tim hall wrote: Gawd....didnt this topic go to hell in a handbasket quickly! Hmmm...come to think of it, much like many one hit wonder rock bands! "muddying the waters" comes to mind?? Oh well, having had my share of all of the above and being reduced to nothing more than a weekend warrior at best anymore, what do I know or care...I just worked 36 hrs straight on my day / night gig for "the man"...but I can buy lots more gitfiddles, amps and linux boxes!!! and pay the mortgage, and utilites and car payments and insurance and kids clothes and food and water n taxes and......crap!!! Where's the bloody drugs n groopies!!!! R~

R Parker wrote: Actually, Unless I misread you (and given the sleep still in my eyes that's entirely possible) I did not make this statement; " I have yet to meet a musician worth listening to who's in it for the money." And for the record, I couldnt disagree with it more! I used to hold attitudes such as this and my father, a musican in Australia for some 45 yrs now, of no particular notoriety or fame, is still slogging the dives, bars, clubs, traps playing to beer swilling dumb$hit punters who could not care less if he is struck by lightening on stage at the tender age of 65, playing solo guitar with a drum machine, some midi, whatever. I used to believe that there was an achiveable goal called perfection. I used to argue with him that if it wasnt "note perfect" that it should not be played "incorrectly". THis of course on covers. He used to respond "While you and your anal "note perfect" buddies spend all those hours behind locked doors, I get to go and play, have some fun and earn some cash...I'm out there doing it!!" As my teeth get longer I found compromise in not only these line items but many others in life that did not cause me to go into artistic idealistic convulsions. I do NOT and NEVER will subscribe to mediocraty in ANY shape or form but rather, that the individual playing, performing, singing has done their level best to do their best...(I find I have to mentor my 5 yr old son in this way) not how it stacks up in the mainstream! That task, thankfully for me, belongs to producers, talent scouts and that dickhead on American Idol! As for the rest of your "rant", you lost me! :) I find your mastery of the english language far beyond my simple mind in depth and breadth! I don't have much to say in terms of your perspective. I found it very interesting though! But I do want to say this: Me Righteous??? Now THAT's funny!!! (meant totally without malice) My statement "muddying the waters" was actually more a chilidish jab at Tim for the same statement he made toward me for some twisted diatribe I used in a previous thread regarding "software devs, what makes 'em tic" If only you knew!!! My past has more skeletons in it's closet than a medical teaching lab! I strive to try and be a good father and husband...and even fail miserably at that most times! But for the grace of my God, go I and fortunatley, he has an excellent sense of humor when it comes to me it seems! I certainly did not intend to come off being righteous or anything remotley like it. I seem to lack social skills at the best of times on this list in the best case, would prolly be better served keeping my damn mouth shut...but the luxurious thing about Western civilised culture is that the "send" button is not behind barbed wire. And I, like most, like to comment even if it comes out less than socially acceptable, politically correct, in tone, tune, sync, on topic, etc. (you get the idea I'm sure). Mostly because I, like other "artists" often like the sound of my own voice even if born by stupid ego! What I need is a good "bullshit" checker before I hit the "send" button! :) To the end of anyone taking opportunity to forge a living from this art or any other, If I have one issue with this it is nothing more than jeleousy! It is something that I (A) Tried, (B) failed at and (C) at least know I gave it a good swing! My head was far more tuned to Good Aussie beer, and specific parts of the female anatomy to be focused clearly on good art! And as to my ability, I'll make that clear now...I'm nothing more than a picker that was blessed with a keen abilty to fake it, and some motor skills and less than harnessed musical discipline and a large enough set of balls to go out there and put my heart on my sleeve as it were. I guess 30 yrs of doinf that helps too? I got to the great USA and there are kids walking the street that can run rings around my musical abilities let alone dedicated musicians that have actually sacrificed for the sake of their art. I'm barely a spec of fly$hit in terms of what I contribute musically to the common pool! But I have taken the Linux audio world to heart...I play gigs still and I get this Linux Audio stuff in front of a LOT of ppl. Oddly enuf (I work for a lrage network) there are a LOT of musicians in Telecom. Running a PC for fx and such is a cumbersome pain! But I keep it there for a reason! And it keeps my hand in the game at least at some level. I can ask for no more than that at this time in my life. I have at least begun to write some simple accoustic based instrumental stuff that is rougher than shit but yet recorded soley on Linux and that everyone I have had the balls to play it to seems to genuinely like. Wow...I talk TOO much! lol! If nothing else, I respect the crap out of what you appear to have achieved Ron. You have stuck with Linux and have assisted in making Ardour credible by keeping it out there in commercial view. I hope one day, we DO get to jam, we progress past the "my chops is better than yours" bit fast and get down to jammin up a storm just cause we can. Good, bad or indifferent, I DO love to pick!!!! it is at the core of my being...I tried Or she) to change that once to only find out it was impossible. R~ P.S. The "drugs n groopies" reference was not a "stick my finger in someones eye" ! it was more like a "Gee, I wish I was on the road again flashback! Sometimes responsibility gets old!" But I recall most of the "groopies" were really UGLY~ and "drugs are bad M'kay"! This is my personal experience! YMMV~

R Parker wrote: Well I sort of figured you were but I have drawn the wrath on many on previous occasions & been oblivious to the fact! (Prolly a product of the worst combo; arrogance coupled with ignorance). I thought I'd at least tippy toe (Gawd, I been working in San Francisco too long) thru the murky waters first! :) Tom Hall? Willy (smoke it if ya got it) Nelson?? Johnny Cash??? (God rest his troubled soul) lmao!! Not that I don't love those guys...Gitfiddle players like Willy leave guys like me a lot of scope! :) Personal taste aside, huge song writing abilties though! Just another part of the "record"; I grew up wearing out 461 Ocean Boulevard. I listened to every album the Amazing Rythym Aces wrote and I played in a Country Rawk band in Aus that played mostly AMA tunes...No one new what the hell they were except for "Third Rate romance". I also played in a traditional Celtic band both acoustic and a Rawked up version. I love Albert Lee thru Leo Kottke to Al Dimeola and John McLaughlin! (Those guys just make my mind boggle) Jeff Beck was not the the "front man" for BECK and Jethro Tull is not referred to as "He" in my house! :) Pink Floyd helped get me laid and Mark Kernop-fler was one of the most inspring players I ever heard! (Yes, I'm a Strat and Tele guy) not to mention he's not too shabby-er engineer producer! I miss Chet and an Aussie Guy named Tommy Emanuel is also another insanley capable picker I love to watch as much as hear! I listened to Machine Head the other day in my car wondering what the hell Blackmore does these days? I saw a guy Named Franko Marone in Grass Valley in a small theatre...(Italian guy picking Celtic tunes on a Taylor) and he made an otherwise quiet audience participant stand on his seat and scream for more!! The only new bands I've heard I like in the last 5 yrs I like are MatchBox 20 and 3 Doors Down! I like BOTH kinds of Muzic...Country & Western! And obviously the Blues Brothers is a movie that I have watched at least 20 times! Oh...and I HAVE performed behind Chiken wire before! And Aussie music (as I have lived in the USA for nearlly 16 yrs now) consists of so much more than INXS (They need butt raped by Simon from American Idol AFAIC...actually, maybe Steve Irwin is a better choice for that job!!) for doing this "REALITY TV" commercial gig..., Midnight Oil and Little River Band. And it never broke our heart when AC DC or Air Supply left! Alhtough I still like some of the Old unadulterated "big guitars" rock of AC DC. Oh....and Puice is my favorite color! Do I get the gig?? My amp goes up to "eleven" :) (but it's only 32 watts Class A....Tubes of course...because theres NO other kind!!) oops! EL34's n 6L6's rawk doood! I'm sorry...it's time for my Ridilin! :) R~

tim hall wrote: Agree. In fact I think it is better to earn a living doing something else (any day job would do) and leave the need to make music and express ourself to the time other people use to watch TV and play videogames. Wait a minute... I'm talking like my father! But this is also what experience told me. Nobody ever talk about this topics pointing out that bad music is also a kind of pollution. It is a mental and heart and soul pollution. Bad music is music made just to make money, not because someone is earning a lot of money, but because of the whole media landscape, that pushes its junk inside our heads. Thanks, c.

Cesare offered the following on 09/09/2005 08:00 PM: How about specifics? There's a system out there, that says, get signed by a major record label, and you get rich. How about an Open Source plan, one with clear steps to follow? Sell 20,000 CDs and get 50% of the USD$10 price/CD, and we're earning USD$100,000 a year, just from CD sales. But, how do we do that? Specifically!? First step: Our mindset has to be just right. Think of all the singer/songwriter/musician types in the world that have no idea how to turn on a computer, let alone record their own stuff on their own recording studio that cost them peanuts, even free, if they're broke, like me. I have one. Realize that we list members are miles ahead of the game, and get going. Next step: We can't sell those 20,000 CDs, if we don't offer them to listeners. Get our online store running now. If we have no money, then use an online store that will front all the costs up front. They'll package our CD song file(s), print our CD covers, inserts, and put it in a case, send it out, provide the merchant account so people can pay with credit card online, and we spend nothing out-of-pocket. www.cafepress.com is a good starting point. Look around, and get your music packaged for purchase. Who buys one song on a CD, and a work in progress at that? Our mothers, for one. She'll also be buying a shirt, hat, mug, and all the other standard gear. Oh, and she'll buy a lot of the personalized postage stamps. . . did you know you can sell your personal postage stamps? Next step: Follow the licensing that Tim and Russell and Cesare talk about. It sits on top of your copyright, specifically to open up extra protection on the Internet, and make our dreams come true. Once all that's done, it's done. From then on, just a matter of updating, improving, and marketing/communicating. Twenty years from now, we're doing whatever we're doing, and the steps taken are still brand new and interesting to future listeners. In other words, our music CDs are for purchase by listeners, just as they were twenty years ago. Ten Mile Tide band put some of their songs on the P2P circuit, and six months later, all members of the band were able to quit their day jobs. It didn't happen, until they acted. They didn't wait for the perfect song, they just did it. It works. If you need a cheerleader, help getting your store, internet strategy up and running, let us know. All our services are free. Tom -- Open Studios, Charles City, Iowa, USA www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/

HI All Didnt this jangle some nerves!! We seem confused as to what is worthy music or not. You can play covers in a band and even record them yourselves (Yes I have had to engineer these session!) you may enjoy this. Give me two bars of originality and I'm all yours! As the whole industry is pushed into giving its customers real choice there will be many changes. All original music has merit, we may not like it or buy it, but it's still worthy of a place. If you 'enjoy' the process of making music, then you simply walk with the Gods. cheers Bob Talk less Hear More R Parker wrote: