4 Aug
2008
4 Aug
'08
5:10 p.m.
Hi,
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use this
emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?
Thanks,
4 Aug
4 Aug
5:17 p.m.
On 2008-08-04T21:10:19, rosea grammostola wrote:
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7
and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?
F7 F A C Eb
Fmaj7 F A C E
Not sure how to address the 2nd part of your question.
/Allan
--
Allan Wind
Life Integrity, LLC
http://lifeintegrity.com
5:18 p.m.
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 21:10, rosea grammostola <rosea.grammostola(a)gmail.com
wrote:
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?
F7 is a Dominant 7 chord with a major 3rd and minor 7th, while Fmaj7 is
Major 7 chord with a major 3rd and major 7th:
http://en.dahnielson.com/2007/03/jazz-notes.html/3/#toc-quality
--
Anders Dahnielson
<anders(a)dahnielson.com>
5:22 p.m.
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM, rosea grammostola
<rosea.grammostola(a)gmail.com> wrote:
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and
I try to use this
emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?
Fmaj7 chord has 1 3 5 7
Fmin7 chord has 1 b3 5 b7
F7 (dominant 7th) chord has 1 3 5 b7
-- Brett
------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden;
If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
5:34 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
Brett McCoy wrote:
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM, rosea grammostola
<rosea.grammostola(a)gmail.com> wrote:
...and since this was a pretty basic question let me focus on just one
difference between the two chords: the half-step between the dominant 7
and the major 7.
The word major in that chord's name indicates that the seventh note in
the scale is raised a half-step over the same chord without that
designation in the name. Same applies with a Major 9th chord - the
seventh is again a half-step higher than in a plain 9th
Frank
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago
and I try to use this
emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?
Fmaj7 chord has 1 3 5 7
Fmin7 chord has 1 b3 5 b7
F7 (dominant 7th) chord has 1 3 5 b7
-- Brett -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iEYEARECAAYFAkiXWckACgkQhIzUKCTXcU2CcgCeLIuN+3VGKrVOXDphYFui/snF
V5oAoKmuIYDlXSCtu9b2M02JNuYPf4hy
=8oG5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
5:42 p.m.
-- Brett
...and since this was a pretty basic question let me focus on just one
difference between the two chords: the half-step between the dominant 7
and the major 7.
The word major in that chord's name indicates that the seventh note in
the scale is raised a half-step over the same chord without that
designation in the name. Same applies with a Major 9th chord - the
seventh is again a half-step higher than in a plain 9th
Frank
Thanks! I guess this is why I posted this question on this list :) 
5 Aug
5 Aug
4:13 a.m.
New subject: Keychord/Chordfind (was Re: Difference F7 and Fmaj)
Quoting rosea grammostola <rosea.grammostola(a)gmail.com>om>:
*me = walking back to his 'piano' to hit some keys...
These are two excelent sites to show you chords on piano and guitar
respectively:
http://keychord.com/ and http://chordfind.com/
-- Brett
...and since this was a pretty basic
question let me focus on just one
difference between the two chords: the half-step between the dominant 7
and the major 7.
The word major in that chord's name indicates that the seventh note in
the scale is raised a half-step over the same chord without that
designation in the name. Same applies with a Major 9th chord - the
seventh is again a half-step higher than in a plain 9th
Frank
Thanks! I guess this is why I posted this question on this list :) 
4 Aug
4 Aug
6:18 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-08-04 at 21:10 +0200, rosea grammostola wrote:
Hi,
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use
this emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life
is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what
is that difference theoretical spoken?
F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)
Jeremiah
Thanks,
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
6:47 p.m.
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Jeremiah Benham
<jjbenham(a)chicagoguitar.com>wrote;wrote:
On Mon, 2008-08-04 at 21:10 +0200, rosea grammostola
wrote:
do you
play the 6 on the keys?
Hi,
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use
this emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life
is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what
is that difference theoretical spoken?
F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)
And how do you play it on piano? For example F6? F A C Des, how and where 
9 p.m.
On 04/08/08 21:47:06, rosea grammostola wrote:
> F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
> Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)
>
> And how do you play it on piano? For example F6? F A C Des, how
> and where do you play the 6 on the keys?
The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.
Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.
Steve.
5 Aug
5 Aug
6:17 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Steve Fosdick
<lists(a)pelvoux.nildram.co.uk>wrote;wrote:
On 04/08/08 21:47:06, rosea grammostola wrote:
semitone)... but that seems not the case for F6, keychor.com says F6 = F A C
D!... how come??
> F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
> Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)
>
> And how do you play it on piano? For example F6? F A C Des, how
> and where do you play the 6 on the keys?
The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.
Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.
But there is no Fmaj6? If I got you right F6 is F A C and bD (flanttened a
9:53 a.m.
rosea grammostola wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Steve Fosdick
<lists(a)pelvoux.nildram.co.uk <mailto:lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk>> wrote:
The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.
Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the
scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the
notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for
Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.
But there is no Fmaj6? If I got you right F6 is F A C and bD
(flanttened a semitone)... but that seems not the case for F6,
keychor.com <http://keychor.com> says F6 = F A C D!... how come??
Fmaj7 is
the diatonic I7 chord in the key of F (F A C E).
F7 is the diatonic V7 chord in the key of Bb (F A C Eb).
F6 (F A C D) is an added-note chord, it's the I chord in the key of F,
and it can be used as a direct substitution for Fmaj7. Note that it is
also an inversion of the Dm7 chord, the diatonic 7th chord on the 6th
degree of the F major scale.
You should pick up and read completely a standard text on harmony. I
went through the harmony books by Walter Piston, Roger Sessions, and
Arnold Schoenberg, but others here may recommend different texts. Which
text you use doesn't matter so much, as long as you acquire a systematic
understanding of the subject.
Best,
dp
10:20 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 07:53:41AM -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
You should pick up and read completely a standard text
on harmony.
Seconded. But note that the way harmony is treated in the classical
music and in the jazz traditions is not exactly the same. Not only
the terminology and notation are different, but also some basic
concepts. It can be very confusing to do both at the same time.
Also, going through the history of classical music, it's clear
that "harmony" is a moving target.
I went through the harmony books by Walter Piston,
Roger Sessions, and
Arnold Schoenberg, but others here may recommend different texts. Which
text you use doesn't matter so much, as long as you acquire a systematic
understanding of the subject.
Paul Hindemith, "Traditional Harmony" is one, there are
many others.
Ciao,
--
FA
Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica
Parma, Italia
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
11:19 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 14:03, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 07:53:41AM -0400, Dave
Phillips wrote:
Also, "Tonal Harmony" by Stefan Kostka and Dorothy Payne appears to be
highly regarded by many (it's on my to-read list).
--
Anders Dahnielson
<anders(a)dahnielson.com>
You should pick up and read completely a standard
text on harmony.
Seconded. But note that the way harmony is treated in the classical
music and in the jazz traditions is not exactly the same. Not only
the terminology and notation are different, but also some basic
concepts. It can be very confusing to do both at the same time.
Also, going through the history of classical music, it's clear
that "harmony" is a moving target.
I went through the harmony books by Walter
Piston, Roger Sessions, and
Arnold Schoenberg, but others here may recommend different texts. Which
text you use doesn't matter so much, as long as you acquire a systematic
understanding of the subject.
Paul Hindemith, "Traditional Harmony" is one, there are
many others.
11:28 a.m.
Fons Adriaensen wrote:
... note that the way harmony is treated in the
classical
music and in the jazz traditions is not exactly the same. Not only
the terminology and notation are different, but also some basic
concepts. It can be very confusing to do both at the same time.
Also, going through the history of classical music, it's clear
that "harmony" is a moving target.
Yes, I realized after I sent that message that I should have mentioned
the difference between jazz harmony texts and the more "classical" tomes.
More modern texts (Persichetti's book is a good example) present the
notions of non-functional 7ths, melodic chording, clusters, chords by
4ths, etc. Serial harmony is a whole other domain, and Elliott Carter's
harmony book is yet another way of comprehending the possibilities of
non-serial chromaticism (see also the theoretical writings by Stefan Wolpe).
The traditional approaches still apply, especially since the vast
majority of music we hear is tonal/modal, with more or less clear
harmonic functions and relationships. From my POV, most jazz harmony
works on the same bases as traditional tonal harmony, but some truly new
devices have been introduced that the classical texts do little to
clarify. Indeed, harmony is a moving target, but its traditional basics
are still fundamental to most of the music we hear today.
Best,
dp
4:19 p.m.
Dave Phillips wrote:
Yes, I realized after I sent that message that I should have mentioned
the difference between jazz harmony texts and the more "classical" tomes.
More modern texts (Persichetti's book is a good example) present the
notions of non-functional 7ths, melodic chording, clusters, chords by
4ths, etc. Serial harmony is a whole other domain, and Elliott Carter's
harmony book is yet another way of comprehending the possibilities of
non-serial chromaticism (see also the theoretical writings by Stefan Wolpe).
The traditional approaches still apply, especially since the vast
majority of music we hear is tonal/modal, with more or less clear
harmonic functions and relationships. From my POV, most jazz harmony
works on the same bases as traditional tonal harmony, but some truly new
devices have been introduced that the classical texts do little to
clarify. Indeed, harmony is a moving target, but its traditional basics
are still fundamental to most of the music we hear today.
The books that you and others suggest are those reading books or books
with pieces of music with theory? What is preferred?
6 Aug
6 Aug
4:45 a.m.
Dave Phillips wrote:
rosea grammostola wrote:
Yup. The only difference between a C2 chord and a C9 chord is the
interval between the C and the D ... which is what makes it sound
different! And an E2 chord can also be a B4 chord ...
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Steve Fosdick
<lists(a)pelvoux.nildram.co.uk <mailto:lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk>> wrote:
The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.
Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the
scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the
notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for
Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.
But there is no Fmaj6? If I got you right F6 is F A C and bD
(flanttened a semitone)... but that seems not the case for F6,
keychor.com <http://keychor.com> says F6 = F A C D!... how come??
Fmaj7 is
the diatonic I7 chord in the key of F (F A C E).
F7 is the diatonic V7 chord in the key of Bb (F A C Eb).
F6 (F A C D) is an added-note chord, it's the I chord in the key of F,
and it can be used as a direct substitution for Fmaj7. Note that it is
also an inversion of the Dm7 chord, the diatonic 7th chord on the 6th
degree of the F major scale. 
7:53 p.m.
rosea, you might take a look at:
http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-chord-progressions.html
there is other good stuff elsewhere on this site.
also:
http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html
best wishes, G.
5956
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
17 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Allan Wind -
Anders Dahnielson -
Brett McCoy -
Dave Phillips -
david -
Fons Adriaensen -
frank pirrone -
garryo -
Grammostola Rosea -
Jeremiah Benham -
peder＠musikhuset.org -
rosea grammostola
-
Steve Fosdick