14 Apr
2009
14 Apr
'09
11:31 a.m.
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a program
called SoundForge that had one very useful feature: normalizing audio levels
with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness Contour
For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on Linux,
without much success.
Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
Viktor
14 Apr
14 Apr
12:23 p.m.
Viktor Mastoridis a écrit :
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature: normalizing
audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness Contour
For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on Linux,
without much success.
Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
Viktor
you may have a look to:
- jamin, a full-featured program with GUI:
http://jamin.sourceforge.net/
- normalize, a simple batch with CLI [nomralize-audio, in debian]
http://normalize.nongnu.org/
.ben
1:06 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:23 AM, ben <brouits(a)free.fr> wrote:
Viktor Mastoridis a écrit :
AFAIK, neither of these programs normalize using RMS
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature: normalizing
audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness Contour
For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on Linux,
without much success.
Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
Viktor
you may have a look to:
- jamin, a full-featured program with GUI:
http://jamin.sourceforge.net/
- normalize, a simple batch with CLI [nomralize-audio, in debian]
http://normalize.nongnu.org/ 
1:28 p.m.
Viktor Mastoridis a écrit :
>> Hi Linux Audio Geeks
>>
>> In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
>> program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature: normalizing
>> audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness Contour
>>
>> For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on Linux,
>> without much success.
>>
>> Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
>>
>> Viktor
>>
The ReZound soundfile editor includes an Adaptive Normalize that "uses
an RMS level detector (defined by the window time) and adjusts the
amplitude inversely proportional to the signal level. As the level drops
the gain increases; as the level rises the gain decreases. There is also
a max gain limit so that silence does not get amplified by infinity
(when the maximum gain level is not being imposed). The formula is:
output = input*normalization level / current signal level
If Lock Channels is enabled the signal level will be calculated across
all selected channels which will preserve stereo phase."
But I'm not sure it's what you're looking for.
Best,
dp
4:05 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Viktor Mastoridis a écrit :
If you want to normalize amplitude, the rezound algorithm works just
fine, if you want to normalize loudness, then you want to use jamin,
or some other program that processes different frequency ranges
separately, since the human ear does not have a flat frequency
response, loudness is frequency dependent. In regards to measuring in
terms of RMS or not, someone else will have to address that.
>> Hi Linux Audio Geeks
>>
>> In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
>> program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature: normalizing
>> audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness Contour
>>
>> For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on Linux,
>> without much success.
>>
>> Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
>>
>> Viktor
>>
The ReZound soundfile editor includes an Adaptive Normalize that "uses
an RMS level detector (defined by the window time) and adjusts the
amplitude inversely proportional to the signal level. As the level drops
the gain increases; as the level rises the gain decreases. There is also
a max gain limit so that silence does not get amplified by infinity
(when the maximum gain level is not being imposed). The formula is:
output = input*normalization level / current signal level
If Lock Channels is enabled the signal level will be calculated across
all selected channels which will preserve stereo phase."
But I'm not sure it's what you're looking for.
Best,
dp
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15 Apr
15 Apr
11:22 a.m.
On Tue, 2009-04-14 at 11:05 -0700, Justin Smith wrote:
If you want to normalize amplitude, the rezound
algorithm works just
fine, if you want to normalize loudness, then you want to use jamin,
or some other program that processes different frequency ranges
separately, since the human ear does not have a flat frequency
response, loudness is frequency dependent. In regards to measuring in
terms of RMS or not, someone else will have to address that.
I wonder if this explains some commercial CDs recently that seem a bit
light on bass. Is it the case that the bass frequencies take up lots of
amplitude for not much impression of loudness so if you cut them you can
then raise the level of the mid-range that will then make the whole
thing seem louder?
Back to the original question, is the intention to try to make a track
you are working on louder, in which case a compression tool like jamin
would seem like the right approach, or is it to try to get commercially
mastered tracks to play in sequence at the same apparent loudness in
which case what is needed is a model to score tracks for their perceived
loudness so the louder sounding ones can have their amplitude reduced to
match the less loud?
Steve.
6:20 a.m.
Quoting Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com>om>:
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:23 AM, ben
<brouits(a)free.fr> wrote:
From what I can see in the README
(http://normalize.nongnu.org/README.html) normalize uses RMS, or at
least an implementation of it:
"The volumes calculated are RMS amplitudes, which correspond (roughly)
to perceived volume. Taking the RMS amplitude of an entire file would
not give us quite the measure we want, though, because a quiet song
punctuated by short loud parts would average out to a quiet song, and
the adjustment we would compute would make the loud parts excessively
loud."
Viktor Mastoridis a écrit :
AFAIK, neither of these programs normalize using RMS
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature: normalizing
audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness Contour
- normalize, a simple batch with CLI [nomralize-audio, in debian]
http://normalize.nongnu.org/ 
6:37 a.m.
2009/4/14 Viktor Mastoridis <viktor(a)mastoridis.co.uk>
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a program
called SoundForge that had one very useful feature: normalizing audio levels
with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness Contour
For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on Linux,
without much success.
Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
Viktor
Hi,
if the the goal is to have a sound file play as loud as possible I would use
Jamin, so you can take care about frequencies, if needed.
If you are going to normalize a telephone conversation maybe you don't need
such accuracy.
regards
-r
5:24 p.m.
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:37:29 +0200
Raffaele <raffaele.morelli(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/4/14 Viktor Mastoridis
<viktor(a)mastoridis.co.uk>
I don't really see how RMS can be that useful, at least not when you
try to get stuff as loud as possible. You still have to watch for peaks
because of clipping.
If your goal is to have songs or albums at the same loudness for
playback use replaygain. It's probably not perfect but the best thing I
know of. I think it uses something like RMS and something to adjust it
to the human hearing, but it also has an option to not clip the signal.
for more information check http://replaygain.org/ and
http://hydrogenaudio.org.
Best,
Philipp
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature:
normalizing audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness
Contour
For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on
Linux, without much success.
Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
Viktor
Hi,
if the the goal is to have a sound file play as loud as possible I
would use Jamin, so you can take care about frequencies, if needed.
If you are going to normalize a telephone conversation maybe you
don't need such accuracy.
regards
-r
6:47 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:24 PM, <hollunder(a)gmx.at> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:37:29 +0200
Raffaele <raffaele.morelli(a)gmail.com> wrote:
According to replaygain's website, they do a weighted filter to
compensate for unequal loudness perception, then use the calculated
RMS power to determine the appropriate gain for replay. So this looks
like it does exactly what the O.P. asked for.
2009/4/14 Viktor Mastoridis
<viktor(a)mastoridis.co.uk>
I don't really see how RMS can be that useful, at least not when you
try to get stuff as loud as possible. You still have to watch for peaks
because of clipping.
If your goal is to have songs or albums at the same loudness for
playback use replaygain. It's probably not perfect but the best thing I
know of. I think it uses something like RMS and something to adjust it
to the human hearing, but it also has an option to not clip the signal.
for more information check http://replaygain.org/ and
http://hydrogenaudio.org.
Best,
Philipp
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature:
normalizing audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness
Contour
For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on
Linux, without much success.
Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
Viktor
Hi,
if the the goal is to have a sound file play as loud as possible I
would use Jamin, so you can take care about frequencies, if needed.
If you are going to normalize a telephone conversation maybe you
don't need such accuracy.
regards
-r
16 Apr
16 Apr
6:59 a.m.
2009/4/15 <hollunder(a)gmx.at>
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:37:29 +0200
Raffaele <raffaele.morelli(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Frequencies compression (as peak one) allows you boost the overall volume of
your track which in turns increases its loudness <=> RMS.
Of course you must take care of peaks but meters (and ears) are your
friends.
http://jamin.sourceforge.net/en/loudness.html
regards
-r
2009/4/14 Viktor Mastoridis
<viktor(a)mastoridis.co.uk>
I don't really see how RMS can be that useful, at least not when you
try to get stuff as loud as possible. You still have to watch for peaks
because of clipping.
Hi Linux Audio Geeks
In my musical prehistory, while I was on Windows, I used to use a
program called SoundForge that had one very useful feature:
normalizing audio levels with RMS, even using the Equal Loudness
Contour
For a whole year I am struggling now to find something similar on
Linux, without much success.
Any help/hints will be much appreciated.
Viktor
Hi,
if the the goal is to have a sound file play as loud as possible I
would use Jamin, so you can take care about frequencies, if needed.
If you are going to normalize a telephone conversation maybe you
don't need such accuracy.
regards
-r
8:53 a.m.
Frequencies compression (as peak one) allows you boost the overall volume
of your track which in turns increases its loudness <=> RMS.
Of course you must take care of peaks but meters (and ears) are your
friends.
http://jamin.sourceforge.net/en/loudness.html
regards
-r
Thank you for remind me on this article Ron. It was one of the first that I
discovered when I started using Linux Audio. But hey, it took me a whole
year to figure out how all the different audio apps work here in Linux and
which ones are useful to me, so I lost sight of that one, I must admit. I
will take my time to study it a bit closer.
the one you are looking for is called wavegain
[1] http://www.rarewares.org/others.php#wavegain
Best regards,
Philipp
Thanks for this, Philip. I will certainly spend some time reading the
threads and getting to know wavegain.
Viktor
11:08 a.m.
2009/4/16 Viktor Mastoridis <viktor(a)mastoridis.co.uk>
You're welcome, but I am not Ron :-)
regards
-raffaele
Frequencies compression (as peak one) allows you
boost the overall volume
of your track which in turns increases its loudness <=> RMS.
Of course you must take care of peaks but meters (and ears) are your
friends.
http://jamin.sourceforge.net/en/loudness.html
regards
-r
Thank you for remind me on this article Ron. It was one of the first that
I
discovered when I started using Linux Audio. But hey, it took me a whole
year to figure out how all the different audio apps work here in Linux and
which ones are useful to me, so I lost sight of that one, I must admit. I
will take my time to study it a bit closer.
5694
days inactive
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days old
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12 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
ben -
Dave Phillips -
hollunder＠gmx.at -
Justin Smith -
Paul Davis -
Peder Hedlund -
Raffaele -
Steve Fosdick -
Viktor Mastoridis