1 Sep
2012
1 Sep
'12
3:10 a.m.
On Sat, September 1, 2012 1:27 am, Paul Davis wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, rosea.grammostola
<
rosea.grammostola(a)gmail.com> wrote:
That's why it is time for the full scale of the Linux Audio community to
be effectively realised. I'm not talking about the people active on this
list. There is an absolutely massive installation base across the planet
of people who use Linux Audio tools but only a tiny fraction of them are
actually making the effort to directly contribute.
We should be able to make an educated guess as to how many people are
really using the tools we make based on the number of downloads of the
actual software, the number of installs of OS's that are running the
software and a general hands up accounting process.
Figuring out where to start counting when there is so much to get through
is the hard part.
For example people who use firefox or chrome would be a good start. They
are most likely the ones who will also be using Linux Audio Tools.
Another example, Behringer ships Audacity with every single product they
sell. Clearly the global market leader for audio production hardware sees
some value in open source too. We can get an idea of their market base by
looking at their end of year or quarterly financial reports.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On 08/31/2012 04:56 PM, Nils wrote:
NI already have inhouse versions of many of their software tools for
Linux,
and they use it in house for some development. I met with them in person
several years ago when I was teaching in Berlin. They are quite big
technical fans of JACK and of Linux, but they (probably correctly) see a
tiny, largely irrelevant market for native releases for these platforms.
They spent quite a bit of effort to get their standalone versions on OS X
to talk to JACK if it is installed, but chose not to document this because
hardly anyone wants it and when they do, they figure it out for
themselves.
A lot of people (even on this list) don't understand the extent to which
*supporting* a piece of software is often a far bigger cost than the
initial development, and providing support for a platform with very few
users is an issue for companies who want their customer service reputation
to be very good (as NI does). It doesn't work for companies like this to
just release something "into the wild" and forget about it.
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:43:13 +0100
Harry van Haaren<harryhaaren(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Nils<list(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
Maybe an email from linuxaudio.org works better? Someone who speaks in
name of an organization?
The direct and naive solution would be a reversed engineered kontakt
> sample engine, yes.
> Very naive.
>
>
The community could approach NI and ask if they're intrested in
supporting
a Linux version of Kontact? I volunteer to write the email, and if
they
laugh then what harm done...
Opinions?
Regardless if it was done or in the past or not It would be very nice
of
you to write an email to them.
1 Sep
1 Sep
3:59 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 11:10 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Another example, Behringer ships Audacity with every
single product
they sell. Clearly the global market leader for audio production
hardware sees some value in open source too. We can get an idea of
their market base by looking at their end of year or quarterly
financial reports.
From Behringer I own a Modulizer Pro, ADA 8000 and an
Eurorack UB2442FX.
I never noticed even a hint to Audacity by a slip of paper. I
don't
claim that there isn't such a hint, but I never noticed it. You
shouldn't expect that customers take care about all the slip of paper,
stickers, advertising brochures etc., that ship with a Behringer
product. I don't think that I'm the only one thinking that those things
are waste. Who does put on a Behringer sticker on something? Even if
some people should notice that there is a hint to Audacity, that doesn't
mean that they attach more value to it, than to a sticker.
2 Cents,
Ralf
4:18 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 11:58 am, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 11:10 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
It's called extrapolation. In the marketing industry these are the metrics
that get people interested. We don't have to go as far as most marketing
companies and "massage" the results in our favour (lie). All we have to do
is extrapolate the best guess of what the numbers are and provide the info
for everyone else to make their own educated decision.
Given that we have so many metrics to work with now there is absolutely no
reason we can't provide a very strong case for global adoption potential
that should get the attention of any serious marketing and sales rep and
rebalance the discussion in our favour for projects like this one.
NI may be wary of providing a Linux version because they think there is
not a big enough market but if the numbers show that there are several
million people globally who use Linux Audio Tools they might reconsider.
Also because Linux tools are considered to be high end and challenging
that can be made to work in our favour too. The Music Group own both
Behringer and Midas covering completely different ends of the market. If
they are happy to ship open source tools why wouldn't a company like NI be
interested in making their products available to the same userbase?
The only thing stopping them is the perception that the Linux Audio user
base is a small global market.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Another example, Behringer ships Audacity with
every single product
they sell. Clearly the global market leader for audio production
hardware sees some value in open source too. We can get an idea of
their market base by looking at their end of year or quarterly
financial reports.
From Behringer I own a Modulizer Pro, ADA 8000 and an Eurorack UB2442FX.
I never noticed even a hint to Audacity by a slip of paper. I don't
claim that there isn't such a hint, but I never noticed it. You
shouldn't expect that customers take care about all the slip of paper,
stickers, advertising brochures etc., that ship with a Behringer
product. I don't think that I'm the only one thinking that those things
are waste. Who does put on a Behringer sticker on something? Even if
some people should notice that there is a hint to Audacity, that doesn't
mean that they attach more value to it, than to a sticker.
4:53 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 12:18 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Sat, September 1, 2012 11:58 am, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
In Germany you need to win more professional engineers using Linux, then
automatically all the other people pay more attention to Linux. If you
can't win more professionals, then all the others won't pay attention
too.
Talk to
http://www.studio-presse.de/2.0.html
http://www.tonmeister.de/index.php?p=impressum
too. They don't ignore Linux, but it's no that important for most of
them. Make famous engineers and musicians saying "I'm using Linux",
that's how market works. Customer acquisition is a full time job.
I've seen how a former friend started and today is one of the market
leaders for professional studio microphones. He isn't a penguin, he's a
shark. Most of us are penguins :).
Regards,
Ralf
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 11:10 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
It's called extrapolation. In the marketing industry these are the metrics
that get people interested. We don't have to go as far as most marketing
companies and "massage" the results in our favour (lie). All we have to do
is extrapolate the best guess of what the numbers are and provide the info
for everyone else to make their own educated decision.
Given that we have so many metrics to work with now there is absolutely no
reason we can't provide a very strong case for global adoption potential
that should get the attention of any serious marketing and sales rep and
rebalance the discussion in our favour for projects like this one.
NI may be wary of providing a Linux version because they think there is
not a big enough market but if the numbers show that there are several
million people globally who use Linux Audio Tools they might reconsider.
Also because Linux tools are considered to be high end and challenging
that can be made to work in our favour too. The Music Group own both
Behringer and Midas covering completely different ends of the market. If
they are happy to ship open source tools why wouldn't a company like NI be
interested in making their products available to the same userbase?
The only thing stopping them is the perception that the Linux Audio user
base is a small global market. Another example, Behringer ships Audacity with
every single product
they sell. Clearly the global market leader for audio production
hardware sees some value in open source too. We can get an idea of
their market base by looking at their end of year or quarterly
financial reports.
From Behringer I own a Modulizer Pro, ADA 8000 and an Eurorack UB2442FX.
I never noticed even a hint to Audacity by a slip of paper. I don't
claim that there isn't such a hint, but I never noticed it. You
shouldn't expect that customers take care about all the slip of paper,
stickers, advertising brochures etc., that ship with a Behringer
product. I don't think that I'm the only one thinking that those things
are waste. Who does put on a Behringer sticker on something? Even if
some people should notice that there is a hint to Audacity, that doesn't
mean that they attach more value to it, than to a sticker.
6:02 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 12:53 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 12:18 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
That's one of our advantages as a global multilingual community. We don't
have to be sharks to succeed. We can and have maintained the Linux
approach of sure and steady wins the race. Over the next few years you
will be impressed at what we can achieve if we all take a few moments out
of our busy schedules to reach out to the magazines, businesses and
professionals in our areas.
Look at what people like Paul Davis, Domenico Colturato, Ronald Stewart,
Daniel James, Dave Phillips have achieved already. Most of what they have
done required hard graft and self motivation.
Look at how productive people like Fons Adriensen, Dave Robillard, Chris
Cannam, Eric De Castro Lopo have been almost entirely under their own
steam.
The majority of the work that has already been accomplished came from a
very small selection of incredibly motivated people.
It's entirely unreasonable for the wider community of people who actively
read or subscribe to the various Linux Audio mailing lists to expect these
same people to be the ones in charge of funding, disseminating,
evangelising and promoting Linux Audio to the global userbase.
Considering how many very clever and capable people are members of this
community it is almost comical that we are not already dominating the
global conversation when it comes to high end audio production tools,
hardware solutions and software resources. We all know the reason is
because Linux Audio s purposefully shut out of the conversation but that
shouldn't stop intelligent and capable people from making the connections
on their own.
Go to an AV trade show, look at the software and hardware solutions that
are being presented and tell me if there is anything that you cannot find
a solution for in the Linux toolset.
I've been looking for the past few years and I am thrilled at how much the
Linux Community has achieved. With the global economy in such a bad shape
it is only inevitable that people are going to look harder for solutions
that save them money and Linux Audio is definitely in that space.
The money you can save by not having to purchase all the software that we
already provide means you have more money available for high end items.
We are talking about studios that pay $80k just for the software for a
single seat. That money could be spent on a cluster of 20 machines for
backend rendering with more power on one graphics card than the entire
cluster used to create Avatar or the Lord of the Rings.
Any company that doesn't see the value in that is simply not going to be
able to compete.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Sat, September 1, 2012 11:58 am, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
In Germany you need to win more professional engineers using Linux, then
automatically all the other people pay more attention to Linux. If you
can't win more professionals, then all the others won't pay attention
too.
Talk to
http://www.studio-presse.de/2.0.html
http://www.tonmeister.de/index.php?p=impressum
too. They don't ignore Linux, but it's no that important for most of
them. Make famous engineers and musicians saying "I'm using Linux",
that's how market works. Customer acquisition is a full time job.
I've seen how a former friend started and today is one of the market
leaders for professional studio microphones. He isn't a penguin, he's a
shark. Most of us are penguins :).
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 11:10 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
UB2442FX.
Another example, Behringer ships Audacity with
every single product
they sell. Clearly the global market leader for audio production
hardware sees some value in open source too. We can get an idea of
their market base by looking at their end of year or quarterly
financial reports.
From Behringer I own a Modulizer Pro, ADA 8000 and an Eurorack I never noticed even a hint to Audacity by a slip
of paper. I don't
claim that there isn't such a hint, but I never noticed it. You
shouldn't expect that customers take care about all the slip of paper,
stickers, advertising brochures etc., that ship with a Behringer
product. I don't think that I'm the only one thinking that those
things
are waste. Who does put on a Behringer sticker on
something? Even if
some people should notice that there is a hint to Audacity, that
doesn't
mean that they attach more value to it, than to a
sticker.
It's called extrapolation. In the marketing industry these are the
metrics
that get people interested. We don't have to go as far as most marketing
companies and "massage" the results in our favour (lie). All we have to
do
is extrapolate the best guess of what the numbers are and provide the
info
for everyone else to make their own educated decision.
Given that we have so many metrics to work with now there is absolutely
no
reason we can't provide a very strong case for global adoption potential
that should get the attention of any serious marketing and sales rep and
rebalance the discussion in our favour for projects like this one.
NI may be wary of providing a Linux version because they think there is
not a big enough market but if the numbers show that there are several
million people globally who use Linux Audio Tools they might reconsider.
Also because Linux tools are considered to be high end and challenging
that can be made to work in our favour too. The Music Group own both
Behringer and Midas covering completely different ends of the market. If
they are happy to ship open source tools why wouldn't a company like NI
be
interested in making their products available to the same userbase?
The only thing stopping them is the perception that the Linux Audio user
base is a small global market.
6:22 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 14:02 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Go to an AV trade show, look at the software and
hardware solutions
that are being presented and tell me if there is anything that you
cannot find a solution for in the Linux toolset.
The professional:
"And now I need to use my Antares Auto-Tune or a Linux equivalent that
allows a similar workflow, to finish my Katey Perry production. I'll
call Patrick to explain me, how I can use it with Ardour on the Linux
machine he present me." ;)
The amateur:
"What distro should I use, what version? What printer should I buy? Why
can't I use my RME card, completely with a GUI, but need to use ALSA
mixer? Why do I have to act on my own responsibility? If I ask the
community how to get the perfect loudness-war mix, why do they call me a
troll and send links to Bob Katz?"
We Linux audio users are a minority.
6:30 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 06:21 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 14:02 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
> Go to an AV trade show, look at the software and hardware solutions
> that are being presented and tell me if there is anything that you
> cannot find a solution for in the Linux toolset.
East West Symphonic Choirs or even something less big like Edirol
Orchestral. Arp step sequencer emulations, Alchemy ... and take an
educated guess, do you think Guitarix and Rakkarak do provide what the
consumers can get for Windows?
Should I send you a list ;)?
Video timeline is available for Ardour, but ... for Windows you already
get hard disk recorder + sequencers + video time line in one package,
you don't need to build something yourself. Some people simply download
cracked versions.
7:14 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:29 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 06:21 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
Yes, please do. That way we can see where the gaps are...
A few choral voice sets, sequencers and guitar fx options doesn't do much
for me personally but others might feel more passionate about that.
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 14:02 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
> Go to an AV trade show, look at the software and hardware solutions
> that are being presented and tell me if there is anything that you
> cannot find a solution for in the Linux toolset.
East West Symphonic Choirs or even something less big like Edirol
Orchestral. Arp step sequencer emulations, Alchemy ... and take an
educated guess, do you think Guitarix and Rakkarak do provide what the
consumers can get for Windows?
Should I send you a list ;)?
Video timeline is available for Ardour, but ... for
Windows you already
get hard disk recorder + sequencers + video time line in one package,
you don't need to build something yourself. Some people simply download
cracked versions.
It's a common misconception. We already have Blender, Cinelerra, Ardour
and JACK?
There is also smoke:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=18706115&am…
and of course massive....
http://www.massivesoftware.com/
You can get an idea of what Linux is capable of in AV production from here:
http://www.wetafx.co.nz/features
- And if you wanna get into 3d graphics Unity3d also runs on Llinux
http://unity3d.com/unity/4/faq#sec1-h
With several native game engines that are well advanced these days too
like for example cube engine.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
7:28 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
It's a common misconception. We already have
Blender, Cinelerra, Ardour
and JACK?
There is also smoke:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=18706115&am…
and of course massive....
http://www.massivesoftware.com/
You can get an idea of what Linux is capable of in AV production from here:
http://www.wetafx.co.nz/features
Many commercial animation & CG apps are available on Linux: Maya,
MudBox, 3D-Coat, TVPaint (sadly, no ZBrush or ToonBoom). Linux has
proven itself in the visual effects & animation industry because big
productions started using it... 'Titanic' and 'Lord of the Rings'
really pushed it into the spotlight.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
7:50 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 3:28 pm, Brett McCoy wrote:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
Another closed source movie tool for Linux I found out about recently is
Fabric Engine. They are sponsored by AMD no less.
The movie industry has clearly embraced Linux so it's really very strange
that the audio industry is still claiming that they are scared to get
their feet wet given that the majority of paying work these days is as a
direct result of the film and television, marketing industries. The money
to be made from selling a cd is almost negligible compared to a salaries
being earned producing and editing for film/tv and ever increasing web
based content markets.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
It's a common misconception. We already have
Blender, Cinelerra, Ardour
and JACK?
There is also smoke:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=18706115&am…
and of course massive....
http://www.massivesoftware.com/
You can get an idea of what Linux is capable of in AV production from
here:
http://www.wetafx.co.nz/features
Many commercial animation & CG apps are available on Linux: Maya,
MudBox, 3D-Coat, TVPaint (sadly, no ZBrush or ToonBoom). Linux has
proven itself in the visual effects & animation industry because big
productions started using it... 'Titanic' and 'Lord of the Rings'
really pushed it into the spotlight.
7:55 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything, it's used for
animations only and not the complete work is done with Linux. For
non-animation movies you won't find Linux.
7:59 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 07:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Even for animations, could you please name a lip-sync-apps for
animations produced with Linux?
The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything, it's used for
animations only and not the complete work is done with Linux. For
non-animation movies you won't find Linux.
8:07 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 3:58 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 07:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
So Avatar and the Lord of the Rings don't count as Live actors?
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything, it's used for
animations only and not the complete work is done with Linux. For
non-animation movies you won't find Linux. Even for animations, could you please name a
lip-sync-apps for
animations produced with Linux?
Do you have some examples?
*if* it's missing it must be an oversight but it's certainly not because
it can't be done. After all Weta seems to be pretty good at getting lip
sync so they must have a solution...
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
9:52 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 16:07 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I don't know any professional animation environments, but there are some
auto-sync apps available used at least by amateurs.
I don't remember the name of the good app I've seen a professional comic
draw I know used. He's a professional comic drawer, but animations are
just a "hobby".
So I used google:
http://aescripts.com/auto-lip-sync/
Even for
animations, could you please name a lip-sync-apps for
animations produced with Linux?
Do you have some examples?
*if* it's missing it must be an oversight but it's certainly not because
it can't be done. After all Weta seems to be pretty good at getting lip
sync so they must have a solution...
3:14 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 07:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
You don't need a specialized app for doing lip-synch, you can do it with Ardour.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
Even for animations, could you please name a lip-sync-apps for
animations produced with Linux? The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything, it's used for
animations only and not the complete work is done with Linux. For
non-animation movies you won't find Linux. 
3:30 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
You don't need a specialized app for doing
lip-synch, you can do it with Ardour.
"We could also live on a tree and eat our food while it's still
wriggling" (c) Terry Pratchett
:)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
4:01 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
I forgot, there is an open source lip synch app for Linux, created by
the guy who made the original version of Moho (now know as Anime
Studio, which used to have Linux support but runs amazingly well under
Wine).
http://www.lostmarble.com/papagayo/index.shtml
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
You don't need a specialized app for doing
lip-synch, you can do it with Ardour.
"We could also live on a tree and eat our food while it's still
wriggling" (c) Terry Pratchett
4:17 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
I forgot, there is an open source lip synch app for
Linux, created by
the guy who made the original version of Moho (now know as Anime
Studio, which used to have Linux support but runs amazingly well under
Wine).
http://www.lostmarble.com/papagayo/index.shtml
You mean you run it with WINE while there is source code available under GPL? :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
4:28 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
No, this runs natively (Python), I meant Anime Studio runs under Wine,
for which Papagayo was designed
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
I forgot, there is an open source lip synch app
for Linux, created by
the guy who made the original version of Moho (now know as Anime
Studio, which used to have Linux support but runs amazingly well under
Wine).
http://www.lostmarble.com/papagayo/index.shtml
You mean you run it with WINE while there is source code available under GPL? :) 
4:56 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
If "high quality" for you means high expense -
a Million $ Studio with 6000 $ Neumann Mics,
recording a world class musician with a Million $ Instrument,
...
then, add a $windows machine as sampler.
(And let me claim, that much of what you pay is a marketing campain.)
If you are like me, and think
that "high quality" is, what produces good sound
and is available and producable in most home studios today,
you could concentrate on music
and stay happy with linux and linuxsampler.
(or be the first to make a kickstarter project)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/675954423/the-uptown-trolley-sound-libr…
--
E.R.
2 Sep
2 Sep
5:48 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 18:17 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
It seems not to draw natural lip movements automatically to wav files
with spoken text.
Regards,
Ralf
I forgot, there is an open source lip synch app
for Linux, created by
the guy who made the original version of Moho (now know as Anime
Studio, which used to have Linux support but runs amazingly well under
Wine).
http://www.lostmarble.com/papagayo/index.shtml
You mean you run it with WINE while there is source code available under GPL? :)
5:55 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
It seems not to draw natural lip movements
automatically to wav files
with spoken text.
Lip-synch tools don't do that automatically anyway, not even Magpie.
They all just provide you with a way to take a waveform and scrub it,
so you can match it against templates of mouth shapes (which Papagayo
does provide, you can even provide your own). Lip-synch can be done
without that, many animators still just scrub the audio and use an
X-sheet.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
6:21 p.m.
New subject: Linux FLOSS video
On Sun, 2012-09-02 at 11:55 -0400, Brett McCoy wrote:
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
There are applications where you can mark a mouth and then the lips will
move naturally and automatically to audio file. I've forgotten the name
of a much used app, but I googled and send a link to an app in an
earlier reply. I don't know if exactly this app is a good one, but there
at least is one app that's excellent.
http://aescripts.com/images/script_thumbs/mm/AutoLipSync/autolipsync_interf…
http://www.mamoworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&…
Regards,
Ralf
It seems not to draw natural lip movements
automatically to wav files
with spoken text.
Lip-synch tools don't do that automatically anyway, not even Magpie.
They all just provide you with a way to take a waveform and scrub it,
so you can match it against templates of mouth shapes (which Papagayo
does provide, you can even provide your own). Lip-synch can be done
without that, many animators still just scrub the audio and use an
X-sheet.
5:49 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 10:00 -0400, Brett McCoy wrote:
Doesn't need to. You just need to determine synch points against the
recorded dialog. Animators did it for decades before computers were
around, using just a tape reel and an X-Sheet.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
You don't need a specialized app for doing
lip-synch, you can do it
with Ardour.
Ardour does not automatically draw natural looking mouth movements ;). 
8:07 p.m.
New subject: Linux FLOSS video
On Sun, 2012-09-02 at 11:49 -0400, Brett McCoy wrote:
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
They also used an animation table. I prefer films made with an animation
table, to computer animated films, but especially at home, you can't
draw all the movments, even if you reduce the frames to a minimum. If
you want to make an animation film at home, without 100 people drawing,
then you need software.
Regards,
Ralf
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 10:00 -0400, Brett McCoy
wrote:
Doesn't need to. You just need to determine synch points against the
recorded dialog. Animators did it for decades before computers were
around, using just a tape reel and an X-Sheet.
You don't need a specialized app for doing
lip-synch, you can do it
with Ardour.
Ardour does not automatically draw natural looking mouth movements ;).
8:50 p.m.
New subject: Linux FLOSS video
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
They also used an animation table. I prefer films made
with an animation
table, to computer animated films, but especially at home, you can't
draw all the movments, even if you reduce the frames to a minimum. If
you want to make an animation film at home, without 100 people drawing,
then you need software.
Ever heard of Bill Plympton? He still draws all of his animation by
hand, with paper and pencil, and even does a lot of coloring by hand,
using pencils. I believe John Kricfalusi still draws with an animation
disk, but uses ToonBoom for inking and coloring (the same could be
done with Synfig or Inkscape).
A lot of hand-drawn animation is being done on Cintiqs now, digitally,
but still drawn by hand, frame by frame. Paul Fierlinger did his last
feature, "My Dog Tulip", entirely by himself using TVPaint and a Wacom
tablet, you don't need 100s of animators to do this, just time and
dedication.
Anyway, we are going way off topic here, as this is only tangentially
related to Linux audio.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
9:28 p.m.
New subject: Linux FLOSS video
On Sun, 2012-09-02 at 14:50 -0400, Brett McCoy wrote:
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
It's not OT, since film/video and audio are related. Patrick asked what
is provided and used on Mac and Windows and missing for Linux.
Excepted of Linux stand alone devices, resp. special hardware/software
solutions nobody can't have at home, perhaps Robin can, but usually we
can't pay for it and excepted of some people drawing a complete
animation film alone, there is software available, that isn't available
for Linux. So, if Patrick wants to make more companies taking care about
Linux, then it's useless to argue with unpayable professional film gear,
as Robin did and it's useless to claim, that some software isn't needed,
because it can be done without this software.
I'm using Linux only myself.
However, if we want more attention to Linux, we can't argue that way.
Companies see what's available and much used on Mac and Windows and if
Linux doesn't provide this, then for sure many companies aren't
interested in Linux as a market.
We can put lipstick on the pig, but that won't change the situation.
Regards,
Ralf
They also used an animation table. I prefer films
made with an animation
table, to computer animated films, but especially at home, you can't
draw all the movments, even if you reduce the frames to a minimum. If
you want to make an animation film at home, without 100 people drawing,
then you need software.
Ever heard of Bill Plympton? He still draws all of his animation by
hand, with paper and pencil, and even does a lot of coloring by hand,
using pencils. I believe John Kricfalusi still draws with an animation
disk, but uses ToonBoom for inking and coloring (the same could be
done with Synfig or Inkscape).
A lot of hand-drawn animation is being done on Cintiqs now, digitally,
but still drawn by hand, frame by frame. Paul Fierlinger did his last
feature, "My Dog Tulip", entirely by himself using TVPaint and a Wacom
tablet, you don't need 100s of animators to do this, just time and
dedication.
Anyway, we are going way off topic here, as this is only tangentially
related to Linux audio.
9:52 p.m.
New subject: Linux FLOSS video
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
It's not OT, since film/video and audio are
related. Patrick asked what
is provided and used on Mac and Windows and missing for Linux.
Excepted of Linux stand alone devices, resp. special hardware/software
solutions nobody can't have at home, perhaps Robin can, but usually we
can't pay for it and excepted of some people drawing a complete
animation film alone, there is software available, that isn't available
for Linux.
TVPaint is available for Linux. It's not an inexpensive application,
however, but it one of the best applications for creating hand-drawn
animation in the industry. There are some free apps, too, like Pencil
and Gimp Animation Plugin, and of course, Synfig for vector animation.
Companies see what's available and much used on
Mac and Windows and if
Linux doesn't provide this, then for sure many companies aren't
interested in Linux as a market.
That is indeed the biggest issue... it's going to be much harder to
get commercial interest in audio software on LInux, because there is
this perception that no one is using it... so people don't use Linux
because there aren't commercial apps on it. The film world has had a
better time of it because there have been a couple of big films early
on that used Linux for the rendering pipeline, so there is a lot more
stuff available for Linux commercially.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
3 Sep
3 Sep
5:10 a.m.
New subject: Linux FLOSS video
On 03/09/12 03:27, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
It's not OT, since film/video and audio are
related.
yes
Excepted of Linux stand alone devices, resp. special
hardware/software
solutions nobody can't have at home, perhaps Robin can, but usually we
can't pay for it and excepted of some people drawing a complete
animation film alone, there is software available, that isn't available
for Linux. So, if Patrick wants to make more companies taking care about
Linux, then it's useless to argue with unpayable professional film gear,
as Robin did and it's useless to claim, that some software isn't needed,
because it can be done without this software.
I'm using Linux only myself.
However, if we want more attention to Linux, we can't argue that way.
Companies see what's available and much used on Mac and Windows and if
Linux doesn't provide this, then for sure many companies aren't
interested in Linux as a market.
We can put lipstick on the pig, but that won't change the situation.
there are two issues being confused here ....
High end expensive software that runs natively on linux is certainly part of the
linux audio realm, even if not open source itself.
Linux is not only about home-use cheap solutions, and it is not only about
running FLOSS systems. It seems a more and more suitable platform for some kinds
of commercial software and for some kinds of expensive industry uses in video
and elsewhere. There seems to be more and more specialist high end markets for
it, and indeed more and more only-partly-FLOSS low end and embedded systems such
as Android phones and tablets out in the wild. That is a good thing for those of
us that also use Linux in FLOSS systems, since it pays for quite some input into
the kernel we all use ... but that is only because Linux is GPL and not some
less restrictive license!
Now that Final Cut Pro has become abandon-ware (at least as far as serious
studio use on big projects goes, though the replacement is probably OK for
smaller studios and projects) then those studios will need to look at non-apple
solutions. Since animation and 3D work is so heavily a part of the industry now,
and almost certainly part of the training and experience of anyone entering the
industry in the last few years, then the traditional paradigm for video editing
(based on the old film based methods) as used by FCP and Avid as well as (in a
more limited way) in lots of other applications including FLOSS ones is becoming
less relevant.
What will replace Apple and its set of applications in these studios is an
interesting question, perhaps Apple has done its usual trick of dropping
something as soon as they see it is on the road to being replaced anyway, and
perhaps they will continue to support their 3D and animation stuff on the
platform for a long time, but surely being bitten by switching from Avid to FCP
then finding Apple's commitment to the industry was somewhat capricious and a
that lot of training is now going to waste they may be wary of trusting the
platform too much in the future.
Simon
9:35 a.m.
New subject: Linux FLOSS video
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 11:09 +0800, Simon Wise wrote:
Linux is not only about home-use cheap solutions
Companies are aware that Linux is used a lot by cheap gear, such as
satellite receivers and by expensive gear, such as stand alone audio
workstations. If we want companies to take care that their audio cards,
scanners, printers etc. can be used with Linux too, then we are talking
about cheap home solutions for desktop PCs. Do you think RME doesn't
know that there are professional Linux devices used in professional
studios? They are aware of this, but that's not a reason for them to
ship new audio cards with Linux software. Cards as the one I'm using,
the HDSPe AIO are made for averaged desktop PCs. I don't say that an
averaged desktop PC can't be used for professional work. However, I
wonder what market Patrick is interested in. Nobody needs to convince
me. I thought there's an interest to convince companies.
Note that there's a tendency by the industry to switch from Linux to
Microsoft for expensive industry gear, such as measuring instruments.
However, if people think that arguing with some top notch products used
by a hand full of rich studios and arguing that stuff that isn't
available for Linux, isn't needed, because in the days before we had
computers, we hadn't those tools too, plus informing about vague
statistics, will make companies change their mind, so that they are
willing to write closed source drivers for each kernel or hat they'll
provide information they until now keep secret, why not simply email
this information to the companies ;)? Companies don't support their
hardware for Linux, because they've got all the information.
They don't care about the Linux audio community, companies perhaps will
take a little bit care about Linux companies like Novell/Suse and Red
Hat. If you buy a ready build computer at the discounter, what OS most
of the times does ship with this computer, all over the world? What
office software is used the most etc.?
Companies like Microsoft and Apple try to get world domination, they are
sharks. The basic idea of Linux, FLOSS, is completely different. Sharks
and Penguins are different species, they can't have that easy babies
together, evolution still needs some steps to enable this. If we are
talking about Linux, we're talking about FLOSS and FLOSS is a serious
problem for the sharks.
Regards,
Ralf
1 Sep
1 Sep
10:47 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On 2012-09-01 07:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
You are soooo wrong!
They all love Linux. "They" in this case are Hollywood based WB,
Technicolor and LA Center Studios. Probably others too. Their
Datacenters runs almost exclusively on it. While it's true that actual
editing work happens predominantly on Win/AVID, there is some customized
HW/SW around (e.g. for color-correction) that is Linux-based and the
amount of it is rising quickly due to fact that it can be customized,
adapted and maintained much more easily than Win or OSX. None of it is
free-software, though.
best,
robin
The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything
11:17 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 10:47 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote:
On 2012-09-01 07:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Apologize, I meant Linux FLOSS.
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
You are soooo wrong!
None of it is free-software, though. The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything 
8:43 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Robin Gareus <robin(a)gareus.org> wrote:
On 2012-09-01 07:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
I want to point out and repeat what Robin actually said here, as this is on
two lists and it is hard for me to follow what post is on what list as I
read them all as one thread...
The Movie Industry DOES use Linux, HOWEVER it is primarily on render farms,
and backend support. The majority of the editing, mixing, etc. does not
happen on Linux yet, sorry.
A short time ago I went looking for, and demo'd the available options for,
a decent video editor on Linux that could do a simple task. Allow me to
easily, and quickly, green screen out a source clip, and overlay it on top
of a background and layer in additional generated content (Titles, images,
etc.) in between them and on top of them(While obviously maintaining a high
level of quality). The end result? I purchased Final Cut Pro X (Already
had Final Cut Studio) and do the work on my mac laptop. I hope to see
something like Lightworks change this, but honestly I wasn't able to work
nearly as quickly in the tools that could do this basic workflow(And I am
on a timeline where I would have an afternoon or less to get the work done
before I have to do other projects, and that includes editing the audio),
and many tools I expected to be able to do this (The Blender NLE for
instance) couldn't in a way that was close to acceptable for the timeline I
needed to work in(And I specifically went asking several people that are
fairly knowledgeable in using the NLE and all aspects of Blender as well
when I found I couldn't do it myself).
Even with this, I have now hired on a couple of people to pick up the video
work so that I can concentrate on audio. Sadly right now there are severe
limitations on this even. My primary workstation is Linux for the record,
I accept audio stems and work on them and render out new audio for them to
remux to the video. If they haven't got something cut I can use, I either
have to manually pull in the original audio, find the section they used,
and recut it, and manually pull it into sync, or I have to get them to
redit and rexport the audio. Why? Because I am dealing with people on at
least two different platforms and currently there isn't a good solution for
AAF or OMF that works with ArdourXChange out of FInal Cut Pro (Either
Studio, which I tested with John without Automatic Duck that no longer
exists, or X as Automatic Duck went no longer exists and I can't even their
previously released plugin for X anymore, and am now hearing the
laternatives dont' work well either and there is no option to write to it
from FCPX).
Or I can go into Windows and possibly use AATranslator, which by all
accounts I have heard is great software and would do what I want, but I
don't have a Windows machine and we are discussing native solutions on
Linux.
So what I have right now is a substandard solution, that thankfully I am
typically either just doing basic edits on long pieces or working on short
(approx 5 min) clips so that I can deal with it. But doing a full length
feature having to work with dozens if not hundreds of others on such a
workflow? Talk about painful. This doesn't include mixing in a so called
'standard' destination format like 5.1 etc. that is also still fairly
painful on Linux, even with the revamped VBAP panner in A3.
Now don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I don't enjoy working in Linux.
Most of my stuff is primarily stereo destined, I thoroughly enjoy working
in Ardour and Mixbus in Linux with Jadeo for doing sound for video, or
editing down music, etc. But it works for me because I know how to work in
it, and don't need to relearn the 'quirks' of the workflow etc. I can work
faster in Linux than I can on OS X using the same tools. But many tools
just don't exist that would enable a true workflow as is needed for it to
become popular for a majority of uses that many people are using the other
OSes for. I didn't submit bug reports to each of those pieces of software
I tried above.. I probably should have, but was under a very tight
timeline, especially then as I was doing at least two people's jobs. And
this is true of most 'professionals' in the industry. If it can't be fixed
quick then it is broken and you have to move on to get other work done and
bills payed.
In particular Blender with 3D is doing amazing work, but it is only one
piece of the puzzle. I am looking forward to reading up on their success
with their new open movie, where they started incorporating blender into a
live workflow, and seeing how they did, I hope it addresses some of the
reasons I couldn't use it above, honestly. I enjoy using Blender for the
little 3D work I do, and would have enjoyed using it for the video work as
well quite likely.
Remember, most of the 'professional' users of software in the industry
aren't the really big houses(Unless talking about very specialized
software). They are the smaller commercial studios, project studios,
independant companies, etc that outnumber the larger studios tremendously
and typically do a lot of the commercial work(Commercials, but also
industrials like training videos for companies, corporations, release
videos, etc.)
Seablade
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
You are soooo wrong!
They all love Linux. "They" in this case are Hollywood based WB,
Technicolor and LA Center Studios. Probably others too. Their Datacenters
runs almost exclusively on it. While it's true that actual editing work
happens predominantly on Win/AVID, there is some customized HW/SW around
(e.g. for color-correction) that is Linux-based and the amount of it is
rising quickly due to fact that it can be customized, adapted and
maintained much more easily than Win or OSX. None of it is free-software,
though.
best,
robin
The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything
10:31 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sun, September 2, 2012 4:43 am, Thomas Vecchione wrote:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Robin Gareus
<robin(a)gareus.org> wrote:
This problem comes down to the strangle hold that a few companies have on
the audio tools market and the impact that has on the Linux user base and
development environment. There is categorically no reason why this problem
could not have been solved by now if the people using the software in
professional context were actively feeding that information back into the
development pipeline.
Clearly the problem has been solved in programs like smoke and maya which
have been running on Unix platforms for longer than they have been on
Linux.
There is a large group of companies that build solutions that run on Linux
that we never hear about. For example did you know that there is a company
that specialises in porting AMD's instruction set to a paraellised
architecture for a closed source version of ffmpeg? They are actually paid
by AMD to do this and provide services almost exclusively to Government,
Military and HPC researchers.
The main problem here is not that the software or skills are not available
but that there is not a big enough pool of professionals participating in
the development cycle to drive the open platform forward. To solve this
problem we need more publicity singing the praises of the platform and
demonstrating the real world value that professionals gain from providing
feedback on the tools that we know they are using.
It requires a very conscious decision on the part of the user to
participate in the feedback cycle and to encourage it there needs to be
some kind of incentive which makes it not only fun but a critical business
tactic. We are working on that problem here but it is still a murky area
at the moment. Rest assured that several heads are involved :-)
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On 2012-09-01 07:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
I want to point out and repeat what Robin actually said here, as this is
on
two lists and it is hard for me to follow what post is on what list as I
read them all as one thread...
The Movie Industry DOES use Linux, HOWEVER it is primarily on render
farms,
and backend support. The majority of the editing, mixing, etc. does not
happen on Linux yet, sorry.
A short time ago I went looking for, and demo'd the available options for,
a decent video editor on Linux that could do a simple task. Allow me to
easily, and quickly, green screen out a source clip, and overlay it on top
of a background and layer in additional generated content (Titles, images,
etc.) in between them and on top of them(While obviously maintaining a
high
level of quality). The end result? I purchased Final Cut Pro X (Already
had Final Cut Studio) and do the work on my mac laptop. I hope to see
something like Lightworks change this, but honestly I wasn't able to work
nearly as quickly in the tools that could do this basic workflow(And I am
on a timeline where I would have an afternoon or less to get the work done
before I have to do other projects, and that includes editing the audio),
and many tools I expected to be able to do this (The Blender NLE for
instance) couldn't in a way that was close to acceptable for the timeline
I
needed to work in(And I specifically went asking several people that are
fairly knowledgeable in using the NLE and all aspects of Blender as well
when I found I couldn't do it myself).
Even with this, I have now hired on a couple of people to pick up the
video
work so that I can concentrate on audio. Sadly right now there are severe
limitations on this even. My primary workstation is Linux for the record,
I accept audio stems and work on them and render out new audio for them to
remux to the video. If they haven't got something cut I can use, I either
have to manually pull in the original audio, find the section they used,
and recut it, and manually pull it into sync, or I have to get them to
redit and rexport the audio. Why? Because I am dealing with people on at
least two different platforms and currently there isn't a good solution
for
AAF or OMF that works with ArdourXChange out of FInal Cut Pro (Either
Studio, which I tested with John without Automatic Duck that no longer
exists, or X as Automatic Duck went no longer exists and I can't even
their
previously released plugin for X anymore, and am now hearing the
laternatives dont' work well either and there is no option to write to it
from FCPX).
Or I can go into Windows and possibly use AATranslator, which by all
accounts I have heard is great software and would do what I want, but I
don't have a Windows machine and we are discussing native solutions on
Linux.
So what I have right now is a substandard solution, that thankfully I am
typically either just doing basic edits on long pieces or working on short
(approx 5 min) clips so that I can deal with it. But doing a full length
feature having to work with dozens if not hundreds of others on such a
workflow? Talk about painful. This doesn't include mixing in a so called
'standard' destination format like 5.1 etc. that is also still fairly
painful on Linux, even with the revamped VBAP panner in A3.
Now don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I don't enjoy working in Linux.
Most of my stuff is primarily stereo destined, I thoroughly enjoy working
in Ardour and Mixbus in Linux with Jadeo for doing sound for video, or
editing down music, etc. But it works for me because I know how to work
in
it, and don't need to relearn the 'quirks' of the workflow etc. I can
work
faster in Linux than I can on OS X using the same tools. But many tools
just don't exist that would enable a true workflow as is needed for it to
become popular for a majority of uses that many people are using the other
OSes for. I didn't submit bug reports to each of those pieces of software
I tried above.. I probably should have, but was under a very tight
timeline, especially then as I was doing at least two people's jobs. And
this is true of most 'professionals' in the industry. If it can't be
fixed
quick then it is broken and you have to move on to get other work done and
bills payed.
In particular Blender with 3D is doing amazing work, but it is only one
piece of the puzzle. I am looking forward to reading up on their success
with their new open movie, where they started incorporating blender into a
live workflow, and seeing how they did, I hope it addresses some of the
reasons I couldn't use it above, honestly. I enjoy using Blender for the
little 3D work I do, and would have enjoyed using it for the video work as
well quite likely.
Remember, most of the 'professional' users of software in the industry
aren't the really big houses(Unless talking about very specialized
software). They are the smaller commercial studios, project studios,
independant companies, etc that outnumber the larger studios tremendously
and typically do a lot of the commercial work(Commercials, but also
industrials like training videos for companies, corporations, release
videos, etc.)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
You are soooo wrong!
They all love Linux. "They" in this case are Hollywood based WB,
Technicolor and LA Center Studios. Probably others too. Their
Datacenters
runs almost exclusively on it. While it's true that actual editing work
happens predominantly on Win/AVID, there is some customized HW/SW around
(e.g. for color-correction) that is Linux-based and the amount of it is
rising quickly due to fact that it can be customized, adapted and
maintained much more easily than Win or OSX. None of it is
free-software,
though.
best,
robin
The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything
2:51 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:50 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Is this why DaVinci Resolve is officially supported on Linux? :)
I just *knew* they were wasting their money :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
The movie industry
Linux isn't use by the movie industry for everything, it's used for
animations only and not the complete work is done with Linux. For
non-animation movies you won't find Linux. 
5 Sep
5 Sep
6:44 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 01, 2012 at 03:50:22PM +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
The movie industry has clearly embraced Linux so
it's really very strange
Could it not be that it is cheaper than running SGI workstations, which
were the predominant workstation?
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
7:01 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Chris Bannister
<cbannister(a)slingshot.co.nz> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 01, 2012 at 03:50:22PM +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
The current line of SGI machines are running Linux anyway, like this one:
http://www.sgi.com/solutions/media/render_mgt.html
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
The movie industry has clearly embraced Linux so
it's really very strange
Could it not be that it is cheaper than running SGI workstations, which
were the predominant workstation?
1 Sep
1 Sep
7:38 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:14 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:29 pm, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
To send a list would be to time consuming. Btw. I'm using Linux only +
some stand alone synth and real instruments.
The East West Choirs sing your lyrics. It's not another Ahhhh or Ohhhh
sample ;).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI5Gg2-mhmU
A less expensive Orchestra, East West fore sure provides a better
Orchestra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLOz-Y49h4k
And this doesn't show tremolo strings special techniques to play brass
etc., available by this LowFi Orchestra, that anyway does sound as sound
much better as a free sampler + free samples for Linux.
Should I send you a list ;)?
Yes, please do. That way we can see where the gaps are...
A few choral voice sets
8:20 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 3:38 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:14 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
If there are gaps that you are aware of and you don't let people know
about them then you can't reasonably expect solutions to be provided.
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:29 pm, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
To send a list would be to time consuming. Btw. I'm using Linux only +
some stand alone synth and real instruments.
Should I send you a list ;)?
Yes, please do. That way we can see where the gaps are...
A few choral voice sets The East West Choirs sing your lyrics. It's not
another Ahhhh or Ohhhh
sample ;).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI5Gg2-mhmU
A less expensive Orchestra, East West fore sure provides a better
Orchestra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLOz-Y49h4k
And this doesn't show tremolo strings special techniques to play brass
etc., available by this LowFi Orchestra, that anyway does sound as sound
much better as a free sampler + free samples for Linux.
You may not recall but in "Abundance" I made ample use of a singing robot.
There are several people who have spent a considerable amount of time and
effort on choral voices for the Linux platform. Given that it is one of
the higher arts do you really think that there are not serious scientific
studies on this topic being undertaken at this very moment that rely on
Linux for their research platform?
Fons probably has much more information on this topic than I do given that
it is one of the core goals of La Casa De La Musica to preserve the choral
traditions (IIUC).
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
10:18 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralf Mardorf"
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
The East West Choirs sing your lyrics. It's not another Ahhhh or
Ohhhh
sample ;).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI5Gg2-mhmU
any technical info on that? free software doing the same, research papers
(easily available), anything?
10:33 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:18 PM, SxDx <sed(a)free.fr> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
The video is pretty old, as EWQL now has their own proprietary sample
engine (PLAY) that handles the the word engine. Nothing in the FLOSS
world does this kind of thing, that I know of.
There're also the Vocaloid apps, which do a similar thing for solo voice:
http://www.zero-g.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1004
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
From: "Ralf Mardorf"
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
The East West Choirs sing your lyrics. It's not another Ahhhh or
Ohhhh
sample ;).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI5Gg2-mhmU
any technical info on that? free software doing the same, research papers
(easily available), anything? 
11:08 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Brett McCoy <idragosani(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The video is pretty old, as EWQL now has their own proprietary sample
engine (PLAY)
which, ironically, was originally conceived of as a GPL'ed open source
project. the owners of EW changed their minds about this somewhere around
the time coding began. i know this because i was one of the people they
asked to write it (i declined).
2 Sep
2 Sep
12:06 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Brett McCoy
<idragosani(a)gmail.com> wrote:
That's interesting...
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
The video is pretty old, as EWQL now has their own proprietary sample
engine (PLAY)
which, ironically, was originally conceived of as a GPL'ed open source
project. the owners of EW changed their minds about this somewhere around
the time coding began. i know this because i was one of the people they
asked to write it (i declined). 
3 Sep
3 Sep
7:15 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
Am 01.09.2012 06:29, schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
... and take an
educated guess, do you think Guitarix and Rakkarak do provide what the
consumers can get for Windows?
Should I send you a list;)?
As the upstream maintainer from the guitarix project, I like to let you
know that we never have the goal to make a competition to windows or
other OS's. We just like to provide a OpenSource Tube Amplifier emulation.
Also, I wonder that I cant remember any Bug report or Feature request
made by you, so I get the impression that your contribution to the Linux
Audio ECO System is focused on just blaming those how try to improve the
Situation. Is that what you call educated? Even if this is somewhat
off-topic in a thread about Sample Formats, I cant see any
use/information in your statement above.
regards
hermann
9:54 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 07:15 +0200, hermann meyer wrote:
Also, I wonder that I cant remember any Bug report or
Feature request
made by you
Why should I do this? I'm not missing anything at the moment and I can't
report bugs, when I don't know bugs. I'm not talking about me, I only
try to explain the stand point of companies, that aren't interested that
much in Linux. Just because you and me, we, are comfortable with using
Linux, any thoughts about what might be the reasons why companies have a
different point of view, need to result in a personal assault?
Is this what you call educated?
Okay, I'm wrong, you're right, write this to the companies and tomorrow
they all will ship with Linux support for their products. If it's that
easy, why did others (not me) start this effort, to think about, what
could be done to change the situation?
Where did I try to blame someone? I didn't. Again, I try to explain the
point of view of companies. FWIW I worked a lot for those sharks and
don't do it anymore.
Perhaps you should ask those companies that aren't interested in Linux,
to file bug reports and do feature requests. Why do you expect it from
me? I'm not one of those companies, I'm a Linux user.
I already wrote to much and it's useless to explain what I think about
reasons why companies don't like Linux that much.
Regards,
Ralf
5:11 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
Am 03.09.2012 09:53, schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 07:15 +0200, hermann meyer
wrote:
Because you wrote:
Also, I wonder that I cant remember any Bug
report or Feature request
made by you
Why should I do this? I'm not missing anything at the moment and I
can't
report bugs, when I don't know bugs. ... and take an
educated guess, do you think Guitarix and Rakkarak do provide what the
consumers can get for Windows?
Which imply that you miss a feature in guitarix
and/or Rakkarrack, or at
least think that they are incomplete. You wrote this here in a open
Mailing List, but didn't think that it is worse to let the developers of
those tools know about that. And, o top of it, if you get ask directly
what you missing, you wrote, "oh, nothing,. . "
I'm not talking about me, I only
try to explain the stand point of companies, that aren't interested that
much in Linux. Just because you and me, we, are comfortable with using
Linux, any thoughts about what might be the reasons why companies have a
different point of view, need to result in a personal assault?
I fail to see any
relation to Company’s which provide or not provide
support for Linux OS for there hard or software products,
Is this what you call educated?
Okay, I'm wrong, you're right, write this to the companies and tomorrow
they all will ship with Linux support for their products. If it's that
easy, why did others (not me) start this effort, to think about, what
could be done to change the situation?
Again, I fail to see any relation . . .
Where did I try to blame someone? I didn't. Again, I try to explain the
point of view of companies. FWIW I worked a lot for those sharks and
don't do it anymore.
Perhaps you should ask those companies that aren't interested in Linux,
to file bug reports and do feature requests. Why do you expect it from
me? I'm not one of those companies, I'm a Linux user.
There wasn't a
Company wrote about the incompleteness of some small Open
Projects, it was you how pronounce that those little bad designed and
incomplete Tools are the reason why Company’s wouldn't support Linux.
And now you try to hide yourself behind those Company’s and mark what
you wrote as if they have said it.
I already wrote to much and it's useless to
explain what I think about
reasons why companies don't like Linux that much.
Indeed, here I agree with
you.
hermann
Regards,
Ralf
6:22 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 11:11 AM, hermann meyer <brummer-(a)web.de> wrote:
Which imply that you miss a feature in guitarix and/or
Rakkarrack, or at
least think that they are incomplete. You wrote this here in a open Mailing
List, but didn't think that it is worse to let the developers of those
tools know about that. And, o top of it, if you get ask directly what you
missing, you wrote, "oh, nothing,. . "
For once, I have to stick up for Ralf. Simply put, it doesn't imply
anything.
Just because there is an option for something on another OS doesn't mean
that I think that feature should be in every piece of software on Linux.
This isn't comparing Guitarix or Rakkarak to specific pieces of software,
this is comparing the choices of software for a usage and variety of tools
on Linux to those on Windows or Mac. Guitarix or Rakarrak are just
examples of what exists on Linux, and while I don't use them, just because
they can't do everything that hundreds of pieces of software on Mac or
Windows do, doesn't mean they are incomplete. This is ESPECIALLY true
given your own view of the product goals which you stated...
I like to let you know that we never have the goal to make a competition to
windows or other OS's. We just like to provide a
OpenSource Tube Amplifier
emulation.
Your software only provides one specific piece to the selection of guitar
FX software.
Just because I have an option of using a socket driver and socket sets
doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with my combination wrenches. In
the audio world this translates into, just because I have the option of
using EQ-A instead of EQ-B it doesn't necessarily mean I think either is
wrong. I can use LinuxDSP's Pultec EQ, instead of or with Harrison
Console's built in EQ on Mixbus, or I could use one of a half dozen
different other EQs instead of either, and depending on the material I will
use multiple. But this level of choice still doesn't compare to the
literally hundreds of EQs available on Windows or Mac, but they do what I
need them to and I am perfectly happy with them.
You got really defensive against something that wasn't an attack on you or
your software in my opinion. Personally I don't even use either pieces of
software so I can't speak for how good or bad they are, but I read nothing
in Ralf's responses that said they were bad at all. Just that they don't
equate to the much larger selection of tools on other OSes.
Seablade
7:14 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Mon, September 3, 2012 9:22 am, Thomas Vecchione wrote:
This isn't comparing Guitarix or Rakkarak to
specific pieces of software,
this is comparing the choices of software for a usage and variety of tools
on Linux to those on Windows or Mac. Guitarix or Rakarrak are just
examples of what exists on Linux, and while I don't use them, just because
they can't do everything that hundreds of pieces of software on Mac or
Windows do, doesn't mean they are incomplete. This is ESPECIALLY true
given your own view of the product goals which you stated...
I like to let you know that we never have the goal to make a competition
to
This is a perfect example of why Linux is different, at least for audio,
than other OSs. In another OS you would have one huge application for
doing audio. Into this one big application you might drop plugins like
VST to provide an effect or instrument. The idea of having a jackbay like
jack is foreign to to these companies. That is something they feel should
be part of the OS... as it is not they are doing whatever they have to so
their product will work be cheap to support and make money. Can you
imagine supporting "hey your product doesn't see audio from product xyz,
whats wrong?". By making the whole thing in one application, they only
have to support one thing. So, IMO, Linux offers something Win/OSX can't
or won't ever. Linux allows having many small apps all work together to
fill out a whole studio. However, this is a big shift in workflow from
other OSs and can make it hard for someone to switch to Linux. (shrugs)
such is life. If someone wants the flexibility Linux audio offers... they
have to learn the tools. It is the difference between the old porta-studio
(I am dating myself I am sure), with built in mixer and tape for
multi-track recording and having a full studio of equipment. There is a
learning curve.
Audio is unique in this because it is real time stuff... that is the sound
source, effect, mixing, post-mix effect and recording can all be different
apps (in Linux) but all run at the same time. Other OSs don't really have
this (or want the hassle of support). Things like Ardour or Rosegarden,
(not an exhaustive list BTW) are a great starter for a new Linux user just
because they do so much in one program. The learning curve is therefore
limited to get started to just a few things :) (Len chuckles at this
understatement... but it is not any more of a learning curve than
switching from one win/OSx audio app to another) once anyone gets that
far, the learning curve to add just one more program outside the big app
is not that much... and once someone gets that far, I think they will
prefer Linux as a platform... even if they feel they have to use something
else for "real" work, they will be watching Linux to see when it "gets
there".
So those big "entry" apps are probably the most important tool we have as
Linux users/promoters to introduce new users to Linux. At the point there
are enough people using Linux (home or professional use doesn't really
matter) HW/SW companies will start worrying about Linux as a platform they
"have" to (think kicking and screaming) support "too" (they would
already
prefer to support OSX or Win but not both).
It does happen. ethernet cards used to only come with windows drivers...
then all of a sudden they started to come with Linux drivers... when is
the last time you found a NIC without Linux support?
--
Len Ovens
www.OvenWerks.net
windows or other OS's. We just like to
provide a OpenSource Tube
Amplifier
emulation.
Your software only provides one specific piece to the selection of guitar
FX software.
4 Sep
4 Sep
12:32 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 10:18 -0700, Len Ovens wrote:
On Mon, September 3, 2012 9:22 am, Thomas Vecchione
wrote:
Not really, AFAIK it's possible to run several independent apps on
Windows too. FWIW one of the guitar apps many people use on Windows is
IIRC this one: http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/GuitarRigWin/
I don't need much virtual effects and virtual synth, but for users that
need a lot of virtual gear, there's more available for Windows and Mac.
Regards,
Ralf
This isn't comparing Guitarix or Rakkarak to
specific pieces of software,
this is comparing the choices of software for a usage and variety of tools
on Linux to those on Windows or Mac. Guitarix or Rakarrak are just
examples of what exists on Linux, and while I don't use them, just because
they can't do everything that hundreds of pieces of software on Mac or
Windows do, doesn't mean they are incomplete. This is ESPECIALLY true
given your own view of the product goals which you stated...
I like to let you know that we never have the goal to make a competition
to
This is a perfect example of why Linux is different, at least for audio,
than other OSs. windows or other OS's. We just like to
provide a OpenSource Tube
Amplifier
emulation.
Your software only provides one specific piece to the selection of guitar
FX software.
5 Sep
5 Sep
7:01 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Mon, Sep 03, 2012 at 10:18:46AM -0700, Len Ovens wrote:
It does happen. ethernet cards used to only come with
windows drivers...
then all of a sudden they started to come with Linux drivers... when is
the last time you found a NIC without Linux support?
Do they come with Linux drivers on CD with the card? My experience is
that the drivers are bundled with the kernel and someone has done a lot
of reverse engineering to get a functional FOSS driver.
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
7:13 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Chris Bannister <cbannister(a)slingshot.co.nz
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2012 at 10:18:46AM -0700, Len Ovens
wrote:
not so much these days. most companies that make NICs now have their own
engineer or three dedicated to keeping the Linux driver for their chipset
in good shape. no real choice if you want to sell into the server market
and not face bad press about your hardware.
It does happen. ethernet cards used to only come
with windows drivers...
then all of a sudden they started to come with Linux drivers... when is
the last time you found a NIC without Linux support?
Do they come with Linux drivers on CD with the card? My experience is
that the drivers are bundled with the kernel and someone has done a lot
of reverse engineering to get a functional FOSS driver.
8:59 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Wed, September 5, 2012 9:53 am, Chris Bannister wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2012 at 10:18:46AM -0700, Len Ovens
wrote:
The last three NICs I bought had a Linux directory on the cd/floppy with
kernel drivers for the card. I suspect the card manufactures did not
create the drivers but just lifted them from the work already done for
free, but it was there. I did not have to use those drivers though as the
system I had just worked with the kernel I had. I can't say who did the
actual work or how... just that it seems NICs are no longer a problem...
perhaps networking is so important to computer work that there are more
FOSS devs willing to work on the drivers than there are for odd audio
devices.
--
Len Ovens
www.OvenWerks.net
It does happen. ethernet cards used to only come
with windows drivers...
then all of a sudden they started to come with Linux drivers... when is
the last time you found a NIC without Linux support?
Do they come with Linux drivers on CD with the card? My experience is
that the drivers are bundled with the kernel and someone has done a lot
of reverse engineering to get a functional FOSS driver.
4 Sep
4 Sep
12:48 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Tue, September 4, 2012 2:22 am, Thomas Vecchione wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 11:11 AM, hermann meyer
<brummer-(a)web.de> wrote:
Given Ralf consistency over the years at attempting to present the idea
out that Linux Audio is lacking in comparison to other audio platforms
especially the ones running on the OS's sold by M$ I have to agree with
Herman that it is most certainly implied.
Which imply that you miss a feature in guitarix
and/or Rakkarrack, or at
least think that they are incomplete. You wrote this here in a open
Mailing
List, but didn't think that it is worse to let the developers of those
tools know about that. And, o top of it, if you get ask directly what
you
missing, you wrote, "oh, nothing,. . "
For once, I have to stick up for Ralf. Simply put, it doesn't imply
anything.
Just because there is an option for something on
another OS doesn't mean
that I think that feature should be in every piece of software on Linux.
This isn't comparing Guitarix or Rakkarak to specific pieces of software,
this is comparing the choices of software for a usage and variety of tools
on Linux to those on Windows or Mac. Guitarix or Rakarrak are just
examples of what exists on Linux, and while I don't use them, just because
they can't do everything that hundreds of pieces of software on Mac or
Windows do, doesn't mean they are incomplete. This is ESPECIALLY true
given your own view of the product goals which you stated...
I like to let you know that we never have the goal to make a competition
to
And does a damn good job of it too. Considering that they release the
software for free and make regular updates to the codebase it's a very
sweet deal.
Guitarists I know may own a wide selection of fx but they almost always
only use a tiny fraction of their collection the majority of their work.
Guitarix and rackarack cut through all the crap and provide the tools that
are most useful for most situations.
windows or other OS's. We just like to
provide a OpenSource Tube
Amplifier
emulation.
Your software only provides one specific piece to the selection of guitar
FX software.
Just because I have an option of using a socket driver
and socket sets
doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with my combination wrenches.
In
the audio world this translates into, just because I have the option of
using EQ-A instead of EQ-B it doesn't necessarily mean I think either is
wrong. I can use LinuxDSP's Pultec EQ, instead of or with Harrison
Console's built in EQ on Mixbus, or I could use one of a half dozen
different other EQs instead of either, and depending on the material I
will
use multiple. But this level of choice still doesn't compare to the
literally hundreds of EQs available on Windows or Mac, but they do what I
need them to and I am perfectly happy with them.
You got really defensive against something that wasn't an attack on you or
your software in my opinion. Personally I don't even use either pieces of
software so I can't speak for how good or bad they are, but I read nothing
in Ralf's responses that said they were bad at all. Just that they don't
equate to the much larger selection of tools on other OSes.
I disagree. Ralfs language when he makes comparisons to options on other
platforms is consistently dismissive.
It's no wonder that many people on this list consider him to be a M$ troll
and he gets such a lot of negativity directed at him.
To put it more plainly, just in case there is any room for doubt, if Ralf
is not an M$ troll then he is doing a damn good job of coming across like
one.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
2:43 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com>wrote;wrote:
Given Ralf consistency over the years at attempting to
present the idea
out that Linux Audio is lacking in comparison to other audio platforms
especially the ones running on the OS's sold by M$ I have to agree with
Herman that it is most certainly implied.
And yet the response was to that one post. I am well aware of Ralf's
posting history, and yet I was more than capable of reading that post VERY
differently.
Sometimes our mind fills in the blanks like we want them to.
Seablade
7:01 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
Am 04.09.2012 02:43, schrieb Thomas Vecchione:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com <mailto:pshirkey@boosthardware.com>> wrote:
Given Ralf consistency over the years at attempting to present the
idea
out that Linux Audio is lacking in comparison to other audio platforms
especially the ones running on the OS's sold by M$ I have to agree
with
Herman that it is most certainly implied.
And yet the response was to that one post. I am well aware of Ralf's
posting history, and yet I was more than capable of reading that post
VERY differently.
Sometimes our mind fills in the blanks like we want them to.
And that is exactly were I'm talking about. I don't believe that Ralf is
a Troll, I think he is really a Linux lover.
Otherwise I wouldn't response to his post at all.
But to often he wrote in a style which leads to bad feelings for those
how do the work. Critic is mostly welcome, but it must be a bit
constructive, not only in a demotivate manner. To be honest, I cant
develop all the apps which be available for windows/MAC, simply because
I haven't the time (and haven't any interest in do so). Shut I give up
now, because I cant do enough? So were is the point in such comparisons?
Were is the point in such a statement?
I was absolutely able to interpret the post in the same way as you do,
but, that is only one side, there is also a other side which is were I
response to. As you said, words fit in a blank, they could interpreted
differently.
hermann
Seablade
9:48 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 07:01 +0200, hermann meyer wrote:
I cant develop all the apps which be available for
windows/MAC, simply
because I haven’t the time
The current Linux audio user base isn't missing all this Windows and Mac
apps. Yes, I'm missing some apps, but I anyway don't use Windows or
wineasio and others from this list sometimes connect Linux to a Windows
machine to get e.g. one special synth, but Linux does fit to our needs.
In contrast too Patrick I won't call software most of us don't need
"crap". We are a small user base, but out there are many other audio
users, with different needs. A huge market (hard not to quote Bill
Hicks ;)! Higher than the Linux audio market. Companies need to make
profit.
If we want companies to listen to us, the Linux user base must grow. The
Linux user base will grow if understanding Linux will become easier and
more different needs will be satisfied.
Regarding to the better support of the Linux community, compared to bad
support by proprietary software companies, I have to mention that there
are also Mac and Windows communities. For inexperienced users it's
easier to join such communities, because there's no
"self-responsibility" expected.
On the long term the concept off FLOSS is what mankind needs, because of
it's advantages, but at the moment we suffer from disadvantages
regarding to consume.
I don't think that beating the big drum for Linux will change much. IMO
socio-political changes are needed. In Europe the Pirate Party is for
"reform of copyright and patent law, free sharing of knowledge" -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party . A reformed society will
increase the Linux (audio) user base and base of coders too.
Regards,
Ralf
10:07 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On 09/04/2012 07:01 AM, hermann meyer wrote:
Am 04.09.2012 02:43, schrieb Thomas Vecchione:
+1 His mouth doesn't close but
more often than not it is not sheisse
coming out of it
Let's not be too sensitive ?
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com <mailto:pshirkey@boosthardware.com>> wrote:
Given Ralf consistency over the years at attempting to present the
idea
out that Linux Audio is lacking in comparison to other audio platforms
especially the ones running on the OS's sold by M$ I have to agree
with
Herman that it is most certainly implied.
And yet the response was to that one post. I am well aware of Ralf's
posting history, and yet I was more than capable of reading that post
VERY differently.
Sometimes our mind fills in the blanks like we want them to.
And that is exactly were I'm talking about. I don't believe that Ralf is
a Troll, I think he is really a Linux lover.
9:54 a.m.
New subject: OT: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 20:43 -0400, Thomas Vecchione wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
Given Ralf consistency over the years at attempting to present
the idea
out that Linux Audio is lacking in comparison to other audio
platforms
especially the ones running on the OS's sold by M$ I have to
agree with
Herman that it is most certainly implied.
And yet the response was to that one post. I am well aware of Ralf's
posting history, and yet I was more than capable of reading that post
VERY differently.
Sometimes our mind fills in the blanks like we want them to.
A misconception, I tend to prefer analog and stand alone digital and I
more often named "Atari" than Windows ;), which explains why I use Linux
and not Windows :p.
5:48 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:48 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Given Ralf consistency over the years at attempting to
present the idea
out that Linux Audio is lacking in comparison to other audio platforms
especially the ones running on the OS's sold by M$ I have to agree with
Herman that it is most certainly implied.
Sure, how could it possibly be lacking, if we have half a dozen of
competing session management frameworks? After all, isn't competition
the key to prosperity? :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
9:54 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On 09/03/2012 05:11 PM, hermann meyer wrote:
<snip>
Indeed, here I agree with you.
I was having
beers this weekend with one of the lead Native Instruments
Guitar Rig developers and the impression I got ( when raising the topic
of Linux support) was they do not have enough manpower to contend with
all of the different flavours and distributions out there. They are
pretty scared off really. I suggested that they pick a platform as the
lowest common denominator (Debian perhaps - even though redhat is my
preference) and focus on the app being Jack aware. They are already so
confounded with trying to support all the different flavours of Windows
and Mac OSes.
Surprisingly enough, this dude had no awareness of guitarix. I changed
that I hope.
Realistically though, I'm not sure how we can mitigate the situation.
I'm a full advocate of everything opensource, but we should also make it
easier for commercial products to be used. It can only help us in the
long run
2:52 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On 04/09/12 09:54, Brendan Jones wrote:
...
I was having beers this weekend with one of the lead
Native
Instruments Guitar Rig developers and the impression I got ( when
raising the topic of Linux support) was they do not have enough
manpower to contend with all of the different flavours and
distributions out there.
...
Realistically though, I'm not sure how we can
mitigate the situation.
Well you should have got him another couple of beers and had him sign an
non-revocable commitment statement to release all their stuff open
source and upload it to git hub, of course. :)
5 Sep
5 Sep
8:54 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On 09/04/2012 02:52 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
On 04/09/12 09:54, Brendan Jones wrote:
...
Ha ha - of course - why didn't I think of that :P
One thing he did say is that all of the NI apps use a common audio and
UI framework. So getting one to work should mean the rest should follow.
But alas, its not even on the radar - I will keep checking in though.
I was having beers this weekend with one of the
lead Native
Instruments Guitar Rig developers and the impression I got ( when
raising the topic of Linux support) was they do not have enough
manpower to contend with all of the different flavours and
distributions out there.
...
Realistically though, I'm not sure how we can
mitigate the situation.
Well you should have got him another couple of beers and had him sign an
non-revocable commitment statement to release all their stuff open
source and upload it to git hub, of course. :)
4 Sep
4 Sep
2:58 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Brendan Jones
I was having beers this weekend with one of the lead
Native Instruments
Guitar Rig developers and the impression I got ( when raising the topic of
Linux support) was they do not have enough manpower to contend with all of
the different flavours and distributions out there. They are pretty scared
off really.
Realistically people who always wanted to use Linux, but couldn't
(because of lacking software), would embrace any distro that NI
supports. End of problem :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
3:41 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Realistically people who always wanted to use Linux,
but couldn't
(because of lacking software), would embrace any distro that NI
supports. End of problem :)
I think it's copout to say "too many distros to support". A lot of
binary-only software is distributed in a distro-agnostic way, like
Lilypond and Ardour. Same for commercial software. If they test on the
major distros like Ubuntu (and derviatives), Debian, Red Hat/CentOS &
Fedora, maybe Arch & Gentoo, it will more likely than not run on other
distros as well.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
4:58 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Brett McCoy <idragosani(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
and more to the point, firefox and google chrome.
Realistically people who always wanted to use
Linux, but couldn't
(because of lacking software), would embrace any distro that NI
supports. End of problem :)
I think it's copout to say "too many distros to support". A lot of
binary-only software is distributed in a distro-agnostic way, like
Lilypond and Ardour.
5:04 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Brett McCoy <idragosani(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, exactly.
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
and more to the point, firefox and google chrome. Realistically people who always wanted to use
Linux, but couldn't
(because of lacking software), would embrace any distro that NI
supports. End of problem :)
I think it's copout to say "too many distros to support". A lot of
binary-only software is distributed in a distro-agnostic way, like
Lilypond and Ardour. 
5 Sep
5 Sep
12:32 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
I don't know.
There is also UAD, Waves etc. that are being used in the pro market.
So the End Of Problem statement could be a little early:)
Best Regards,
Moshe
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Brendan Jones
I was having beers this weekend with one of the
lead Native Instruments
Guitar Rig developers and the impression I got ( when raising the topic
of
Linux support) was they do not have enough
manpower to contend with all
of
the different flavours and distributions out
there. They are pretty
scared
off really.
Realistically people who always wanted to use Linux, but couldn't
(because of lacking software), would embrace any distro that NI
supports. End of problem :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
1:55 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Moshe Werner <moshwe(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know.
There is also UAD, Waves etc. that are being used in the pro market.
So the End Of Problem statement could be a little early:)
I was quite specific about EOP. End of problem for NI, Moshe :)
There's no need to see my statement in a more general way :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
1 Sep
1 Sep
6:52 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:21 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 14:02 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
A substantial minority with a growing global presence. The Linux and open
source world is not for everyone. Nothing wrong with that, but the idea
that there is no market is completely wrong. It's just an untapped market
almost entirely due to years of concerted effort to lock us out of the
mainstream conversation.
There are companies that explicitly tell their publishers what to write
and who to advertise. They spend a lot of money on a continuous mass
marketing campaign. Considering that we have been shut out of the global
debate for so many years we are making a significant amount of progress to
the point where all the major movie production houses run on Linux these
days. In fact after seeing the products that are on display at the recent
trade shows it appears that a lot of them are already using Linux and are
just keeping quiet about it. Probably because they don't want to rock the
boat with the publishers of most mainstream media who are torn between
taking money from their cash cows and covering the industry in detail.
If valve is prepared to port Steam to Linux native then NI shouldn't be
concerned about releasing their already working software.
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/
BTW, it's ironic that Native Instruments doesn't run natively on Linux...
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Go to an AV trade show, look at the software and
hardware solutions
that are being presented and tell me if there is anything that you
cannot find a solution for in the Linux toolset.
The professional:
"And now I need to use my Antares Auto-Tune or a Linux equivalent that
allows a similar workflow, to finish my Katey Perry production. I'll
call Patrick to explain me, how I can use it with Ardour on the Linux
machine he present me." ;)
The amateur:
"What distro should I use, what version? What printer should I buy? Why
can't I use my RME card, completely with a GUI, but need to use ALSA
mixer? Why do I have to act on my own responsibility? If I ask the
community how to get the perfect loudness-war mix, why do they call me a
troll and send links to Bob Katz?"
We Linux audio users are a minority.
6:02 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 04:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Talk to
http://www.studio-presse.de/2.0.html
too.
IOW, don't send a statistic to Fritz Fey, but present him a well tuned
Linux PC, completely, with all the needed RME gear etc., so that he can
test it in his studio. Also pay for advertising in his magazine, at the
same time you present him this computer. At the same time do the same
for important, well known professional studios and important magazines
for professionals all over the world.
Only companies can do this, but Linux isn't a company.
If you send a statistic, that millions of people use Linux audio and the
magazine guys do ten phone calls, but nobody is using Linux audio from
the people they called, then ...? Take an educated guess.
6:28 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:01 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 04:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
Linux Audio has a community. Each one of us has the ability to provide
services and support within our own local region.
Talk to
http://www.studio-presse.de/2.0.html
too.
IOW, don't send a statistic to Fritz Fey, but present him a well tuned
Linux PC, completely, with all the needed RME gear etc., so that he can
test it in his studio. Also pay for advertising in his magazine, at the
same time you present him this computer. At the same time do the same
for important, well known professional studios and important magazines
for professionals all over the world.
Only companies can do this, but Linux isn't a company.
If you send a statistic, that millions of people use
Linux audio and the
magazine guys do ten phone calls, but nobody is using Linux audio from
the people they called, then ...? Take an educated guess.
That's where you are in the position to provide that service. We are doing
it over here in Oz. There is no reason you cannot do it in <your
city/country of residence> too. Just pick a target and initiate a
conversation. Offer your services and you'll be surprised at who is
interested in taking you up on your offer. The more you do it the easier
it becomes.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
6:56 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 14:28 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:01 pm, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
Fritz Fey is around the corner. I could take my computer and walk to the
Studio Magazine test studio and ask if they like to test Linux.
[spinymouse@archlinux ~]$ hdspconf
No Hammerfall DSP card found.
[spinymouse@archlinux ~]$ hdspmixer
Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20
Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21
1 RME cards card found.
Restoring last presets used
They couldn't use a mouse to set up the audio card.
Do you guess an audio engineer from the shark pool will investigate to
use some terminal stuff or ask for support for something that already is
borked for the basics, regarding to professional needs?
Beyond that my machine has a lot of additional issues. It's ok for me,
I'm not a full time professional audio and video engineer anymore. I
play with the penguins only. But you want to play with the sharks.
If I could help, I would do, but I can't help, my machine does not fit
to professional needs.
I know amateurs, they tested Linux, for them it's too hard, if they
can't use their discounter printer with Linux. I can't help them.
It's a catch-22 situation.
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 04:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
Linux Audio has a community. Each one of us has the ability to provide
services and support within our own local region.
Talk to
http://www.studio-presse.de/2.0.html
too.
IOW, don't send a statistic to Fritz Fey, but present him a well tuned
Linux PC, completely, with all the needed RME gear etc., so that he can
test it in his studio. Also pay for advertising in his magazine, at the
same time you present him this computer. At the same time do the same
for important, well known professional studios and important magazines
for professionals all over the world.
Only companies can do this, but Linux isn't a company.
If you send a statistic, that millions of people
use Linux audio and the
magazine guys do ten phone calls, but nobody is using Linux audio from
the people they called, then ...? Take an educated guess.
That's where you are in the position to provide that service. We are doing
it over here in Oz. There is no reason you cannot do it in <your
city/country of residence> too. Just pick a target and initiate a
conversation. Offer your services and you'll be surprised at who is
interested in taking you up on your offer. The more you do it the easier
it becomes.
7:29 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:56 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 14:28 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Clearly a bug or a setup configuration issue. Have you asked anyone for
assistance? Please open a new thread if you want to pursue this as it
doesn't need to hijack this conversation.
On Sat, September 1, 2012 2:01 pm, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
Fritz Fey is around the corner. I could take my computer and walk to the
Studio Magazine test studio and ask if they like to test Linux.
[spinymouse@archlinux ~]$ hdspconf
No Hammerfall DSP card found.
[spinymouse@archlinux ~]$ hdspmixer
Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20
Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21
1 RME cards card found.
Restoring last presets used
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 04:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
can
Talk to
http://www.studio-presse.de/2.0.html
too.
IOW, don't send a statistic to Fritz Fey, but present him a well tuned
Linux PC, completely, with all the needed RME gear etc., so that he test it in his studio. Also pay for advertising
in his magazine, at
the
same time you present him this computer. At the
same time do the same
for important, well known professional studios and important magazines
for professionals all over the world.
Only companies can do this, but Linux isn't a company.
Linux Audio has a community. Each one of us has the ability to provide
services and support within our own local region.
If you send a statistic, that millions of people
use Linux audio and
the
magazine guys do ten phone calls, but nobody is
using Linux audio from
the people they called, then ...? Take an educated guess.
That's where you are in the position to provide that service. We are
doing
it over here in Oz. There is no reason you cannot do it in <your
city/country of residence> too. Just pick a target and initiate a
conversation. Offer your services and you'll be surprised at who is
interested in taking you up on your offer. The more you do it the easier
it becomes. They couldn't use a mouse to set up the audio
card.
Do you guess an audio engineer from the shark pool will investigate to
use some terminal stuff or ask for support for something that already is
borked for the basics, regarding to professional needs?
Pretty much every professional engineer I've ever met loves getting stuck
in and learning something new. Knowing that they could just call you up
for advice because you are just down the road will make them even more
confident.
Beyond that my machine has a lot of additional issues.
It's ok for me,
I'm not a full time professional audio and video engineer anymore. I
play with the penguins only. But you want to play with the sharks.
Maybe I am a shark ;-P
If I could help, I would do, but I can't help, my
machine does not fit
to professional needs.
If you had serious interest from Fritz I will bet that there will be at
least 10 people who will offer to travel to your location for the weekend
to help you setup and install a new high end system. Seems to me that the
confidence is your own issue that you are projecting onto your potential
client. Remember the fear of being successful can be a huge barrier to
achievement.
I know amateurs, they tested Linux, for them it's
too hard, if they
can't use their discounter printer with Linux. I can't help them.
It's a catch-22 situation.
High end users are prepared to buy a new printer if the machine you
provide allows them to achieve their wildest fantasies. If it's really a
serious problem then you can just specify the right printer for them to
purchase or include it as an optional add on. I don't have problems with
HP printers on Linux these days and Epsom are pretty good too.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
7:51 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:29 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Clearly a bug or a setup configuration issue. Have you
asked anyone for
assistance? Please open a new thread if you want to pursue this as it
doesn't need to hijack this conversation.
No there is no bug or bad configuration, the RME HDSPe AIO isn't
completely supported by Linux. It's a PCIe card.
RME doesn't support Linux! They tolerate Linux and they aren't
completely Linux unfriendly, but they don't really care about Linux.
Even they don't care. Try to convince RME first and then Motu and
then ...
8:01 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 3:50 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:29 +1000, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
When they released that card they said it would never have any linux
support so clearly they have made some progress.
Clearly a bug or a setup configuration issue.
Have you asked anyone for
assistance? Please open a new thread if you want to pursue this as it
doesn't need to hijack this conversation.
No there is no bug or bad configuration, the RME HDSPe AIO isn't
completely supported by Linux. It's a PCIe card.
RME doesn't support Linux! They tolerate Linux and
they aren't
completely Linux unfriendly, but they don't really care about Linux.
Even they don't care. Try to convince RME first and then Motu and
then ...
They will care when they see how large the real market is. Getting the
statistics on that first requires a concerted effort but it is in
everyones interests because it reinforces the credibility of the platform
and provides sales incentive to companies that are sitting on the fence.
What they want to know is how many people can I sell to and how much is it
going to cost me to provide them a product/service. Once they have those
tow statistics they can make an informed decision about the revenue
potential.
We can provide them the first part of the equation. They can figure out
the rest.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
9:46 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 16:01 +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Sat, September 1, 2012 3:50 pm, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
IIRC someone from this list has written the driver, not RME.
However, your intension is good and if possible everybody, including me,
will contribute, so I won't argue anymore against your effort :).
Regards,
Ralf
On Sat, 2012-09-01 at 15:29 +1000, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
When they released that card they said it would never have any linux
support so clearly they have made some progress. Clearly a bug or a setup configuration issue.
Have you asked anyone for
assistance? Please open a new thread if you want to pursue this as it
doesn't need to hijack this conversation.
No there is no bug or bad configuration, the RME HDSPe AIO isn't
completely supported by Linux. It's a PCIe card.
5:59 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
wrote:
For example people who use firefox or chrome would be a good start. They
are most likely the ones who will also be using Linux Audio Tools.
patrick, if you haven't noted, firefox and chrome are cross-platform tools.
perhaps you mean the number of people who use those tools on linux ... if
so, here are some numbers from ardour.org:
Rank Requests Pages OS
1 1064670 50842 Windows
2 1008038 23804 Unix
1001554 23713 Linux
5482 77 BSD
696 10 Other Unix
306 4 SunOS
3 3106311 5647 OS unknown
4 476795 14399 Macintosh
5 51448 8052 Known robots
6 14 14 OS/2
7 1862 11 Symbian OS
if you were to use this, you'd note that even on a site about a DAW that
doesn't run on Windows, (apparent) Windows users outnumber Linux users by
more than 2:1. of course, this statistic has all kinds of flaws and
caveats, but the point is that the data that is available to companies such
as NI strongly argues against supporting Linux. if you have real data that
would convince such companies that their existing decisions are wrong, then
please do share it.
Another example, Behringer ships Audacity with every single product they
sell. Clearly the global market leader for audio
production hardware sees
some value in open source too.
for the N-th time, open source is *not* Linux. Audacity is popular because
it is a powerful, useful, cross-platform tool. Linux has (probably) very
little to do with it.
6:25 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 1:59 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
What this tells me is that the perception that the Linux userbase is
almost non existent is seriously flawed to the point where even people
running windows are so interested in the software they outnumber the
target audience by 2:1
It also tells me that there is a very real userbase for ardour in the
Linux community substantially more than non existant. If even a small
number of them were interested in purchasing NI products they would be
making enough profit to justify a dedicated support resource.
Combine that with the users of LS, qtractor, muse, rosegarden, energy XT,
etc... and there is a large enough community to completely blow away any
discussion of not being able to make a profit. As the community is
growing that just makes it even more profitable.
And all this is done with no mainstream media coverage, zero glossy
advertising, trade show appearances at a minimum. It's pretty much just
hard graft from a few dedicated and motivated individuals.
There is nothing in these stats that even remotely says the opposite of
the Linux Audio community is worth serious investment by serious audio
companies.
If NI wanted to add an additional 100k customers to its sales targets this
is a no brainer. Certainly they would get more bang for their buck than
any mass marketing campaign will give them.
We could take it further and extrapolate the amount of customers that
Harrison receives from the ardour userbase too.
wrote:
For example people who use firefox or chrome would be a good start. They
are most likely the ones who will also be using Linux Audio Tools.
patrick, if you haven't noted, firefox and chrome are cross-platform
tools.
perhaps you mean the number of people who use those tools on linux ... if
so, here are some numbers from ardour.org:
Rank Requests Pages OS
1 1064670 50842 Windows
2 1008038 23804 Unix
1001554 23713 Linux
5482 77 BSD
696 10 Other Unix
306 4 SunOS
3 3106311 5647 OS unknown
4 476795 14399 Macintosh
5 51448 8052 Known robots
6 14 14 OS/2
7 1862 11 Symbian OS
if you were to use this, you'd note that even on a site about a DAW that
doesn't run on Windows, (apparent) Windows users outnumber Linux users by
more than 2:1. of course, this statistic has all kinds of flaws and
caveats, but the point is that the data that is available to companies
such
as NI strongly argues against supporting Linux. if you have real data that
would convince such companies that their existing decisions are wrong,
then
please do share it.
Another example, Behringer ships Audacity with every
single product they
Audacity is a "stepping stone" or bridge product that gives consumers and
amateurs the freedom to transition to Linux without the fear of not being
able to use their work on other platforms. The fact that it runs on all
major platforms gives people the reason to check out Linux. If Behringer
also shipped a bootable disk that would blow everything out of the water
and reset the game.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
sell. Clearly the global market leader for audio
production hardware
sees
some value in open source too.
for the N-th time, open source is *not* Linux. Audacity is popular because
it is a powerful, useful, cross-platform tool. Linux has (probably) very
little to do with it.
7:23 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
Audacity is a "stepping stone" or bridge
product that gives consumers and
amateurs the freedom to transition to Linux without the fear of not being
able to use their work on other platforms.
Good point! But why should those users switch? You don't need to win
over me, you need to win over people that are satisfied and conditioned
like Pavlov's Dog.
I like your effort Don Quixote. This isn't meant ironically/as insult,
your effort is good. Hopefully you don't expect too much positive
results.
Regards,
Ralf
If Behringer also shipped a bootable disk that would
blow everything out of the water
and reset the game.
A bootable disk with what Linux? Hard words: This would cause too much
additional useless special waste.
8:14 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kontakt sampler format (and others like EXS24)
On Sat, September 1, 2012 3:23 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
You seem to think that I am doing this on my own for some reason.
They are shipping the marketing gimmicks anyway. A bunch of Linux DVD's is
not going to make a squat of difference to the global pile of mess that we
have already and are continuing to make.
Do you have any idea how many DVD's Sony prints every single day?
What about all the copies being distributed in the streets across Asia?
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Audacity is a "stepping stone" or
bridge product that gives consumers
and
amateurs the freedom to transition to Linux without the fear of not
being
able to use their work on other platforms.
Good point! But why should those users switch? You don't need to win
over me, you need to win over people that are satisfied and conditioned
like Pavlov's Dog.
I like your effort Don Quixote. This isn't meant ironically/as insult,
your effort is good. Hopefully you don't expect too much positive
results.
If Behringer also shipped a bootable disk that
would blow everything out
of the water
and reset the game.
A bootable disk with what Linux? Hard words: This would cause too much
additional useless special waste.
4254
days inactive
4258
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
81 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
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Alexandre Prokoudine -
Brendan Jones -
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Chris Bannister -
Emanuel Rumpf -
hermann meyer -
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Moshe Werner -
Nils -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf -
Robin Gareus -
Simon Wise -
SxDx -
Thomas Vecchione