16 Dec
2013
16 Dec
'13
5:21 p.m.
Hello, list.
Last time I had a gig in a club where the sound system was really huge, and
I noticed that my signal wasn't loud enough.
I was using just headphone jack out from my laptop, and it hasn't been a
problem...I did plenty of gigs like that and it worked out pretty well. but
with this huge system, my max output didn't even hit the half of level
meter on the main mixer....as I'm obsessed with being loud, I was ashamed
and I need a solution.
I've been told that if I use a dedicated sound card, my output signal can
boost significantly.
is it true?
although it sounds like it makes sense, I doubt it a little bit because I
don't see any output pre-amps...etc. on the sound cards spec. (for inputs,
yes. but what matters for me is the level of output)
BUT if it's true,
what card you recommend to me?
my conditions are:
1. of course, my purpose is to boost my output signal, it has to satisfy
that first of all.
2. my budget is around 100-150 euro, but if needed, I can go a big higher.
3. I'm on Ubuntu 13.10, on lenovo ideapad Y500. I'm not the kind of guy who
can trouble shoot very well, hacking firmwares or whatever. so plug and
play, 'work out of box' kinda card will be great.
4. I do not have firewire port on my laptop, so it must be USB.
5. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've been told also that some
cards output more 'warmer' sounds. I want to prevent that. I want my output
LOUD but NOT warm.
so far, I found this:
http://www.thomann.de/pl/akai_eie_pro.htm
it looks like it will boost some signal. well, it 'looks' like. some of you
guys have this one? some reviews maybe?
also I've been told that the use of little table top compressor can help,
like this one:
http://www.thomann.de/pl/fmr_audio_rnc_1773.htm
if it's the case, maybe I won't need a soundcard. or do I need both? or do
you know some usb sound card that can combine the both??
thank you for all your thoughts and advices.
best,
jae
--
Jae Ho YOUN
http://jaehoyoun.com
http://advancedsituation.com/
16 Dec
16 Dec
5:56 p.m.
Djého Youn wrote:
Last time I had a gig in a club where the sound system
was really huge, and I noticed that my signal wasn't loud enough.
I was using just headphone jack out from my laptop
I guess such a sound system does not behave like a pair of headphones.
Apparently, your laptop does not have a line output jack?
I've been told that if I use a dedicated sound
card, my output signal can boost significantly.
You need _some_ device with a line-level output, either a line out
jack on your laptop, or an external device.
although it sounds like it makes sense, I doubt it a
little bit because I don't see any output pre-amps...etc. on the sound cards spec.
Amplifiers are needed if the output is supposed to _drive_ the actual
speakers, i.e., if the signal is supposed to have enough energy to move
the speaker membrane. (This is quite easy with the tiny speakers used
in headphones.)
A line output does not have much power; its only purpose is to provide
a voltage level that is then measured and applied to the speaker outputs
of a 'real' amplifier. (Neither your laptop nor a USB device would be
capable of providing thousands of watts for that really huge sound
system.)
The problem with the headphone jack is that it does not provide the
correct voltage level when it is connected to a line input.
what card you recommend to me?
Any simple USB stereo playback device with line outputs.
That is overkill. In theory, something cheap like this is adequate:
http://www.thomann.de/pl/behringer_ucontrol_uca_222.htm
Regards,
Clemens
17 Dec
17 Dec
10:58 a.m.
On 12/16/2013 06:56 AM, Clemens Ladisch wrote:
Djého Youn wrote:
I have a Behringer UCA-202. Works for me. I've run its line out into our
powered mixer and got good clean output.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
what card you recommend to me?
Any simple USB stereo playback device with line outputs.
That is overkill. In theory, something cheap like this is adequate:
http://www.thomann.de/pl/behringer_ucontrol_uca_222.htm 
16 Dec
16 Dec
5:59 p.m.
Hi,
a raw, not absolute explanation:
You can get cheap envy24 sound devices at Ebay, they provide +4dB and
-10dB for the IOs. +4dB is used for professional audio and -10dB is
consumer level. The phones output of your Laptop should work too, I
suspect the audio engineers didn't like you or they had no knowledge how
to fix the issue. Anyway, the sound quality of an Envy24 audio device
will be much better than that of you Laptop's onboard device, epecially
better than the output of the headphones amp. There are professional
audio devices available, that do sound much, much, much better, but they
are beyond your price limit. You could try to get an Art Tube Pre Amp,
at Ebay too, this is prosumer, but also used by professionals. They are
cheap and good.
Regards,
Ralf
6:13 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 05:21:30PM +0100, Djého Youn wrote:
I was using just headphone jack out from my laptop,
and it hasn't been a
problem...I did plenty of gigs like that and it worked out pretty well. but
with this huge system, my max output didn't even hit the half of level
meter on the main mixer....as I'm obsessed with being loud, I was ashamed
and I need a solution.
Increase the gain on the main mixer.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
6:29 p.m.
On Mon, 2013-12-16 at 17:13 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 05:21:30PM +0100, Djého Youn
wrote:
IOW the input potentiometers of the mixing console, usually the first
potentiometer on top of a mixing console's channel is for adjusting the
input signal. This adjustments are independent to the channel's and
sum's faders.
I was using just headphone jack out from my
laptop, and it hasn't been a
problem...I did plenty of gigs like that and it worked out pretty well. but
with this huge system, my max output didn't even hit the half of level
meter on the main mixer....as I'm obsessed with being loud, I was ashamed
and I need a solution.
Increase the gain on the main mixer.
6:48 p.m.
hello,
thanks for all the answers.
for those who gave advice with main mixer, 'sorry I wasn't that clear. but
mixer's input gain was max. and it was only half on the meter. then
boosting mixer's channel/master only made my sound horribly distorted.
it seems that getting soundcard is a good option as I understand that
clemen's explanation on headphone jack out problem. (btw, I never, ever saw
a lap top computer with line out. does it really exist or you mean a
desktop pc with some tweaks?)
this looks quite nice...as it's preamp AND soundcard...if soundcard doesn't
make my signal louder, then I can use it as preamp..if I got it right.
http://www.thomann.de/pl/art_usb_dual_tube_pre.htm
does anyone used this with ubuntu 13.10 on modern laptops? a quick web
search shows that it *can* work but have no drivers. 'seems that some
people has troubles with it.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>wrote;wrote:
On Mon, 2013-12-16 at 17:13 +0000, Fons Adriaensen
wrote:
IOW the input potentiometers of the mixing console, usually the first
potentiometer on top of a mixing console's channel is for adjusting the
input signal. This adjustments are independent to the channel's and
sum's faders.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
Jae Ho YOUN
http://jhyoun.wordpress.com/
http://jaehoyoun.com
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 05:21:30PM +0100, Djého
Youn wrote:
> I was using just headphone jack out from my laptop, and it hasn't been
a
> problem...I did plenty of gigs like that and
it worked out pretty
well. but
> with this huge system, my max output
didn't even hit the half of level
> meter on the main mixer....as I'm obsessed with being loud, I was
ashamed
and I
need a solution.
Increase the gain on the main mixer. 
7:10 p.m.
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:48:32 +0100
Djého Youn <ydjeho(a)gmail.com> wrote:
for those who gave advice with main mixer, 'sorry
I wasn't that clear. but
mixer's input gain was max. and it was only half on the meter. then
boosting mixer's channel/master only made my sound horribly distorted.
Headphoune out is a different impedance than line out, it's really easy
to overload a line input. I'm a little suspicious of the level into the
main mixer though; you should have had more than enough signal for the board.
I suspect there was some user error at the mixer.
this looks quite nice...as it's preamp AND
soundcard...if soundcard doesn't
make my signal louder, then I can use it as preamp..if I got it right.
http://www.thomann.de/pl/art_usb_dual_tube_pre.htm
does anyone used this with ubuntu 13.10 on modern laptops?
I use an ART DualPre (not the tube model) with ArchLinux regularly with
no issues at all. It worked fine when I used Fedora as well but I
switched to Arch a while back and havent tested it in a while. There
shouldn't be any driver issues, it follows the USB audio interface spec
pretty well.
The ART will give a much better signal, and the line outs use balanced 1/4"
TRS connectors so you can get a quieter signal if you use the appropriate
patch cables.
Good luck!
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
7:16 p.m.
On Mon, 2013-12-16 at 13:10 -0500, Joe Hartley wrote:
I suspect there was some user error at the mixer.
There was! The settings for the input, the trim/gain of the channel
pre-fader was not adjusted correctly.
Regarding to the pre amps, I was thinking of getting warmer sound, less
about the level.
7:42 p.m.
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:16:31 +0100
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
Regarding to the pre amps, I was thinking of getting
warmer sound, less
about the level.
I've recently built a few headphone amps that fit in Altoid tins.
It's barely about boosting the output level (though it will do that)
and more about making the source device's output work less hard and
possibly distort.
The URL below goes to a page that compares many different op-amp chips
and discusses (among other things) the wau they affect the sound. I
ended up using the TI OPA2132P (a dual version of the Burr-Brown OPA132)
and I quite like the way it sounds.
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
7:45 p.m.
On Mon, 2013-12-16 at 13:42 -0500, Joe Hartley wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:16:31 +0100
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
You forgot to post the URL :D.
Regarding to the pre amps, I was thinking of
getting warmer sound, less
about the level.
I've recently built a few headphone amps that fit in Altoid tins.
It's barely about boosting the output level (though it will do that)
and more about making the source device's output work less hard and
possibly distort.
The URL below goes to a page that compares many different op-amp chips
and discusses (among other things) the wau they affect the sound. I
ended up using the TI OPA2132P (a dual version of the Burr-Brown OPA132)
and I quite like the way it sounds.
7:47 p.m.
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:45:13 +0100
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Mon, 2013-12-16 at 13:42 -0500, Joe Hartley wrote:
I do that a lot.
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamps.html
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:16:31 +0100
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
You forgot to post the URL :D. Regarding to the pre amps, I was thinking of
getting warmer sound, less
about the level.
I've recently built a few headphone amps that fit in Altoid tins.
It's barely about boosting the output level (though it will do that)
and more about making the source device's output work less hard and
possibly distort.
The URL below goes to a page that compares many different op-amp chips
and discusses (among other things) the wau they affect the sound. I
ended up using the TI OPA2132P (a dual version of the Burr-Brown OPA132)
and I quite like the way it sounds.
10:06 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 01:10:31PM -0500, Joe Hartley wrote:
Headphoune out is a different impedance than line out,
it's really easy
to overload a line input. I'm a little suspicious of the level into the
main mixer though; you should have had more than enough signal for the board.
Headphone outs are very low impedance, which is perfectly OK for a
line input (pro line outs are low Z as well). Most HP outs today are
designed for 32 ohm earbuds and should be able to provide sufficient
signal to a mixer line in, at least if the mixer has an input gain
control on the line input, as most have.
But an HP out won't provide a real 'pro' line level. And beware of
the specs of some sound cards. They claim 'pro' level line outs at
+4 dBu. But more often than not, that means their peak level is +4
dBu, while in the pro world that is the _working level_, with peaks
being 12..15 dB higher.
I suspect there was some user error at the mixer.
Yep. Or the system just wasn't as powerful as the OP believed it was.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
10:55 p.m.
On Monday 16 December 2013 16:44:26 Fons Adriaensen did opine:
Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Horner's Five Thumb Postulate:
Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.
A pen in the hand of this president is far more
dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
law-abiding citizens.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 01:10:31PM -0500, Joe Hartley
wrote:
But the average sound card, running on the system 5 volt bus is all tapped
out at +4, clipping anything that goes above that. Some may tap the system
+ and - 12 volt for the output stage, so those will, if everything is
right, still clip at +20 or so which in some music can be hit even if the
meter only says +4. To hit + 30dbm takes about 16 to 17 volts on each
supply rail. No computer offers that much at its pci sockets. And some,
in an effort to be as power miserly as they can be, will have significant,
see it on the o-scope, cross-over distortion at any level.
Driving the average earbud, they can get away with murdering the music &
few can hear the diff. Sad but true too many times.
Headphoune out is a different impedance than line
out, it's really
easy to overload a line input. I'm a little suspicious of the level
into the main mixer though; you should have had more than enough
signal for the board.
Headphone outs are very low impedance, which is perfectly OK for a
line input (pro line outs are low Z as well). Most HP outs today are
designed for 32 ohm earbuds and should be able to provide sufficient
signal to a mixer line in, at least if the mixer has an input gain
control on the line input, as most have.
But an HP out won't provide a real 'pro' line level. And beware of
the specs of some sound cards. They claim 'pro' level line outs at
+4 dBu. But more often than not, that means their peak level is +4
dBu, while in the pro world that is the _working level_, with peaks
being 12..15 dB higher. I suspect
there was some user error at the mixer.
Yep. Or the system just wasn't as powerful as the OP believed it was.
Ciao,
17 Dec
17 Dec
12:11 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 04:55:45PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
But the average sound card, running on the system 5
volt bus is all tapped
out at +4, clipping anything that goes above that.
Indeed. +4 dBu is nearly 3.5 V pp, you can't expect much more
from a single 5 V power supply.
A decent 'pro' line out will be able to drive something like
+20 dBV (10 V RMS) into 200 ohms. That's 1/2 W.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
16 Dec
16 Dec
9:51 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 06:48:32PM +0100, Djého Youn wrote:
for those who gave advice with main mixer, 'sorry
I wasn't that clear. but
mixer's input gain was max. and it was only half on the meter. then
boosting mixer's channel/master only made my sound horribly distorted.
If that is the case, the problem is with the mixer or the amplifier
system following it, not with your signal. If the signal was undistorted
at the lower level, and boosting it in the mixer causes distortion, then
either the mixer or the amps are generating that distortion.
Or it could be that you were sending some signal that the mixer
or amps couldn't handle, e.g. very high level subsonic signals.
But these should have shown up on the mixer's meters, so that was
probably not the problem.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
10:25 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 06:48:32PM +0100, Djého Youn wrote:
This won't solve the problem you reported. And with the info
at hand I don't think that problem was due to your equipment
at all.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
17 Dec
17 Dec
12:16 a.m.
On 17/12/13 08:25, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 06:48:32PM +0100, Djého Youn
wrote:
This won't solve the problem
you reported. And with the info
at hand I don't think that problem was due to your equipment
at all.
Ciao,
Totally agree. I work regularly on a 20,000 watt PA system with Digico
consoles. We often have artists using Macs from headphone out, or those
little digital music player thingies from headphone outs, which are more
than capable of driving the system to maximum volume.
Your computer was almost definitely not the problem unless you had the
output level set /really/ low.
Somewhere the gain stages were set wrong.
12:27 a.m.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:16:25AM +1100, Roger wrote:
Totally agree. I work regularly on a 20,000 watt PA
system with
Digico consoles.
:-) Great mixers. A bit too baroque visually (for my taste),
but technically superb.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
2:55 a.m.
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013, Djého Youn wrote:
thanks for all the answers.
Just in case... are you talking on stage volume or mains volume?
for those who gave advice with main mixer, 'sorry
I wasn't that clear. but
mixer's input gain was max. and it was only half on the meter. then boosting
mixer's channel/master only made my sound horribly distorted.
When it is distorted, what does it sound like with headphones? You need to
know where the distortion is actually happening... are you turning your
computer to max and distorting in there? Are you using a DI box into the
mic input? (try it) Or going into a line in... A DI box is more in line
with the inputs of a cheaper mixer. Or an "instrument" input may work
better than line in.
this looks quite nice...as it's preamp AND
soundcard...if soundcard doesn't
make my signal louder, then I can use it as preamp..if I got it right.
http://www.thomann.de/pl/art_usb_dual_tube_pre.htm
does anyone used this with ubuntu 13.10 on modern laptops? a quick web
search shows that it *can* work but have no drivers. 'seems that some people
has troubles with it.
I have one and like it. It has been plug and play as it is USB1.1
compatible. It is 16bit at 44.1 or 48k or the s/pdif is 24bit (I use it as
a pre for the s/pdif in my Delta sound card too. It has it's own power
supply so the 5volt USB supply is not an issue. I like the sound better
than any of the builtin audio cards. It works fine with both pulse and
jack. (and ALSA too if it works with the others) I have used it since
ubuntu 12.04. The 3.8 kernels had problems with all USB cards. The one
thing I found was I needed to turn off the internal card in pulse and also
the wifi. The wifi gave me problems with all sound as it grabs too much
time once a minute when turned on and once every 5 seconds turned off
until rebooted with wifi turned off or unloading the wifi kernel module.
Then I could get jack to run with -p64 on my netbook. (I also turn cron
off BTW so that SW update stuff never tries to happen) As with all usb
cards... it has to have it's own USB port, not shared internally or
externally by a hub. I have to use only my right side USB plug and put
anything else in the left side. USB mice are pretty bad at generating
interupts. I use the rtirq script (lowlatency kernel) and set
/etc/default/rtirq line with RTIRQ_NAME_LIST like:
RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="usb3 rtc snd usb i8042"
Where my usb3 is the usb port on it's own irq (my right side plug). This
drops all the other usb ports to lower priority.
Of course the next question is... do you also use a USB midi card?
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
9:57 a.m.
Thanks for the replies.
ok, if it's not the problem of my headphone out but the settings of the
club, then it's all fine.
there were two mixers. Main console and small Yamaha in between. so it's
possible something went wrong...although it's still a mystery for me that
my signal didn't hit the peak on this yamaha mixer, with the max input gain
set.
maybe the mixer was broken?
thanks for the info on art dual tube card. it seems like a good choice if I
buy one anyway.
@Len,
one more question about this card, is it possible to have two stereo outs
while using a one microphone in?
now I'm not sure that I'll buy it for solve the output level problem, but I
probably want to integrate a microphone to use my voice to modulate some
signals.
and in that case, it must work the mono mic input and stereo outs
simultaneously.
one more thing is that I was using my old thinkpad on my live set I've
mentioned, and now I have brand new ideapad.
and I've noticed that ideapad headphone out is much softer than thinkpad,
when I use headphone to watch movies...etc.
so, it is not totally ignorable the output of each laptops. maybe I just go
ahead and buy this art card, in worst case it's not helping,
I can maybe use it as preamp. as it has inserts that can be used as preamp
direct output...as far as what I've understood on their signal diagram.
finally, nobody mentioned on mini-desktop compressor solution that I've
suggested..
http://www.thomann.de/pl/fmr_audio_rnc_1773.htm
somebody has things like that on their sets? do you think it can help?
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013, Djého Youn wrote:
thanks for all the answers.
Just in case... are you talking on stage volume or mains volume?
for those who gave advice with main mixer, 'sorry I wasn't that clear. but
> mixer's input gain was max. and it was only half on the meter. then
> boosting
> mixer's channel/master only made my sound horribly distorted.
When it is distorted, what does it sound like with headphones? You need to
know where the distortion is actually happening... are you turning your
computer to max and distorting in there? Are you using a DI box into the
mic input? (try it) Or going into a line in... A DI box is more in line
with the inputs of a cheaper mixer. Or an "instrument" input may work
better than line in.
this looks quite nice...as it's preamp AND soundcard...if soundcard
> doesn't
> make my signal louder, then I can use it as preamp..if I got it right.
> http://www.thomann.de/pl/art_usb_dual_tube_pre.htm
> does anyone used this with ubuntu
13.10 on modern laptops? a quick web
> search shows that it *can* work but have no drivers. 'seems that some
> people
> has troubles with it.
I have one and like it. It has been plug and play as it is USB1.1
compatible. It is 16bit at 44.1 or 48k or the s/pdif is 24bit (I use it as
a pre for the s/pdif in my Delta sound card too. It has it's own power
supply so the 5volt USB supply is not an issue. I like the sound better
than any of the builtin audio cards. It works fine with both pulse and
jack. (and ALSA too if it works with the others) I have used it since
ubuntu 12.04. The 3.8 kernels had problems with all USB cards. The one
thing I found was I needed to turn off the internal card in pulse and also
the wifi. The wifi gave me problems with all sound as it grabs too much
time once a minute when turned on and once every 5 seconds turned off until
rebooted with wifi turned off or unloading the wifi kernel module. Then I
could get jack to run with -p64 on my netbook. (I also turn cron off BTW so
that SW update stuff never tries to happen) As with all usb cards... it has
to have it's own USB port, not shared internally or externally by a hub. I
have to use only my right side USB plug and put anything else in the left
side. USB mice are pretty bad at generating interupts. I use the rtirq
script (lowlatency kernel) and set /etc/default/rtirq line with
RTIRQ_NAME_LIST like:
RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="usb3 rtc snd usb i8042"
Where my usb3 is the usb port on it's own irq (my right side plug). This
drops all the other usb ports to lower priority.
Of course the next question is... do you also use a USB midi card?
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
--
Jae Ho YOUN
http://jhyoun.wordpress.com/
http://jaehoyoun.com
10 a.m.
oh, btw,
@lens
I don't use usb midi card, but I use one usb HID device (a joystick) and
two usb midi controller.
so all my 3 usb ins on my laptop will be occupied in a way or another. but
I don't think it can be problem as joystick and controllers don't need to
be high priority?
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Djého Youn <ydjeho(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the replies.
ok, if it's not the problem of my headphone out but the settings of the
club, then it's all fine.
there were two mixers. Main console and small Yamaha in between. so it's
possible something went wrong...although it's still a mystery for me that
my signal didn't hit the peak on this yamaha mixer, with the max input gain
set.
maybe the mixer was broken?
thanks for the info on art dual tube card. it seems like a good choice if
I buy one anyway.
@Len,
one more question about this card, is it possible to have two stereo outs
while using a one microphone in?
now I'm not sure that I'll buy it for solve the output level problem, but
I probably want to integrate a microphone to use my voice to modulate some
signals.
and in that case, it must work the mono mic input and stereo outs
simultaneously.
one more thing is that I was using my old thinkpad on my live set I've
mentioned, and now I have brand new ideapad.
and I've noticed that ideapad headphone out is much softer than thinkpad,
when I use headphone to watch movies...etc.
so, it is not totally ignorable the output of each laptops. maybe I just
go ahead and buy this art card, in worst case it's not helping,
I can maybe use it as preamp. as it has inserts that can be used as preamp
direct output...as far as what I've understood on their signal diagram.
finally, nobody mentioned on mini-desktop compressor solution that I've
suggested..
http://www.thomann.de/pl/fmr_audio_rnc_1773.htm
somebody has things like that on their sets? do you think it can help?
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
--
Jae Ho YOUN
http://jhyoun.wordpress.com/
http://jaehoyoun.com
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013, Djého Youn wrote:
thanks for all the answers.
Just in case... are you talking on stage volume or mains volume?
for those who gave advice with main mixer, 'sorry I wasn't that clear.
> but
> mixer's input gain was max. and it was only half on the meter. then
> boosting
> mixer's channel/master only made my sound horribly distorted.
When it is distorted, what does it sound like with headphones? You need
to know where the distortion is actually happening... are you turning your
computer to max and distorting in there? Are you using a DI box into the
mic input? (try it) Or going into a line in... A DI box is more in line
with the inputs of a cheaper mixer. Or an "instrument" input may work
better than line in.
this looks quite nice...as it's preamp AND soundcard...if soundcard
> doesn't
> make my signal louder, then I can use it as preamp..if I got it right.
> http://www.thomann.de/pl/art_usb_dual_tube_pre.htm
> does anyone used this with ubuntu
13.10 on modern laptops? a quick web
> search shows that it *can* work but have no drivers. 'seems that some
> people
> has troubles with it.
I have one and like it. It has been plug and play as it is USB1.1
compatible. It is 16bit at 44.1 or 48k or the s/pdif is 24bit (I use it as
a pre for the s/pdif in my Delta sound card too. It has it's own power
supply so the 5volt USB supply is not an issue. I like the sound better
than any of the builtin audio cards. It works fine with both pulse and
jack. (and ALSA too if it works with the others) I have used it since
ubuntu 12.04. The 3.8 kernels had problems with all USB cards. The one
thing I found was I needed to turn off the internal card in pulse and also
the wifi. The wifi gave me problems with all sound as it grabs too much
time once a minute when turned on and once every 5 seconds turned off until
rebooted with wifi turned off or unloading the wifi kernel module. Then I
could get jack to run with -p64 on my netbook. (I also turn cron off BTW so
that SW update stuff never tries to happen) As with all usb cards... it has
to have it's own USB port, not shared internally or externally by a hub. I
have to use only my right side USB plug and put anything else in the left
side. USB mice are pretty bad at generating interupts. I use the rtirq
script (lowlatency kernel) and set /etc/default/rtirq line with
RTIRQ_NAME_LIST like:
RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="usb3 rtc snd usb i8042"
Where my usb3 is the usb port on it's own irq (my right side plug). This
drops all the other usb ports to lower priority.
Of course the next question is... do you also use a USB midi card?
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
--
Jae Ho YOUN
http://jhyoun.wordpress.com/
http://jaehoyoun.com
11:43 a.m.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 09:56:49AM +0100, Djého Youn wrote:
there were two mixers. Main console and small Yamaha
in between.
Which explains a lot. If the input gain on the main console
was set too high, it wouldn't be able to take a fulll level
signal form the Yamaha. If at the same time the faders on
the main console were too low (to compensate), the whole
system would start clipping even at low output levels.
And that confirms the following rule: if you give a non-
technical user N level controls in series, the probability
of having them set up correctly will be around exp(1 - N).
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
3:30 a.m.
On Wed, 2013-12-18 at 01:46 +0100, Robin Gareus wrote:
On 12/17/2013 11:43 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
A limiter perhaps was inserted, this would fit to the described issue,
limited level at full throttle and getting distortion.
It's unusual that the artists are allowed to use such equipment, usually
locations have an engineer handling the gear.
Everybody at least agrees that the OP doesn't need another sound card,
the issue isn't caused by the head phone output. Buying another sound
device is less useful, than reading some advices about audio
engineering? IMO Wikis are good enough to learn what is needed for most
audio engineering situations. Many Wikis are on a high standard.
And that confirms the following rule: if you give
a non-
technical user N level controls in series, the probability
of having them set up correctly will be around exp(1 - N).
This quote made my day! Thanks Fons.
10:41 a.m.
I'm sure others have mentioned this, but laptop headphone out is not
line level anything, it's a final, powered signal intended to play
through laptop or small external speakers.
I have a low-priced UCA-202 USB soundcard, 2 line in, 2 line outs.
Includes hardware monitoring and SPDIF output. Cost about $30 US several
years ago. It has a wider dynamic range than my laptop's built-in Intel
HD sound.
Another option would be too add a small preamp that has amp modelling in
it. That way you could get the gain boost you want, pick the "warm"
sound you want, and send the pro soundboard guys' their preferred
balanced XLR signal.
On 12/16/2013 06:21 AM, Djého Youn wrote:
Hello, list.
Last time I had a gig in a club where the sound system was really huge,
and I noticed that my signal wasn't loud enough.
I was using just headphone jack out from my laptop, and it hasn't been a
problem...I did plenty of gigs like that and it worked out pretty well.
but with this huge system, my max output didn't even hit the half of
level meter on the main mixer....as I'm obsessed with being loud, I was
ashamed and I need a solution.
I've been told that if I use a dedicated sound card, my output signal
can boost significantly.
is it true?
although it sounds like it makes sense, I doubt it a little bit because
I don't see any output pre-amps...etc. on the sound cards spec. (for
inputs, yes. but what matters for me is the level of output)
BUT if it's true,
what card you recommend to me?
my conditions are:
1. of course, my purpose is to boost my output signal, it has to satisfy
that first of all.
2. my budget is around 100-150 euro, but if needed, I can go a big higher.
3. I'm on Ubuntu 13.10, on lenovo ideapad Y500. I'm not the kind of guy
who can trouble shoot very well, hacking firmwares or whatever. so plug
and play, 'work out of box' kinda card will be great.
4. I do not have firewire port on my laptop, so it must be USB.
5. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've been told also that some
cards output more 'warmer' sounds. I want to prevent that. I want my
output LOUD but NOT warm.
so far, I found this:
http://www.thomann.de/pl/akai_eie_pro.htm
it looks like it will boost some signal. well, it 'looks' like. some of
you guys have this one? some reviews maybe?
also I've been told that the use of little table top compressor can
help, like this one:
http://www.thomann.de/pl/fmr_audio_rnc_1773.htm
if it's the case, maybe I won't need a soundcard. or do I need both? or
do you know some usb sound card that can combine the both??
thank you for all your thoughts and advices.
best,
jae
--
Jae Ho YOUN
http://jaehoyoun.com
http://advancedsituation.com/
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
1:44 p.m.
On Mon, 2013-12-16 at 23:41 -1000, david wrote:
I'm sure others have mentioned this, but laptop
headphone out is not
line level anything
We did and it doesn't matter, head phone output can be connected to a
mixing consoles input, the only real drawback is, that common consumer
head phone amps sound disgusting bad.
3790
days inactive
3792
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
27 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Clemens Ladisch -
david -
Djého Youn -
Fons Adriaensen -
Gene Heskett -
Joe Hartley -
Len Ovens -
Ralf Mardorf -
Robin Gareus -
Roger