3 Apr
2008
3 Apr
'08
2:07 a.m.
Is there a reference or HOWTO on how all of the various audio parts work together in
Linux? I've looked around, and most are horribly out of date, and don't cover it
all anyway.
My goal is to get everything I need on Linux to replace my Sonar 3.1 setup, and it looks
like the programs are available. I just can't get everything to work, and part of the
problem is that I don't understand Linux audio very well yet. I need to understand
how alsa relates to jackd, what is 'oss,' and why is that the only option
available in Audacity to me that works, and why when I run jackd, some of my other
programs no longer have a sound output available at all.
Any help, or pointers to the information, would be greatly appreciated.
3 Apr
3 Apr
6:36 a.m.
Hi!
A few of your questions are relatively simple to answer.
How does alsa relate to jack? Alsa is your soundcard driver. If you don't
have that (or alsa's predecessor OSS) then you won't have any sound at all.
JACK is a soundserver. It sits on top of alsa and offers a few more things in
software and it keeps watch so everything's in time. That's roughly spoken,
but it should suffice for the beginning. Why don't some of my programs have
any sound at all, when jack is running? As I said: JACK sits ontop of alsa. It
is just like any program, that uses alsa intensively. It blocks all your
soundcards ins and outs. Naturally, if you use pure alsa and start a
complicated sound-app, that has to use all your inputs and outputs, no other
program will have sound at that moment.
What is OSS (explicitly)? OSS is a soundcard driver (like alsa). Only in
practise really MOST of us don't use it anymore. There a re a few older
programs around, that only offer OSS-support. Luckily alsa can emulate OSS.
That means: alsa can act as if it was OSS. To get some more complex features
of OSS through alsa, you should install some library called: libaoss or
something like it. For simple playback and captre through /dev/dsp your
average alsa-installation will suffice.
I think there should be relatively up-to-date materials about jack and what
it is. If you know windows, jackd has a roughly similar job to windows'
rewire. Ithink jackd covers more ground in addition though.
Hope that helps for a start.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
8:50 a.m.
On Thursday 03 April 2008 06:07:51 Al Thompson wrote:
Is there a reference or HOWTO on how all of the
various audio parts work
together in Linux? I've looked around, and most are horribly out of date,
and don't cover it all anyway.
My goal is to get everything I need on Linux to replace my Sonar 3.1 setup,
and it looks like the programs are available. I just can't get everything
to work, and part of the problem is that I don't understand Linux audio
very well yet. I need to understand how alsa relates to jackd, what is
'oss,' and why is that the only option available in Audacity to me that
works, and why when I run jackd, some of my other programs no longer have a
sound output available at all.
Any help, or pointers to the information, would be greatly appreciated.
I'm also a relative newbie, and I can imagine what you're experiencing. I also
shouted out for a better (newbie) documentation....
Here some sites which may help you.
- http://www.linuxjournal.com/users/dave-phillips/track
- http://linux-sound.org/
- http://www.64studio.com/manual/audio
More advanced and difficult documentation or most of the time on the site of
the particular application.
Freewheeling has even some video tutorials!!!! That should be a example for
the other applications and there websites....
Good luck
Dirk
5 Apr
5 Apr
7:23 a.m.
On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 09:07:51PM -0700, Al Thompson wrote:
Is there a reference or HOWTO on how all of the
various audio parts work together in Linux? I've looked around, and most are horribly
out of date, and don't cover it all anyway.
My goal is to get everything I need on Linux to replace my Sonar 3.1 setup, and it looks
like the programs are available. I just can't get everything to work, and part of the
problem is that I don't understand Linux audio very well yet. I need to understand
how alsa relates to jackd, what is 'oss,' and why is that the only option
available in Audacity to me that works, and why when I run jackd, some of my other
programs no longer have a sound output available at all.
Any help, or pointers to the information, would be greatly appreciated.
Thinking back to when I set up my system, the biggest hassles and challenges were, in
order of difficulty and painfulness:
1) Getting the audio interface and supporting hardware to work (using ALSA and/or
FreeBoB)
2) Getting the realtime kernel built and running
3) Getting all the software all squared away and version-sync'ed.
4) Getting JACK set up (actually this part was really easy after the above)
Numbers (2) and (4) can be made much easier by using a music-oriented distro such as
64Studio, Musix, UbuntuStudio, etc. Number (1) can be made easier by making absolutely
sure that the hardware you buy is well-supported and that you choose it wisely (I
didn't, and had to do a lot of buying/selling of gear as a result). If you do all of
those, you should have things running very quickly and well.
Looking back, I started the process in December 2006 and had it pretty much completed by
MAY 2007. Yes, it took five months. I made lots of music while the system was still in
flux, though. I haven't changed much of anything since May 2007, and I remain
reluctant to do so. It's been rock-solid reliable and stable, for almost a year now,
so I just view it as a black box and use it to make music, as well as for almost all my
other computing needs too.
-ken
6:05 p.m.
Ken Restivo wrote:
On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 09:07:51PM -0700, Al Thompson
wrote:
I second the mention of 64Studio.
A very fine audio distro. Running here on Dell 470 Precision
Workstation, 2 x 3.0GHz Xeon processors, 3GB RAM, 2 x 10,0000rpm SCSI
drives under PERC/360 busmastering controller, nVidia Quadro graphics,
Audigy2 sound card.
Need I say...fast.
I run UbuntuStudio on my laptop and it's outstanding as well, and both
have outstanding themes that contribute to a pleasurable working
environment, though I probably squeezed more pure performance out of
Fedora Core 3.0 with CCRMA running Fluxbox as opposed to Gnome.
Frank
Is there a reference or HOWTO on how all of the
various audio parts work together in Linux? I've looked around, and most are horribly
out of date, and don't cover it all anyway.
My goal is to get everything I need on Linux to replace my Sonar 3.1 setup, and it looks
like the programs are available. I just can't get everything to work, and part of the
problem is that I don't understand Linux audio very well yet. I need to understand
how alsa relates to jackd, what is 'oss,' and why is that the only option
available in Audacity to me that works, and why when I run jackd, some of my other
programs no longer have a sound output available at all.
Any help, or pointers to the information, would be greatly appreciated.
Thinking back to when I set up my system, the biggest hassles and challenges were, in
order of difficulty and painfulness:
1) Getting the audio interface and supporting hardware to work (using ALSA and/or
FreeBoB)
2) Getting the realtime kernel built and running
3) Getting all the software all squared away and version-sync'ed.
4) Getting JACK set up (actually this part was really easy after the above)
Numbers (2) and (4) can be made much easier by using a music-oriented distro such as
64Studio, Musix, UbuntuStudio, etc. Number (1) can be made easier by making absolutely
sure that the hardware you buy is well-supported and that you choose it wisely (I
didn't, and had to do a lot of buying/selling of gear as a result). If you do all of
those, you should have things running very quickly and well.
Looking back, I started the process in December 2006 and had it pretty much completed by
MAY 2007. Yes, it took five months. I made lots of music while the system was still in
flux, though. I haven't changed much of anything since May 2007, and I remain
reluctant to do so. It's been rock-solid reliable and stable, for almost a year now,
so I just view it as a black box and use it to make music, as well as for almost all my
other computing needs too.
-ken
7 Apr
7 Apr
8:47 a.m.
Ken Restivo wrote:
On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 09:07:51PM -0700, Al Thompson
wrote:
Hi,
As one of the technically official maintainers of docs for Linux Audio
Users I have to agree with Ken about the above. However I have not been
a newbie for a while now and I would love to get feedback from people
about what needs to be added to the LAU guide to make it more user
friendly. We do have pretty good google and yahoo positioning. Haven't
spent much time on getting into the M$ search engine for obvious reasons.
I have asked several times and don't get much feedback on the LAU guide
per se. There's lots of feedback on other things tho...
Like Dave Phillips I want to make the site I run relevant. Please let me
know what could be done to improve the links and content.
Cheers.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd.
Is there a reference or HOWTO on how all of the
various audio parts work together in Linux? I've looked around, and most are horribly
out of date, and don't cover it all anyway.
My goal is to get everything I need on Linux to replace my Sonar 3.1 setup, and it looks
like the programs are available. I just can't get everything to work, and part of the
problem is that I don't understand Linux audio very well yet. I need to understand
how alsa relates to jackd, what is 'oss,' and why is that the only option
available in Audacity to me that works, and why when I run jackd, some of my other
programs no longer have a sound output available at all.
Any help, or pointers to the information, would be greatly appreciated.
Thinking back to when I set up my system, the biggest hassles and challenges were, in
order of difficulty and painfulness:
1) Getting the audio interface and supporting hardware to work (using ALSA and/or
FreeBoB)
2) Getting the realtime kernel built and running
3) Getting all the software all squared away and version-sync'ed.
4) Getting JACK set up (actually this part was really easy after the above)
Numbers (2) and (4) can be made much easier by using a music-oriented distro such as
64Studio, Musix, UbuntuStudio, etc. Number (1) can be made easier by making absolutely
sure that the hardware you buy is well-supported and that you choose it wisely (I
didn't, and had to do a lot of buying/selling of gear as a result). If you do all of
those, you should have things running very quickly and well.
Looking back, I started the process in December 2006 and had it pretty much completed by
MAY 2007. Yes, it took five months. I made lots of music while the system was still in
flux, though. I haven't changed much of anything since May 2007, and I remain
reluctant to do so. It's been rock-solid reliable and stable, for almost a year now,
so I just view it as a black box and use it to make music, as well as for almost all my
other computing needs too.
6:09 p.m.
Patrick Shirkey:
I have asked several times and don't get much
feedback on the LAU
guide per se. There's lots of feedback on other things tho...
Like Dave Phillips I want to make the site I run relevant. Please
let me know what could be done to improve the links and content.
Hey, it wouldn't hurt to mention the url :) Is it the one on
http://lau.linuxaudio.org/ ?
First of all: The effort to maintain a site like lau guide must be
huge. Keeping it up to date and correct at all times is probably
worth at least one fully paid full-time position. Is it worth the
unpaid, part-time effort? I think so. When I got in touch with linux
audio Dave's site was invaluable, in spite of the rare voids and
dated parts.
People who do this should get hired by a distribution vendor. In
addition to being worshipped.
The following are a bunch of loose observations from a mixed
seasoned/new user's perspective:
"Introduction for newbies" section: I think it's a good section. But
it sucks for audio newbies. Suggesting to read kernel docs "Before
you start" won't fly, in my opinion.
Also almost every aspect of linux audio can be explored from gui-land.
So the section's focus on basic cli stuff is ok too. But, again, not
for audio newbies.
I think I can see what you're trying to get at: Present the cultural
difference and hint at the power of linux/gnu systems. Which is what
attracted me when I started to use this beast.
But the times have changed and today, it seems, there are floods of
new users coming in who are interested in a totally different set of
topics and related learning curves. Like, actually making music.
The debate "Dip them in the dirt to make them strong" vs. "Help them
avoid the puddle": it's decided where I live. Why is having VST
support in linux a Good Thing? Because it makes it easy for people to
come over. In due time they'll learn what's under the hood anyway.
On the link section "Installation/Setup":
"The JACK user HOWTO"'s first link ("diagram") is dead. The next
("Visit the online ALSA docs") seems to be out of context. Range of
sound drivers is out of date ("currently only ALSA") And again, I'd
rather focus on gui (mention qjackctl at the top) and append the cli
detail.
The "Low-Latency HOWTO" from that section reads like a trip back in
time. I'm tempted to say "The Introduction part is way too
prominent". ext2 for /? No audio apps on /?? Record audio to another
ide channel??? None of this is actually solid advice. Was it ever?
The non-APIC part is way too prominent. The kernel 2.4 part (I
actually looked twice to make sure it's for real :) is way too
prominent. While useful and glorious in their days now these should
really file under "Historical".
Related: The "Realtime Low Latency Wiki" is actually a "Real-Time
Linux Wiki" with not much audio on its mind. From my experience the
only thing you need for low-latency audio performance in 2008 is a
contemporary distribution. Plus 3 darn lines in limits.conf. Will
they ever get that right :?
On "Useful Information": "The Linux Audio Quality HOWTO" is a dead
link. I don't have permission to access "The LAU FAQ", "The Sound
HOWTO", which I didn't bother to read, dates from 1999. "The Linux
Sound Playing HOWTO" is from 1998.
If I were a OS convert and new to linux audio I'd probably be
scratching my head even more after browsing lau guide. Where's the
appeal? Where is the State of the Art? Where is the music?
Maybe a little refactoring would be in order? An explicit "Beginners"
section, explicit "Advanced" section. Focus on the beginners (I
assume they are the main audience of lau guide?). Get rid of ancient
stuff, it's somewhat embarrassing as there is so much great stuff
coming along _now_.
Feedback, you asked for it :) Be good, Wolfgang
7:37 p.m.
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Hi,
As one of the technically official maintainers of docs for Linux Audio
Users I have to agree with Ken about the above. However I have not been
a newbie for a while now and I would love to get feedback from people
about what needs to be added to the LAU guide to make it more user
friendly. We do have pretty good google and yahoo positioning. Haven't
spent much time on getting into the M$ search engine for obvious reasons.
I have asked several times and don't get much feedback on the LAU guide
per se. There's lots of feedback on other things tho...
Like Dave Phillips I want to make the site I run relevant. Please let me
know what could be done to improve the links and content.
Cheers.
Something I've noticed is the lack of tutorials and info on how to
actually use the apps to make music - there's lots about the low level
nuts and bolts of just getting it installed and working, but after that
you are on your own. This means not only the mechanics of using the
apps, but also addressing musical and sound issues. If I could give
examples where I have struggled , using Ardour and Jamin effectively to
get a good sound and master has been difficult, and I have not found
much guidance on this beyond the basic Ardour tutorials.
When it comes to music, it does seem that those who know the most tend
to say the least, as opposed to the vocal, ignorant and opinionated
types who clog up the internet with junk. I've found Dave Philips'
articles a helpful exception to this.
More specific comments :
- I found it not obvious where to find your guides page - the link on
the portal just says "Linux Audio Users", which does not give much clue
as to what the page actually is.
- I really wish (not just for you, but for all pages giving links) that
you put a date next to each link - not so much for links to active
websites, but where you link to a specific article or guide, it would
save so much time if I could see that the article dates back many years
and not waste time with it (for instance the Linux sound playing HOWTO
is from 1998). Also I think that Agnula is not really a useful link any
more (and the link seems to be dead anyway).
Thanks for your work, hope this helps.
Fritz
8 Apr
8 Apr
8:57 a.m.
Fritz Meissner wrote:
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I just discovered today the 'portal' link on the linuxaudio.org....
Maybe it is a language issue, but I didn't expect to find usefull thing
behind that!?!??
http://portal.linuxaudio.org/
I'm afraid I'm not the only one....
So I think it would be good to think about the 'portal' issue and the
whole lay-out of the site itself...
(As I mentioned in a other topic... a forum on the site or a link to a
forum would be good in my opinion...)
Regards,
Dirk
Hi,
As one of the technically official maintainers of docs for Linux Audio
Users I have to agree with Ken about the above. However I have not been
a newbie for a while now and I would love to get feedback from people
about what needs to be added to the LAU guide to make it more user
friendly. We do have pretty good google and yahoo positioning. Haven't
spent much time on getting into the M$ search engine for obvious reasons.
I have asked several times and don't get much feedback on the LAU guide
per se. There's lots of feedback on other things tho...
Like Dave Phillips I want to make the site I run relevant. Please let me
know what could be done to improve the links and content.
Cheers.
10:11 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:57 AM, schoappied <schoappied(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I just discovered today the 'portal' link on
the linuxaudio.org....
Maybe it is a language issue, but I didn't expect to find usefull thing
behind that!?!??
http://portal.linuxaudio.org/
I'm afraid I'm not the only one....
I doubt that "portal" has a definite enough meaning to be
understood the same by everyone. I'd suggest labeling
the links to that page more simply: perhaps something like
"useful links".
--
joq
10:20 a.m.
Jack O'Quin wrote:
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:57 AM, schoappied
<schoappied(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I think it would be more better to have the links direct on the homepage...
I just discovered today the 'portal'
link on the linuxaudio.org....
Maybe it is a language issue, but I didn't expect to find usefull thing
behind that!?!??
http://portal.linuxaudio.org/
I'm afraid I'm not the only one....
I doubt that "portal" has a definite enough meaning to be
understood the same by everyone. I'd suggest labeling
the links to that page more simply: perhaps something like
"useful links".
10 Apr
10 Apr
7:26 a.m.
New subject: linuxaudio.org (was reference or howto)
schoappied wrote:
Jack O'Quin wrote:
Suggestion: change portal on linuxaudio.org to *'community and support'.
*Portal is really vague I think....
*
*regards,
Dirk
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:57 AM, schoappied
<schoappied(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I think it would be more better to have the links direct on the homepage...
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
I just discovered today the 'portal'
link on the linuxaudio.org....
Maybe it is a language issue, but I didn't expect to find usefull thing
behind that!?!??
http://portal.linuxaudio.org/
I'm afraid I'm not the only one....
I doubt that "portal" has a definite enough meaning to be
understood the same by everyone. I'd suggest labeling
the links to that page more simply: perhaps something like
"useful links".
6073
days inactive
6080
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
11 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Al Thompson -
frank -
Fritz Meissner -
Jack O'Quin -
Julien Claassen -
Ken Restivo -
Patrick Shirkey -
schoappied -
Wolfgang Woehl