it can be
configured manually, and then it works fine. Note that both midi-in and
midi-out has to be configured, if not there is no sound! It should look
like this: https://ibin.co/2msBJVgpKtf9.png
Now I would like to also use it with the free Linux synths.
Here's what I have been able to make work this far.
Synthv1:
PME works reasonably well: I can play polyphonic in MPE mode, but it tends
to miss the "note off"s.
I can get the slide to work, by setting
<param index="36" name="DEF1_PITCHBEND">2</param>
<param index="78" name="DEF2_PITCHBEND">2</param>
is a preset.
Zynaddsubfx:
I can not get MPE to work.
Sending only on one channel, and setting PWheelB.Rng to 2400 cents, I cant
get the sliding to work, but only when playing with one finger.
If I enable MPE on the LinnStrument there is only an occasional sound,
when it happens to send on the channel, that Zyn is listening on.
I'll love to hear if other LinnStrument users have been able to do more
with any of the free synths on Linux.
All the best,
Thomas
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
6:29 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 12:07:05 -0400
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
MPE is a relatively new way to use MIDI, and almost no
pre-existing MIDI
receiver can use it correctly.
I have looked into what it would take to get Ardour to work well it, and
concluded that I would put if off for a while. I actually Roger in Berlin
last November and greatly enjoyed interacting with the Linnstrument and
talking to him.
Interesting.
The Y and Z axis controls seem relatively straightforward, and I can see how
you could get effective vibrato from pitch bend on X, but going across notes
seems seriously complicated.
I could just about imagine it with some form of auto-legato on a single
channel, but how do you *accurately* line up bend-high on one note with
bend-low on the next one up... and manage some form of volume fade without
getting phasing effects???
Gives me a headache just trying to think about it!
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
6:56 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:29:39 +0100, Will Godfrey wrote:
I could just about imagine it with some form of
auto-legato on a single
channel, but how do you *accurately* line up bend-high on one note with
bend-low on the next one up... and manage some form of volume fade
without getting phasing effects???
The pitch bend avoids this. You are using pitch bend to slide from note
c to not d on one MIDI channel and you use pitch bend to slide from
note e to note f on another MIDI channel, so you don't trigger a new
note, it's done by pitch bend. That's my guess ;).
10:28 p.m.
Thank you for the reply, Paul.
It would be truly wonderful with MPE/Linnstrument support in Ardour.
But I fully understand your position, if there are no free devices
supporting it yet.
A rather confusing mistyping snug into my post. The second sentence on
Zyn should read:
"Sending only on one channel, and setting PWheelB.Rng to 2400 cents, I
*can* get the sliding to work, but only when playing with one finger."
All the best,
Thomas
Den 17-07-2016 kl. 18:07 skrev Paul Davis:
MPE is a relatively new way to use MIDI, and almost no
pre-existing
MIDI receiver can use it correctly.
I have looked into what it would take to get Ardour to work well it,
and concluded that I would put if off for a while. I actually Roger in
Berlin last November and greatly enjoyed interacting with the
Linnstrument and talking to him.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Thomas Poulsen <thomas(a)lha66.dk
<mailto:thomas@lha66.dk>> wrote:
Dear list,
I recently bought a LinnStrument from Roger Linn Design:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.html
It is a great isomorphic midi-controller, and as such it is
immediately recognized on Linux.
The distinguishing feature of the LinnStrument is that it senses 3
degrees of freedom on each note: x-direction, y direction and
z-direction (pressure). The x-direction is mapped to pitch-bend,
and y-direction to CC74.
A cool feature is the "slide", where the pitch-bend is used to
slide between all notes in a row.
To allow individual pitch and CC74 values for each note, it sends
each note on a separate midi-channel ("MPE"):
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/implementing-mpe.html
Bitwig has added support for this, and there is 20 presets in
version 1.3.11, where this is used (tag: linnstrument). The
LinnStrument controller is not recognized automatically on Linux
in version 1.3.11, but it can be configured manually, and then it
works fine. Note that both midi-in and midi-out has to be
configured, if not there is no sound! It should look like this:
https://ibin.co/2msBJVgpKtf9.png
Now I would like to also use it with the free Linux synths.
Here's what I have been able to make work this far.
Synthv1:
PME works reasonably well: I can play polyphonic in MPE mode, but
it tends to miss the "note off"s.
I can get the slide to work, by setting
<param index="36" name="DEF1_PITCHBEND">2</param>
<param index="78" name="DEF2_PITCHBEND">2</param>
is a preset.
Zynaddsubfx:
I can not get MPE to work.
Sending only on one channel, and setting PWheelB.Rng to 2400
cents, I cant get the sliding to work, but only when playing with
one finger.
If I enable MPE on the LinnStrument there is only an occasional
sound, when it happens to send on the channel, that Zyn is
listening on.
I'll love to hear if other LinnStrument users have been able to do
more with any of the free synths on Linux.
All the best,
Thomas
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
<mailto:Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org>
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
11:09 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Thomas Poulsen <thomas(a)lha66.dk> wrote:
Thank you for the reply, Paul.
It would be truly wonderful with MPE/Linnstrument support in Ardour.
But I fully understand your position, if there are no free devices
supporting it yet.
Oh, I don't care about libre/gratis devices. I've just spent a few weeks
working on support for the Push 2. My attitude is shaped more by the amount
of work it may involve compared to the number of people who may benefit.
7:06 p.m.
On 07/17/2016 04:33 PM, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
...
Now I would like to also use it with the free Linux synths.
Here's what I have been able to make work this far.
Synthv1:
PME works reasonably well: I can play polyphonic in MPE mode, but it
tends to miss the "note off"s.
I can get the slide to work, by setting
<param index="36" name="DEF1_PITCHBEND">2</param>
<param index="78" name="DEF2_PITCHBEND">2</param>
is a preset.
now just wait there a little bit:
synthv1 has no support for MPE whasoever! you're probably being
fooled--in the good sense i mean:)--by its MIDI polyphonic
key-pressure/after-touch implementation, which is currently hardwired to
modulate key/note running volume and nothing more.
byee
--
rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela
7:30 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:06:24 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
On 07/17/2016 04:33 PM, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
Polyphonic portamento anyway is something very relative. The DX7
provides some kind of it, but for sure not the desired kind of slide.
OTOH the Animoog actually doesn't, but the Animoog provides playing
a polyphonic sound and if wanted monophonic portamento for this
polyphonic sound by a special virtual keyboard. IOW what the Animoog
provides indeed is something useful, but AFAIK not available via MIDI
send, you need to play and record the virtual instrument by an audio
track. This at least is what I experienced. Even while playing an
instrument by touch screen has some advantages, for me playing an
instrument by a real keyboard still has got more advantages, playing by
touch screen comes with too man drawbacks for my taste.
YMMV!
...
Now I would like to also use it with the free Linux synths.
Here's what I have been able to make work this far.
Synthv1:
PME works reasonably well: I can play polyphonic in MPE mode, but it
tends to miss the "note off"s.
I can get the slide to work, by setting
<param index="36" name="DEF1_PITCHBEND">2</param>
<param index="78" name="DEF2_PITCHBEND">2</param>
is a preset.
now just wait there a little bit:
synthv1 has no support for MPE whasoever! you're probably being
fooled--in the good sense i mean:)--by its MIDI polyphonic
key-pressure/after-touch implementation, which is currently hardwired
to modulate key/note running volume and nothing more. 
10:14 p.m.
On 17.07.2016 17:33, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
I'll love to hear if other LinnStrument users have
been able to do more with any of the free synths on Linux.
I happed to have a piece of hardware that I've taught to send MPE recently. Often you
can configure decent
synths manually to acceptably work with MPE.
If you activate MPE on your device, it'll send some magic RPNs to the synth to
configure it. Specifically, the
device tells the synth how many zones/groups it has (1-8), how many voices each zone has,
which MIDI channel
range a zone spans over and finally the master and the voice pitch bend range for each
zone.
A synth that supports MPE would understand those messages and configure itself
accordingly. If you know all of
the above (e.g. reading the device's manual or by spoofing on the RPNs), you can
configure the synth manually.
E.g. here is how to manually configure Zyn with known zone layout and pitch bend ranges.
Example 1
---------
Let's assume 1 zone (implies 15 voices) and a voice pitch bend range of 48 semitones.
Channel 1: master | zone 1 (unused)
Channel 2: voice 1 | zone 1
Channel 3: voice 2 | zone 1
Channel 4: voice 3 | zone 1
Channel 5: voice 4 | zone 1
Channel 6: voice 5 | zone 1
Channel 7: voice 6 | zone 1
Channel 8: voice 7 | zone 1
Channel 9: voice 8 | zone 1
Channel 10: voice 9 | zone 1
Channel 11: voice 10 | zone 1
Channel 12: voice 11 | zone 1
Channel 13: voice 12 | zone 1
Channel 14: voice 13 | zone 1
Channel 15: voice 14 | zone 1
Channel 16: voice 15 | zone 1
With one zone, channels 2-16 represent 15 voices of the same instrument. Your device thus
sends notes in a
round-robin fashion on channels 2-16.
So, simply activate channels 2-16 in Zyn, load the same instrument on all of them (really
tedious, I know,
but this may be automatable) and set the pitch bend range for channels 2-16 to 48000
cents.
Example 2
---------
Let's assume 2 zones (7 voices each) and a voice pitch bend range of 24 semitones for
zone 1 and 48 semitones
for zone 2.
Channel 1: master | zone 1 (unused)
Channel 2: voice 1 | zone 1
Channel 3: voice 2 | zone 1
Channel 4: voice 3 | zone 1
Channel 5: voice 4 | zone 1
Channel 6: voice 5 | zone 1
Channel 7: voice 6 | zone 1
Channel 8: voice 7 | zone 1
Channel 9: master | zone 2 (unused)
Channel 10: voice 1 | zone 2
Channel 11: voice 2 | zone 2
Channel 12: voice 3 | zone 2
Channel 13: voice 4 | zone 2
Channel 14: voice 5 | zone 2
Channel 15: voice 6 | zone 2
Channel 16: voice 7 | zone 2
Your device sends notes for instrument 1 in a round-robin fashion on channels 2-8, for
instrument 2 on
channels 10-16.
Activate channels 2-8 and 10-16 in Zyn, load your first instrument on channels 2-8, your
second instrument
on channels 10-16. Set pitch bend range for channels 2-8 to 24000 cents, for channels
10-16 to 48000 cents.
11:10 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 22:23:54 +0200
Hanspeter Portner <dev(a)open-music-kontrollers.ch> wrote:
On 17.07.2016 22:14, Hanspeter Portner wrote:
OK, I'm beginning to get a hazy idea of how this works - I hadn't realised you
expanded the pitch wheel range.
It should be fairly simple to create a new 'MPE mode' for zyn/yoshi based on
the incoming RPNs so that loading a new instrument into any part in the zone,
loads it in to all of them. That (combined with activate on load) would take out
the tedium. Presumably, normal MIDI program/bank change can be used to actually
load the instruments.
Like Fons, I'm curious about the function of the master channel.
Now, who can lend me a LinnStrument :P
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
on channels 10-16. Set pitch bend range for
channels 2-8 to 24000 cents, for channels 10-16 to 48000 cents.
Should be 2400 and 4800 cents, of course :) 
10:39 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:14:29PM +0200, Hanspeter Portner wrote:
Example 2
---------
...
Your device sends notes for instrument 1 in a round-robin fashion on channels 2-8, for
instrument 2 on
channels 10-16.
Why are the 'master' channels not used for notes as well ?
In other words is there a conflict with what they are
used for ?
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
11:12 p.m.
On 17.07.2016 22:39, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:14:29PM +0200, Hanspeter
Portner wrote:
Controller messages sent to the zone master channel may change properties for all voices
in that zone, e.g. volume.
Note messages are not allowed or ignored, iirc
This is thing that cannot be mimicked manually for zyn. Needs some logic.
Not sure whether this is the most recent version of the spec
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vpjxoPHw82X3xyNvE6_hsDeL86vloNQZC83NHD8…
Example 2
---------
...
Your device sends notes for instrument 1 in a round-robin fashion on channels 2-8, for
instrument 2 on
channels 10-16.
Why are the 'master' channels not used for notes as well ?
In other words is there a conflict with what they are
used for ?
11:22 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 23:11:58 +0200
Hanspeter Portner <dev(a)open-music-kontrollers.ch> wrote:
On 17.07.2016 22:39, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
Seems to be. I just this minute found it.... and what the master does :)
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:14:29PM +0200,
Hanspeter Portner wrote:
Controller messages sent to the zone master channel may change properties for all voices
in that zone, e.g. volume.
Note messages are not allowed or ignored, iirc
This is thing that cannot be mimicked manually for zyn. Needs some logic.
Not sure whether this is the most recent version of the spec
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vpjxoPHw82X3xyNvE6_hsDeL86vloNQZC83NHD8…
Example 2
---------
...
Your device sends notes for instrument 1 in a round-robin fashion on channels 2-8, for
instrument 2 on
channels 10-16.
Why are the 'master' channels not used for notes as well ?
In other words is there a conflict with what they are
used for ?
10:43 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 22:14:29 +0200, Hanspeter Portner wrote:
On 17.07.2016 17:33, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
And assumed the data flow should cause that much traffic for a single
MIDI interface, that e.g. note offs get lost? I just ask, since the OP
mentions missing note-off events.
It's idiotic to use old school MIDI by trying to expand it, while it
already didn't provide the ability with old school
non-multi-tasking-direct-midi-hardware-access-but-absolutely-hard-real-time
computers to do things like that. Nowadays computer design by nature
can't provide this in a sane way. Resp. it might be possible by using
several MIDI IOs for such a task, but it's at least risky, when using
a single MIDI interface. JFTR not all MIDI interfaces are using the
same chips and/or diodes to provide edge steepness, sometimes adjusting
a potentiometer could do magic.
Good luck!
I'll love to hear if other LinnStrument users
have been able to do
more with any of the free synths on Linux.
I happed to have a piece of hardware that I've taught to send MPE
recently. Often you can configure decent synths manually to acceptably
work with MPE.
If you activate MPE on your device, it'll send some magic RPNs to the
synth to configure it. Specifically, the device tells the synth how
many zones/groups it has (1-8), how many voices each zone has, which
MIDI channel range a zone spans over and finally the master and the
voice pitch bend range for each zone.
A synth that supports MPE would understand those messages and
configure itself accordingly. If you know all of the above (e.g.
reading the device's manual or by spoofing on the RPNs), you can
configure the synth manually.
E.g. here is how to manually configure Zyn with known zone layout and
pitch bend ranges.
Example 1
---------
Let's assume 1 zone (implies 15 voices) and a voice pitch bend range
of 48 semitones.
Channel 1: master | zone 1 (unused)
Channel 2: voice 1 | zone 1
Channel 3: voice 2 | zone 1
Channel 4: voice 3 | zone 1
Channel 5: voice 4 | zone 1
Channel 6: voice 5 | zone 1
Channel 7: voice 6 | zone 1
Channel 8: voice 7 | zone 1
Channel 9: voice 8 | zone 1
Channel 10: voice 9 | zone 1
Channel 11: voice 10 | zone 1
Channel 12: voice 11 | zone 1
Channel 13: voice 12 | zone 1
Channel 14: voice 13 | zone 1
Channel 15: voice 14 | zone 1
Channel 16: voice 15 | zone 1
With one zone, channels 2-16 represent 15 voices of the same
instrument. Your device thus sends notes in a round-robin fashion on
channels 2-16.
So, simply activate channels 2-16 in Zyn, load the same instrument on
all of them (really tedious, I know, but this may be automatable) and
set the pitch bend range for channels 2-16 to 48000 cents.
Example 2
---------
Let's assume 2 zones (7 voices each) and a voice pitch bend range of
24 semitones for zone 1 and 48 semitones for zone 2.
Channel 1: master | zone 1 (unused)
Channel 2: voice 1 | zone 1
Channel 3: voice 2 | zone 1
Channel 4: voice 3 | zone 1
Channel 5: voice 4 | zone 1
Channel 6: voice 5 | zone 1
Channel 7: voice 6 | zone 1
Channel 8: voice 7 | zone 1
Channel 9: master | zone 2 (unused)
Channel 10: voice 1 | zone 2
Channel 11: voice 2 | zone 2
Channel 12: voice 3 | zone 2
Channel 13: voice 4 | zone 2
Channel 14: voice 5 | zone 2
Channel 15: voice 6 | zone 2
Channel 16: voice 7 | zone 2
Your device sends notes for instrument 1 in a round-robin fashion on
channels 2-8, for instrument 2 on channels 10-16.
Activate channels 2-8 and 10-16 in Zyn, load your first instrument on
channels 2-8, your second instrument on channels 10-16. Set pitch bend
range for channels 2-8 to 24000 cents, for channels 10-16 to 48000
cents.
18 Jul
18 Jul
10:33 p.m.
Thank you all for your responses.
I had not thought of configuring the same instrument on all channels in zyn.
That actually works, but it takes quite a bit of time :-)
Is these a way to do so by a script?
Below I include the output from aseqdump in different situations to help
illustrate how the MPE works.
First: disabling x, y and z sensitivity, just repeating the same note
shows the MPE cycling the channels:
Source Event Ch Data
24:0 Note on 14, note 60, velocity 100
24:0 Note off 14, note 60, velocity 64
24:0 Note on 15, note 60, velocity 103
24:0 Note off 15, note 60, velocity 64
24:0 Note on 1, note 60, velocity 107
24:0 Note off 1, note 60, velocity 64
24:0 Note on 2, note 60, velocity 123
24:0 Note off 2, note 60, velocity 64
Next, enabling only z-sensitivity (pressure), playing a single note
once, gives:
Source Event Ch Data
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 0
24:0 Note on 3, note 60, velocity 60
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 9
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 104
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 117
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 120
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 123
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 124
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 125
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 126
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 127
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 110
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 78
24:0 Channel aftertouch 3, value 0
24:0 Note off 3, note 60, velocity 64
Enabling only y-sensitivity, playing a note while moving upward on the
pad gives this (abbreviated):
Source Event Ch Data
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 17
24:0 Note on 10, note 60, velocity 38
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 19
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 20
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 22
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 23
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 24
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 25
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 26
... (removed 34 lines)
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 117
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 121
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 124
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 126
24:0 Control change 10, controller 74, value 127
24:0 Note off 10, note 60, velocity 64
Enabling only x-sensitivity and sliding up one octave gives the output
below (abbreviated)
Source Event Ch Data
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 0
24:0 Note on 13, note 60, velocity 47
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -16
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 0
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -20
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -18
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -16
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -12
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -18
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -12
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -6
... deleted 18 lines
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -2
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -6
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 0
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value -2
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 0
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 10
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 6
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 14
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 16
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 32
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 24
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 34
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 36
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 40
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 38
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 36
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 38
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 32
... deleted 10 lines
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 134
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 140
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 142
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 156
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 162
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 172
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 170
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 172
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 188
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 196
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 204
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 216
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 224
... deleted 212 lines
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4054
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4062
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4066
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4074
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4078
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4082
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4084
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4086
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4088
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4090
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4096
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4092
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4096
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4100
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4096
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4094
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4096
24:0 Note off 13, note 60, velocity 64
Finally, enabling x-, y- and z-sensitivity (std configuration), holding
down one note while doing the slide up one octave with the other hand
gives quite a lot of information.
Below is a sample, the full file is here: http://pastebin.com/bN0nRX6u
Source Event Ch Data
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 0
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 96
24:0 Channel aftertouch 13, value 0
24:0 Note on 13, note 48, velocity 127
24:0 Channel aftertouch 13, value 127
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 8
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 100
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 4
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 2
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 0
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 101
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 2
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 103
24:0 Pitch bend 13, value 0
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 104
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 103
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 99
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 97
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 95
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 94
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 0
24:0 Control change 14, controller 74, value 60
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 0
24:0 Note on 14, note 60, velocity 48
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 5
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 105
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 8
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 25
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 20
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 31
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 14
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 37
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 104
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 22
24:0 Control change 14, controller 74, value 59
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 41
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 102
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 30
24:0 Control change 14, controller 74, value 60
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 42
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 48
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 44
24:0 Pitch bend 14, value 30
24:0 Control change 14, controller 74, value 59
24:0 Channel aftertouch 14, value 45
24:0 Control change 13, controller 74, value 101
An important factor for me in deciding to buy the LinnStrument was that
the entire firmware is free software:
https://github.com/rogerlinndesign/linnstrument-firmware
- that does not hold for an Ipad as far as I know.
The developer of the firmware, Geert Bevin, has described some of the
lessons learned here:
http://www.slideshare.net/gbevin/linnstrument-the-ultimate-opensource-hacke…
I think it would be really cool to be able to play this "open source
instrument" with free software tools.
In any case I'll be happy to test and report back if you come up with
more ideas to try.
All the best,
Thomas
19 Jul
19 Jul
10:15 a.m.
On 18.07.2016 22:33, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
I had not thought of configuring the same instrument
on all channels in zyn.
That actually works, but it takes quite a bit of time :-)
Is these a way to do so by a script?
Zyn can be configured via OSC [1].
[1] http://fundamental-code.com/zyn-ports2/
11:59 a.m.
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 22:33:50 +0200, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
An important factor for me in deciding to buy the
LinnStrument was
that the entire firmware is free software:
https://github.com/rogerlinndesign/linnstrument-firmware
- that does not hold for an Ipad as far as I know.
The iPad does use iOS and comes with lot of issues, that's true and
apart from battery issues, audio real-time has some limits regarding
memory and even while some sync abilities are very good, sync
sometimes is unusable. However, the cost-benefit ratio is amazing for
music usage. AFAIK all good music software for the iPad is closed
source, but often it's not expensive.
AFAIK there's no Linux based tablet PC usable for real-time audio, I
guess it's possible to use Linux tower PCs and Laptops with touch
screens, so just the music software for touch screens seems to be
missing.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of people like Linn products, it's just my
point of view, that Linn always had an IMO bad cost-benefit ratio and
the products often are trendy, but after a while not much wanted
anymore.
Good to hear that you get LinnStrument working with Zyn.
Regards,
Ralf
3 Oct
3 Oct
9:58 p.m.
Dear list,
I'm reviving this old thread, as there is some new development in terms
of free synthesizers supporting the Linnstrument.
Roger Linn has released some really great sounding presets for the Surge
XT free software synthesizer: https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/
The presets can be downloaded from here:
https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/support/ls-surge, and are demoed in this
video: https://youtu.be/T-mKyShEvKg
Great that there is now more easy to use, high quality, free software
options for playing the Linnstrument.
All the best,
Thomas
On 17/07/2016 17.33, Thomas Poulsen wrote:
Dear list,
I recently bought a LinnStrument from Roger Linn Design:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.html
It is a great isomorphic midi-controller, and as such it is
immediately recognized on Linux.
The distinguishing feature of the LinnStrument is that it senses 3
degrees of freedom on each note: x-direction, y direction and
z-direction (pressure). The x-direction is mapped to pitch-bend, and
y-direction to CC74.
A cool feature is the "slide", where the pitch-bend is used to slide
between all notes in a row.
To allow individual pitch and CC74 values for each note, it sends each
note on a separate midi-channel ("MPE"):
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/implementing-mpe.html
Bitwig has added support for this, and there is 20 presets in version
1.3.11, where this is used (tag: linnstrument). The LinnStrument
controller is not recognized automatically on Linux in version 1.3.11,
but it can be configured manually, and then it works fine. Note that
both midi-in and midi-out has to be configured, if not there is no
sound! It should look like this: https://ibin.co/2msBJVgpKtf9.png
Now I would like to also use it with the free Linux synths.
Here's what I have been able to make work this far.
Synthv1:
PME works reasonably well: I can play polyphonic in MPE mode, but it
tends to miss the "note off"s.
I can get the slide to work, by setting
<param index="36" name="DEF1_PITCHBEND">2</param>
<param index="78" name="DEF2_PITCHBEND">2</param>
is a preset.
Zynaddsubfx:
I can not get MPE to work.
Sending only on one channel, and setting PWheelB.Rng to 2400 cents, I
cant get the sliding to work, but only when playing with one finger.
If I enable MPE on the LinnStrument there is only an occasional sound,
when it happens to send on the channel, that Zyn is listening on.
I'll love to hear if other LinnStrument users have been able to do
more with any of the free synths on Linux.
All the best,
Thomas
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22 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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Fons Adriaensen -
Hanspeter Portner -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf -
Rui Nuno Capela -
Thomas Poulsen -
Will Godfrey