19 Jun
2005
19 Jun
'05
3:20 p.m.
Dave Phillips:
Greetings:
The subject says it all.
My own "Linux audio sucks" hobbyhorse:
No way to recall a complex configuration of apps and plugins with
all settings intact. If I use a complicated setup with multiple synths
and plugins I have no way to recall these applications to their previous
settings. LASH/LADCCA was supposed to address this situation but I don't
know where that project stands at this point.
And your favorite is... ?
Right now: artsd and flashplayer
artsd because it currently on the machine I'm working with right now
continouisly tries to start. When I kill it, it starts again, for
mysterious reasons, only seconds later. Sometimes, it is even owned by
root, and I have to kill it as root. Even that doesnt help, it starts
again and again and again.
flashplayer because it lives inside a browser and should not have been
allowed to occupy the soundcard. Sometimes, the only way to get sound (in
proper programs, like jack), is to exit the browser.
The first one is because of some crazy bug or design or whatever. The
second one can probably be fixed somehow. However, it probably all goes
down to the current long discussion about finding a common sound-server
thing, which is definitely needed. I don't understand what happens with
this crazy artsd-madness-program, and I think I'm some kind of power-user.
Linux audio sucks because of this, right now, for me. esound, artsd,
polyaudio, jackd; theire all the wrong solution for this problem. The
correct solution is that alsa needs to be redesigned so that it can switch
from direct hardware access (hw:0, 1, etc.) to dmix or jackplug and back
again on the fly without the user noticing it. The second thing that needs
to be done is to remove artsd from all linux audio machines around the
world so that noone ever will have crazy problems with it again. At least,
I wont to get rid of it on the machine I'm currently working on.
Unfortunately, I'm not the administrator of it, so I can't do that.
(No, I don't want any help in fixing the artsd-thing, right now I just
want to hate it)
19 Jun
19 Jun
3:59 p.m.
artsd because it currently on the machine I'm
working with
right now continouisly tries to start. When I kill it, it
starts again, for mysterious reasons, only seconds later.
Sometimes, it is even owned by root, and I have to kill it
as root. Even that doesnt help, it starts again and again
and again.
did you check the KDE control center to disable arts?
flashplayer because it lives inside a browser and
should
not have been allowed to occupy the soundcard. Sometimes,
the only way to get sound (in proper programs, like jack),
is to exit the browser.
I guess this is not a problem of the flash plugin itself but
the browser itself. The plugin tells the browser to output
sound, and your browser catches the audio device.
[...]
(No, I don't want any help in fixing the
artsd-thing, right
now I just want to hate it)
We're working hard to make things better :) .
Best regards
ce
6:06 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
are you sure? I noticed that even if you set mozilla to use arts or
esd some plugins (flash) try to open the /dev/dsp (and mozilla freezes).
erik
artsd because
it currently on the machine I'm working with
right now continouisly tries to start. When I kill it, it
starts again, for mysterious reasons, only seconds later.
Sometimes, it is even owned by root, and I have to kill it
as root. Even that doesnt help, it starts again and again
and again.
did you check the KDE control center to disable arts?
flashplayer because it lives inside a browser and
should
not have been allowed to occupy the soundcard. Sometimes,
the only way to get sound (in proper programs, like jack),
is to exit the browser.
I guess this is not a problem of the flash plugin itself but
the browser itself. The plugin tells the browser to output
sound, and your browser catches the audio device. 
6:15 p.m.
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 13:06 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote:
are you sure? I noticed that even if you set
mozilla to use arts
or
esd some plugins (flash) try to open the /dev/dsp (and mozilla
freezes).
Until flashplayer is replaced with an open source alternative, it's
going to suck. If you want to help, there's a project underway to
create a GPLed Flash implementation.
Lee
6:44 p.m.
are you sure?
No. I guessed.
I noticed that even if you set mozilla to use
arts or esd some plugins (flash) try to open the /dev/dsp
(and mozilla freezes).
I still cannot believe that the plugin itself is responsible
to drive the underlaying system itself, but maybe you're
right.
Best regards
ce
4:02 p.m.
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 19:20 +0200, Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen wrote:
artsd because it currently on the machine I'm
working with right now
continouisly tries to start. When I kill it, it starts again, for
mysterious reasons, only seconds later. Sometimes, it is even owned by
root, and I have to kill it as root. Even that doesnt help, it starts
again and again and again.
This is a KDE problem. I have found that if you don't use KDE,
launching some KDE apps (like kmix) will cause 5 or 6 stupid KDE daemons
to be started, which don't die when you exit the program, and have to be
killed manually.
KDE just seems to be terminally bloated due to excessive OO-ness.
Lee
6:16 p.m.
Lee Revell wrote:
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 19:20 +0200, Kjetil Svalastog
Matheussen wrote:
? what does that have with OO?
in this particular case kde is trying to fix the problem that should
never have existed in the first place and since the user daemon for a
particular desktop is not a proper place to fix it it fails miserably.
the point is that user has pretty much no control over which app is
going to access audio so the audio system has to allow access from
multiple programs.
and yes, latest development (dmix) goes in that direction but it's
not there yet... (i.e. not automagically working in all major distros)
(note that this is not a defense of kde, I'm not big fan of either
kde or gnome)
erik
artsd because it currently on the machine I'm
working with right now
continouisly tries to start. When I kill it, it starts again, for
mysterious reasons, only seconds later. Sometimes, it is even owned by
root, and I have to kill it as root. Even that doesnt help, it starts
again and again and again.
This is a KDE problem. I have found that if you don't use KDE,
launching some KDE apps (like kmix) will cause 5 or 6 stupid KDE daemons
to be started, which don't die when you exit the program, and have to be
killed manually.
KDE just seems to be terminally bloated due to excessive OO-ness.
7:19 p.m.
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 13:16 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote:
That's why I said "seems", I haven't looked closely. But historically
bloat and excessive OO-ness have gone hand in hand. I don't want this
to turn into a C vs C++ thread, besides the most bloated program on my
desktop (Evolution) is written in C, using an object oriented design.
KDE just seems
to be terminally bloated due to excessive OO-ness.
? what does that have with OO?
and yes, latest development (dmix) goes in that
direction but it's
not there yet... (i.e. not automagically working in all major distros)
This could have been working everywhere a year ago if the distros had
pushed for it at all. dmix was presented at *last year's* LAC for
crying out loud, but not even SuSE pushed for it until a few months ago.
It would have given them a big advantage over other distros too. Maybe
they all just had bigger fish to fry.
Lee
8 p.m.
On Sunday 19 June 2005 20:05, Lee Revell wrote:
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 19:20 +0200, Kjetil Svalastog
Matheussen wrote:
Yeah, but the piece of software we are talking about (aRts) is written in
plain C...
And if you tell KDE not to start aRts even knotify respects that (since 3.3).
But if you start an aRts-application you don't have to wonder...
Arnold
--
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the
Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
-- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
artsd because it currently on the machine I'm
working with right now
continouisly tries to start. When I kill it, it starts again, for
mysterious reasons, only seconds later. Sometimes, it is even owned by
root, and I have to kill it as root. Even that doesnt help, it starts
again and again and again.
KDE just seems to be terminally bloated due to
excessive OO-ness.
7099
days inactive
7099
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Arnold Krille -
Christoph Eckert -
Erik Steffl -
Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen <k.s.matheussen＠notam02.no> -
Lee Revell